Do you want to discuss boring politics? (13 Viewers)

shmmeee · Jan 14, 2021

fernandopartridge said:
Pandering to a generation declining in numbers who, given the choice of two parties promising to be tough on public spending, will vote tory anyway is delusional. Its almost as if 2015 (after a terrible 5 year coalition of rocket fuelled austerity) didn't happen. Might as well just give up tbh as fiddling around the edges as new Labour did just won't be enough.

It’s not a generational divide, it’s an educational one masquerading as a generational issue one thanks to the expansion of education. And the degree educated middle classes aren’t spread around the country in the right way to win votes. You need the shires or the post industrial towns too.

Right wing vote increases with asset ownership which is linked to age, and socially conservative views, which by definition are linked to age. So that isn’t going to change even if house prices have pushed the turnover age higher, there’s a limit on them linked to wages. So the general demographics aren't going to change. We aren't the states pulling in loads of young progressive immigrants.

You either go full Lib Dem and marry right wing economics with social liberalism, picking up everyone from Boris Johnson to Layla Moran. Or you go UKIP lite and have left wing economics and social conservatism. Farage to Corbyn. Personally, the clue is in the name and Labour should be for left wing worker focused economics, but I get that for some people the social liberalism is more important. Personally I think if you sort the economics, the social stuff comes with it.

Deleted member 5849 · Jan 20, 2021

Ian1779 · Jan 20, 2021

Deleted member 5849 said:

What’s just as concerning (aside from the vote) is the language some journalists use when reporting things like this... is narrowly avoiding really the term that is sensible here?
Just like when Phil Spector died last week the BBC said he was ‘flawed’ rather than the fact he was a murderer.

Deleted member 5849 · Jan 20, 2021

Ian1779 said:
What’s just as concerning (aside from the vote) is the language some journalists use when reporting things like this... is narrowly avoiding really the term that is sensible here?
Just like when Phil Spector died last week the BBC said he was ‘flawed’ rather than the fact he was a murderer.

Tell you what, when Iain Duncan Smith and David Davis are on the side of the good guys, that tells you something...

Grendel · Jan 20, 2021

Deleted member 5849 said:
Tell you what, when Iain Duncan Smith and David Davis are on the side of the good guys, that tells you something...

Stopping trading with China would be marvellous I’m sure for the economy

shmmeee · Jan 20, 2021

Grendel said:
Stopping trading with China would be marvellous I’m sure for the economy

But of a push to call what the Chinese are doing genocide. At best it hits one component in birth rate suppression but even that’s disputed.

Grendel · Jan 20, 2021

shmmeee said:
But of a push to call what the Chinese are doing genocide. At best it hits one component in birth rate suppression but even that’s disputed.

I thought Biden had accused them of it against the Uighers or whatever they are called?

shmmeee · Jan 20, 2021

Grendel said:
I thought Biden had accused them of it against the Uighers or whatever they are called?

Biden says a lot of shit. I mean that’s the bigger issue with the amendment. It’s total virtue signalling and completely unenforceable. Who decides what genocide even is and who exactly is committing it? And even then it just makes the U.K. break it’s commitments.

Grendel · Jan 20, 2021

shmmeee said:
Biden says a lot of shit. I mean that’s the bigger issue with the amendment. It’s total virtue signalling and completely unenforceable. Who decides what genocide even is and who exactly is committing it? And even then it just makes the U.K. break it’s commitments.

When people go to “re education” camps - China freely admit they do - I don’t think they are studying algebra

shmmeee · Jan 20, 2021

Grendel said:
When people go to “re education” camps - China freely admit they do - I don’t think they are studying algebra

That’s not genocide though. Genocide is a specific crime against humanity that involves trying to erase a population through deaths and/or suppressing births.

What the Chinese are doing is more like cultural genocide if anything. That’s a line that runs from “free English lessons for immigrants” to what the Chinese are doing.

fernandopartridge · Jan 20, 2021

Grendel said:
Stopping trading with China would be marvellous I’m sure for the economy

It's trade deals not trade full stop

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Jan 20, 2021

Basically says " we give more of a shit about money than people".

If you're not a 'big' country than we'll come down on you like a ton of bricks. If you are - don't worry about - it's fine.

clint van damme · Jan 21, 2021

Gavin Williamson has been rinsed on the Beeb, Sky and ITV this morning.
He is the epitome of incompetence.

Where did we go wrong that this clown is in charge of our young people's education?

chiefdave · Jan 21, 2021

clint van damme said:
Gavin Williamson has been rinsed on the Beeb, Sky and ITV this morning.
He is the epitome of incompetence.

Where did we go wrong that this clown is in charge of our young people's education?

Did laugh that his suggestion that parents report schools if they aren't happy with the remote learning provision, despite schools being given zero time to prepare, has resulted in Ofsted recieving 260 complaints compared to 13,000 parents contact them to praise schools.

See we're back to claiming schools are safe.

Ian1779 · Jan 21, 2021

My prediction is no return to school before Easter.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Jan 28, 2021

I see Alexander has added more fuel to the independence fire by describing the independence debate as 'irrelevant'.

The clown doesn't understand these kind of jokey throwaway comments actually make a difference. It's just a game to him. I reckon he genuinely doesn't get that independence is an actual probability until the day when he wakes up one morning and realises they've voted to leave. Basically like Cameron treated Brexit.

CCFCSteve · Jan 28, 2021

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
I see Alexander has added more fuel to the independence fire by describing the independence debate as 'irrelevant'.

The clown doesn't understand these kind of jokey throwaway comments actually make a difference. It's just a game to him. I reckon he genuinely doesn't get that independence is an actual probability until the day when he wakes up one morning and realises they've voted to leave. Basically like Cameron treated Brexit.

I think he does take it seriously SBD, he just can’t control his gob ! Johnson needs to be careful what he says, I don’t think keeping the union together is a lost cause (I hope it isn’t) but he’s got to cut out these comments and focus on SNP performance, consider devolving additional powers (I don’t know what specific devolved powers they want) but most importantly how being part of UK has/can benefit Scotland (not just purely economic)

Cameron was a bit different, I think you’re right, he just never saw Brexit coming (probably a bit of arrogance and also being in that SE/Westminster bubble) and his ‘negotiations’ with the EU reflected that. Always said if he’d pushed harder and EU had given a bit (around freedom of movement - a tough give for the EU but only minor movement/perception of movement was needed), Remain wins comfortably

Grendel · Jan 28, 2021

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
I see Alexander has added more fuel to the independence fire by describing the independence debate as 'irrelevant'.

The clown doesn't understand these kind of jokey throwaway comments actually make a difference. It's just a game to him. I reckon he genuinely doesn't get that independence is an actual probability until the day when he wakes up one morning and realises they've voted to leave. Basically like Cameron treated Brexit.

Starmer said he’d refuse a referendum as well

They can’t leave without a Westminster approved election

chiefdave · Feb 2, 2021

Some people have got too much time on their hands in lockdown

shmmeee · Feb 2, 2021

God love you Labour left.

Deleted member 5849 · Feb 7, 2021

Ugh, a politicised health service.

Ugh.

shmmeee · Feb 7, 2021

Wait. Isn’t this going back on the last Tory reorganisation?

RedSalmon · Feb 7, 2021

shmmeee said:
Wait. Isn’t this going back on the last Tory reorganisation?

So long as they don't let Jeremy Hunt anywhere near it!!

clint van damme · Feb 7, 2021

RedSalmon said:
So long as they don't let Jeremy Hunt anywhere near it!!

The fact I can think of several worse is damning of the current government

Grendel · Feb 7, 2021

clint van damme said:
The fact I can think of several worse is damning of the current government

Most of whom I assume are in the Labour Party

clint van damme · Feb 7, 2021

Grendel said:
Most of whom I assume are in the Labour Party

They've not had chance to show whether they're ministerial calibre or not. The current government have and failed miserably.

Let's be honest, even if the shadow cabinet are just as useless but don't give out multi million and in some cases billion pound contracts to their cronies than that's an improvement.

Deleted member 5849 · Feb 7, 2021

Grendel said:
Most of whom I assume are in the Labour Party

Don't let mrtrench see you with this whataboutery, he'll have you down as a lefty Communist.

chiefdave · Feb 11, 2021

Saw this on twitter and assume it was an outlier but it seems not and the Conservatives are extending their lead over Labour with recent poll putting them 5 points ahead. Can't get my head around the fact that the government seem to be gaining increased support while Labour are falling back.

fernandopartridge · Feb 11, 2021

chiefdave said:
Saw this on twitter and assume it was an outlier but it seems not and the Conservatives are extending their lead over Labour with recent poll putting them 5 points ahead. Can't get my head around the fact that the government seem to be gaining increased support while Labour are falling back.

Because the vaccination programme is being reported on a par with the number of daily deaths / hundreds of deaths per day has become normalised

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Feb 11, 2021

chiefdave said:
Saw this on twitter and assume it was an outlier but it seems not and the Conservatives are extending their lead over Labour with recent poll putting them 5 points ahead. Can't get my head around the fact that the government seem to be gaining increased support while Labour are falling back.

Vaccine programme going well could be part of it. Stuff is quickly forgotten.

Most annoying thing for me at the moment is that it's not being called the NHS vaccination programme, but the shitfest of the Serco Test and Trace was constantly referred to as NHS Test and Trace.

shmmeee · Feb 11, 2021

chiefdave said:
Saw this on twitter and assume it was an outlier but it seems not and the Conservatives are extending their lead over Labour with recent poll putting them 5 points ahead. Can't get my head around the fact that the government seem to be gaining increased support while Labour are falling back.

Vaccine rollout is a massive success. Most voters have the attention span and memory of a hyperactive goldfish.

Don’t expect to see a dent in Tory support until lockdown is over.

Ian1779 · Feb 11, 2021

May elections will be interesting, especially in those areas that will feel they been hardest hit by Cov-ID, or most disadvantaged by the response to support them.

Grendel · Feb 11, 2021

Ian1779 said:
May elections will be interesting, especially in those areas that will feel they been hardest hit by Cov-ID, or most disadvantaged by the response to support them.

Irrelevant really

fernandopartridge · Feb 11, 2021

I reckon the May elections will see an even smaller turnout than usual tbh

shmmeee · Feb 12, 2021

Why we aren’t doing everything 100% postal voting I’ve no idea. Seems like a good chance to actually engage people and limit COVID.

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