Do you want to discuss boring politics? (17 Viewers)

[skybluetony176]

Cheers Keir

UK inflation rises at fastest rate for 40 years as food costs jump

Food, energy and fuel price rises help drive inflation up in May at its fastest pace since 1982.

www.bbc.co.uk

That and all them over inflated pay rises no one is getting.

 

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[shmmeee]

Did you watch Thornberry’s appearance on C4?

No. Do you now accept you’re in a tiny minority and that Labours position is the correct one for a party of govenrment?

 

[skybluetony176]

Looking at some of the headlines this morning after MSM and Tory MP’s spent most of yesterday trying to blame Starmer for the strikes (and all the other woe’s facing the country #imagineifboriswasincharge) the majority of the headlines today seem to be accusing Starmer of being a coward and having nothing to do with the strikes yesterday (which is accurate for MSM). However I think this is in response to the the opinion polls that show actually despite the Tories efforts and the efforts of their compliant press the public are in support of the industrial action not against. Expect a change in tact from both the press and Starmer today. Coupled with Lynch’s media performances yesterday I can see some U turns on the horizon and wouldn’t even put it past this populist government to get behind it and suddenly it turning out that it is the Secretary of State for Transports job to get involved in the mechanisms of the transport sectors to keep them moving.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

No it isn't, what RR failed to mention in their carefully scripted press leak (before briefing the workforce) is that they are also expecting the workforce to accept a 10% pay cut to make them "more competitive" this at a time when the C.E.O has awarded himself a £3 million Bonus!

The offer is 4% on the basic pay, plus a 2k one off payment. Then a 10% reduction!
Classic case of fake news.

In situations like this, you need to ask yourself why the C.E.O. has seen fit to release a confidential pay proposal to the press before its been discussed with the trade unions or the workers.
There is always far more to the story than meets the eye. But by putting it out in the way it reads, it makes it look like RR is a compassionate and caring organisation, which I can assure you isn't the case with its current board.

Thanks for looking deeper. Yeah that’s not quite so excellent

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Looking at some of the headlines this morning after MSM and Tory MP’s spent most of yesterday trying to blame Starmer for the strikes (and all the other woe’s facing the country #imagineifboriswasincharge) the majority of the headlines today seem to be accusing Starmer of being a coward and having nothing to do with the strikes yesterday (which is accurate for MSM). However I think this is in response to the the opinion polls that show actually despite the Tories efforts and the efforts of their compliant press the public are in support of the industrial action not against. Expect a change in tact from both the press and Starmer today. Coupled with Lynch’s media performances yesterday I can see some U turns on the horizon and wouldn’t even put it past this populist government to get behind it and suddenly it turning out that it is the Secretary of State for Transports job to get involved in the mechanisms of the transport sectors to keep them moving.

Yeah he’s articulating a vision that many can get behind

 

[PVA]

The new human rights bill looks pretty gross. No wonder they're trying to distract us with tune strikes.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

The new human rights book looks pretty gross. No wonder they're trying to distract us with tune strikes.

Exclusively Napalm Death on Radio 2 from now on?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

No. Do you now accept you’re in a tiny minority and that Labours position is the correct one for a party of govenrment?

Oh that’s fine then. Don’t argue for what’s right because the sensible ones are bravely abstaining.

 

[rob9872]

What’s your profession Rob?

Farmer

 

[fernandopartridge]

And yet:

The right hand bar chart doesn't show much hope for any improvement to people's lives under Labour, 60+% surveyed think there will be be the same or more strikes if they were in power. At least it looks like a party of government though.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Whose giving Johnson a free ride?
I slate the man. Can't stand him.
Its those who think not being Johnson is reason enough to vote for someone who are dishing out the free ride

I do get your point, but we are at a stage where if you don't go for Labour/Starmer, you WILL end up with Johnson instead. Which would you prefer?

I don't like the idea of voting for someone because hey aren't someone else, but we're now so desperately in the shit it's something we as a nation really have to consider.

Votes for left wing parties tend to outnumber those for right wing, yet we always seem to get a right wing govenment. There's numerous reasons for that but one big one is that the right wing vote is less fragmented than the left. The vast majority of that persuasion will vote Tory, whereas left has a lot for Labour but in the past has seen decent proportions go to Lib Dem, SNP in Scotland and no the green vote is looking like it could increase significantly. We might look for this perfect fit, but all that seems to result in successive Tory governments.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Its someone telling to get power they seem to believe they have to imitate the Tory party isn’t it?

It does seem that they see how the Tories get elected time after time and are using it as a blueprint. Doesn't seem to have worked to well with Miliband or Starmer. But then neither did Corbyn.

So it seems the issue isn't about policy as neither left or right wing policy works - it's literally just the brand Labour. You could get two people suggesting the same policy - one with a red rosette, one with a blue and I guarantee you the one with the blue rosette would be accepted and the one with the red would be criticised.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Corbyn got 42% of the vote

and wasn't elected as PM.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I would expect labour politicians to stand on picket lines if they are lawful yes.

Corbyn and Major ended up being more popular than anyone envisaged because they when campaigning went out and actually campaigned without advisors and scripted behaviour - thatcher was more polished but still had that back me or don’t philosophy

Starmer has zero conviction - if Rayner had some measure of control she’d be a far better leader

But the point is that more and more striking/pickets etc are being made unlawful. If they do so, the government just looks for ways to stop them doing it next time and make them the villains. If they put half as much effort into stopping companies and the rich taking the piss there wouldn't be the need for most of these disputes.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I do get your point, but we are at a stage where if you don't go for Labour/Starmer, you WILL end up with Johnson instead. Which would you prefer?

I don't like the idea of voting for someone because hey aren't someone else, but we're now so desperately in the shit it's something we as a nation really have to consider.

Votes for left wing parties tend to outnumber those for right wing, yet we always seem to get a right wing govenment. There's numerous reasons for that but one big one is that the right wing vote is less fragmented than the left. The vast majority of that persuasion will vote Tory, whereas left has a lot for Labour but in the past has seen decent proportions go to Lib Dem, SNP in Scotland and no the green vote is looking like it could increase significantly. We might look for this perfect fit, but all that seems to result in successive Tory governments.

If I have no choice and it comes to milk and korma or a criminal then yes Milky Keir gets my vote. If locally there is another viable option I’ll vote for them instead.

Then we can see how Mr Smarmer likes being ignored, sneered or laughed at when he wants support.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

But they don’t. You are just a lazy product of social media. No knowledge, no beliefs and no understanding. Totally binary in thought process, zero historical Knowledge and the implications of history. You can’t even form an opinion without a twitter link telling you something you then instantly believe

You really are very dull and stupid in equal measure. I wish you were at least funny but you are tragically boring and imbecilic in equal measure

If you had historical knowledge and understood the implications of history you'd know that pretty much everything you stand for has ended up failing over the past millennium.

The best advances in terms of knowledge and living standards come when ordinary people are given more power and earnings and when money is spent on things like education and research. Instead we're focused on increasing the wealth of the already rich at the expense of ordinary people by cutting wages and spending.

It's failed time and time again in history and it's their continued grip on wealth and power that ensures it stays that way, not because it's actually any good.

If we could get people to look beyond this obsession with money and wealth and actually have performance criteria that properly reflect a more balanced and varied set of indicators, giving things like physical and mental health, living conditions as much weight as (very skewed) economic growth then we might start actually getting somewhere.

 

[Grendel]

Hilarious stuff. If Starmer hears Sultanas interview today she’ll have the whip removed

 

[Grendel]

If you had historical knowledge and understood the implications of history you'd know that pretty much everything you stand for has ended up failing over the past millennium.

The best advances in terms of knowledge and living standards come when ordinary people are given more power and earnings and when money is spent on things like education and research. Instead we're focused on increasing the wealth of the already rich at the expense of ordinary people by cutting wages and spending.

It's failed time and time again in history and it's their continued grip on wealth and power that ensures it stays that way, not because it's actually any good.

If we could get people to look beyond this obsession with money and wealth and actually have performance criteria that properly reflect a more balanced and varied set of indicators, giving things like physical and mental health, living conditions as much weight as (very skewed) economic growth then we might start actually getting somewhere.

Better leave the country then. Tory Starmer and Norman Lamont in drag (aka Reeves) believe in economic growth and money and wealth

Cuba perhaps is more your thing?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Latest polling seems to show that Starmer missed a trick by not backing the strike action

Why can't I help but feel that if he had the polls wouldn't look like that. It does feel that it's 'whatever they do, it's the wrong thing and they should have done the other'.

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

A question for Starmer & his front bench.....

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Looking at some of the headlines this morning after MSM and Tory MP’s spent most of yesterday trying to blame Starmer for the strikes (and all the other woe’s facing the country #imagineifboriswasincharge) the majority of the headlines today seem to be accusing Starmer of being a coward and having nothing to do with the strikes yesterday (which is accurate for MSM). However I think this is in response to the the opinion polls that show actually despite the Tories efforts and the efforts of their compliant press the public are in support of the industrial action not against. Expect a change in tact from both the press and Starmer today. Coupled with Lynch’s media performances yesterday I can see some U turns on the horizon and wouldn’t even put it past this populist government to get behind it and suddenly it turning out that it is the Secretary of State for Transports job to get involved in the mechanisms of the transport sectors to keep them moving.

Exactly.

If he'd supported them the story would be "Lefty Starmer wants to increase cost of rail tickets and put rail infrastructure on its knees"

Because he didn't it's "Coward Starmer won't back strikes"

Got fuck all to do with reporting and everything about the narrative.

 

[Grendel]

Exactly.

If he'd supported them the story would be "Lefty Starmer wants to increase cost of rail tickets and put rail infrastructure on its knees"

Because he didn't it's "Coward Starmer won't back strikes"

Got fuck all to do with reporting and everything about the narrative.

If you don’t believe in wealth who will you vote for? Clearly not labour

 

[Otis]

If you don’t believe in wealth who will you vote for? Clearly not labour

There are flaws in all the parties at the moment. You vote for the lesser of two evils surely don't you?

Whether anyone is a Tory supporter or not, they have to admit that this current government is an unmitigated disaster.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

If I have no choice and it comes to milk and korma or a criminal then yes Milky Keir gets my vote. If locally there is another viable option I’ll vote for them instead.

Then we can see how Mr Smarmer likes being ignored, sneered or laughed at when he wants support.

But the point is you're very unlikely to actually get that option.

It'd be like having a dinner party and over half are vegetarian. Choosing the food, some want the vegetable curry, others want a salad, some want jacket potatoes. Meanwhile, the few meat eaters all decide on steak and spend the entire budget on it while the others are dithering over what to get. So the vegetarians end up with steak instead.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Exactly.

If he'd supported them the story would be "Lefty Starmer wants to increase cost of rail tickets and put rail infrastructure on its knees"

Because he didn't it's "Coward Starmer won't back strikes"

Got fuck all to do with reporting and everything about the narrative.

Yeah and neither he nor his party make the effort to influence the narrative. They allow the government the whole goal to aim at.

Oh and the strikes in Coventry have been on for 6 months but he thinks them too unimportant to get involved. Despite the council being Labour run and fully within his remit

 

[fernandopartridge]

Exactly.

If he'd supported them the story would be "Lefty Starmer wants to increase cost of rail tickets and put rail infrastructure on its knees"

Because he didn't it's "Coward Starmer won't back strikes"

Got fuck all to do with reporting and everything about the narrative.

They're stuck in arguments from a different time, this strike is in the context of the longest period of wage stagnation since records began, the population is more willing to follow an 'enough is enough' narrative yet Labour is not prepared to back it.

It looks like a party of government insofar as it's the same old same old, and given that, it'll be a low turnout of young people in the next election and a decent Labour majority feels unlikely.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

But the point is you're very unlikely to actually get that option.

It'd be like having a dinner party and over half are vegetarian. Choosing the food, some want the vegetable curry, others want a salad, some want jacket potatoes. Meanwhile, the few meat eaters all decide on steak and spend the entire budget on it while the others are dithering over what to get. So the vegetarians end up with steak instead.

Your analogy game hasn’t improved since last time. I just want the leader of the Labour Party to be seen to act on the side of working people and to have the courage to say what he thinks.

At this point ‘at least I’m not a criminal’ is his strongest argument but he doesn’t even make that

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Better leave the country then. Tory Starmer and Norman Lamont in drag (aka Reeves) believe in economic growth and money and wealth

Cuba perhaps is more your thing?

I didn't think Starmer believed in anything?

And I didn't say I didn't beleive in economic growth. I said I believed there's way more than that to indicate success that is pretty much ignored.

Imagine.

Life expectancy going down, as is the general health of the population due to high levels of pollution. Mental health is deteriorating and suicide rates are up. Living conditions have got worse as real terms wages are going down, meaning people are struggling to afford food and heating. Wealth inequality is spiralling. Homelessness is up. Crime is up. Services can't cope and aren't being invested in.

But it's fine because a handful of very rich people are making loads of money to show economic growth.

Or don't imagine it. Because you don't have to. it's the world we're living in right now.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Your analogy game hasn’t improved since last time. I just want the leader of the Labour Party to be seen to act on the side of working people and to have the courage to say what he thinks.

At this point ‘at least I’m not a criminal’ is his strongest argument but he doesn’t even make that

I appreciate that.

But enjoy the Tory government you'll end up with instead.

 

[rob9872]

A fixed penalty notice is not a criminal conviction and won't show up on a dbs check. To keep referring to our PM as one is nothing more than petty point scoring and akin to those who think it boosts their standing and demonstrates they're more intelligent by referring to him as Alexander.

 

[rob9872]

Life expectancy going down, as is the general health of the population due to high levels of pollution. Mental health is deteriorating and suicide rates are up. Living conditions have got worse as real terms wages are going down, meaning people are struggling to afford food and heating. Wealth inequality is spiralling. Homelessness is up. Crime is up. Services can't cope and aren't being invested

Where is the data to back that up? I'm not disputing it but cant find the figures. Suicides in 2020 were less than 2019. I can't find 2021.

 

[Ian1779]

No. Do you now accept you’re in a tiny minority and that Labours position is the correct one for a party of govenrment?

What does this even mean? It’s classic Kier word salad.

 

[rob9872]

Ignore that, found it. They were up slightly but only back to previous levels and still approx 10 in 100,000

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I appreciate that.

But enjoy the Tory government you'll end up with instead.

I didn’t think it was acceptable to blame the voters or was I mistaken?

 

[PVA]

The fucking state of this