Do you want to discuss boring politics? (205 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Then he should keep his mouth shut. He runs a train union FFS. But he’s got to signal to the other tankies he’s one of the gang. There’ll be no left wing economic shift while it’s attached to this crap.

His opinion on Ukraine is irrelevant to his position, and it’s irrelevant to the strikes.

Though on your other point-13 years of Labour government saw none of the anti union laws revoked. A couple more have been added in the last 12 with a few more pledged by the next PM. Frankly I care much less about what he says on Ukraine than what he does about working rights and our own economy.

 

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[clint van damme]

His opinion on Ukraine is irrelevant to his position, and it’s irrelevant to the strikes.

Though on your other point-13 years of Labour government saw none of the anti union laws revoked. A couple more have been added in the last 12 with a few more pledged by the next PM. Frankly I care much less about what he says on Ukraine than what he does about working rights and our own economy.

You might not care, but a lot of people will.
He's made all the right noises so far and he seems to be getting the message across but this won't go down well and will detract from his points on the economy and workers rights.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

You might not care, but a lot of people will.
He's made all the right noises so far and he seems to be getting the message across but this won't go down well and will detract from his points on the economy and workers rights.

Most of what he says there and up to date hasn’t been about Ukraine. If a few lines on that are enough to derail all his other points, then we’re holding him to a ludicrously high standard considering he isn’t even a politician.

Besides, are enough of the general public still glued in on the conflict at the moment for it to sway their opinion based on a few lines in an article? I’m not convinced.

 

[clint van damme]

If a few lines on that are enough to derail all his other points, then we’re holding him to a ludicrously high standard considering he isn’t even a politician.

And we both know that's exactly the way the right wing press will work.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

And we both know that's exactly the way the right wing press will work.

Look at the interviews from the first round of strikes. Piers Morgan trying to spin something about his Facebook picture, Kay Burley trying to get him to say picket breakers would be assaulted etc. They are going to spin it all anyway.

Whether we want to admit it or not the public has mostly stopped caring about Ukraine and these comments while unfortunate won’t ruin his image.

 

[skybluetony176]

Most of what he says there and up to date hasn’t been about Ukraine. If a few lines on that are enough to derail all his other points, then we’re holding him to a ludicrously high standard considering he isn’t even a politician.

Besides, are enough of the general public still glued in on the conflict at the moment for it to sway their opinion based on a few lines in an article? I’m not convinced.

The majority of the press (despite claims to the contrary) are pro right, pro Tory and just waiting for an opportunity to jump on him and discredit him thus discrediting everything that he stands for. His position is always going to held to a ludicrously high standard in the press simply because he’s the opposite to what they champion. Just look at the partygate coverage of nothing to see here, don’t you know there’s a war on stop wasting police time when their man Boris was caught out breaking his own law’s then lying about it. The second they think that they have a gotcha on Starmer the Mail went from don’t you know there’s a war on stop wasting police time to two weeks of front page headlines of he’s broke the law (he hadn’t) the police must prosecute.

Mick Lynch was always going to be held to a higher standard than anyone else currently in public life simply because he’s anti the establishment, the actual establishment, the establishment that pretends that it’s not the establishment and also anti establishment.

 

[clint van damme]

Look at the interviews from the first round of strikes. Piers Morgan trying to spin something about his Facebook picture, Kay Burley trying to get him to say picket breakers would be assaulted etc. They are going to spin it all anyway.

Whether we want to admit it or not the public has mostly stopped caring about Ukraine and these comments while unfortunate won’t ruin his image.

Well I hope you're right because given Starmers pathetic response to cost of living and workers rights issues we need someone to carry the baton.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Well I hope you're right because given Starmers pathetic response to cost of living and workers rights issues we need someone to carry the baton.

Well in Lynch there is someone who can make any right wing media host look daft on the issues that are most pressing to the general public right now. If he ever gets pressed on Ukraine in a TV interview I imagine he’d do what Starmer doesn’t and change the narrative back to what suits him.

 

[CCFCSteve]

And we both know that's exactly the way the right wing press will work.

These are his beliefs though. Probably a bit stereotypical but the further left you go, the more anti west or at least sympathetic to Russias position many (not all before there’s a meltdown) appear. I guess he’s probably similar to Corbyn in that respect, like his wider view of the EU/Brexit which he supported

I quite like Lynch. I think he’s articulate and has strong beliefs, even if I don’t agree with all/many of them, I can see where he’s coming from on certain issues and he’s doing a job for his members. Unfortunately for him, the more media you do, the more people get to see other thoughts/beliefs/views which maybe aren’t as palatable to some.

Ultimately, thats a good thing though. I’d rather judge an individual on the whole than small elements of what they present about themselves. Many politicians do their best to avoid this ie Johnson hiding in fridge, Starmers fence sitting and Truss avoiding certain interviews. They’re all examples of minimising what the public know about what those individuals really think…or might say without thinking !

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Most of what he says there and up to date hasn’t been about Ukraine. If a few lines on that are enough to derail all his other points, then we’re holding him to a ludicrously high standard considering he isn’t even a politician.

Besides, are enough of the general public still glued in on the conflict at the moment for it to sway their opinion based on a few lines in an article? I’m not convinced.

That's the problem though. Left wing people are painted as having to be absolutely whiter than white and completely altruistic otherwise they're hypocrites and untrustworthy.

Can you imagine if the likes of Johnson (or Truss or Sunak) were held to the same standards? They change their message on an hourly basis and in Johnson's case completely ignore the rule of law to do as they please. Yet that's fine.

Johnson ignores the rules to prorogue parliament, Patel ignores them to treat asylum seekers like scum and that's applauded as 'getting on over the establishment'.
Meanwhile strikes without ballot and it's 'they've got no respect for the rules of law'.

It's an absolute joke.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

That's the problem though. Left wing people are painted as having to be absolutely whiter than white and completely altruistic otherwise they're hypocrites and untrustworthy.

Can you imagine if the likes of Johnson (or Truss or Sunak) were held to the same standards? They change their message on an hourly basis and in Johnson's case completely ignore the rule of law to do as they please. Yet that's fine.

Johnson ignores the rules to prorogue parliament, Patel ignores them to treat asylum seekers like scum and that's applauded as 'getting on over the establishment'.
Meanwhile strikes without ballot and it's 'they've got no respect for the rules of law'.

It's an absolute joke.

In this case Lynch hasn't even been dishonest, he's just given a flawed opinion on foreign affairs.

 

[skybluetony176]

Cancel culture gone mad

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www.ft.com

 

[PVA]

Sounds like an absolute shambles in government right now. Half of them not doing anything and the other half in-fighting.

Aboard his ghost ship government, Johnson is bored and the ministers are mutinous

When the Treasury organised an emergency meeting between Nadhim Zahawi and the energy companies on Thursday, officials were told the night before that “a repre

www.thetimes.co.uk

Unblocked version here:

archive.ph

 

[PVA]

 

[shmmeee]

Yeah but other than insulating homes, capping energy prices, cutting VAT, a windfall tax, and increasing UC, what policies has Starmer ever proposed that would help with cost of living? Has he got something on women only train carriages?

 

[PVA]

Yeah but other than insulating homes, capping energy prices, cutting VAT, a windfall tax, and increasing UC, what policies has Starmer ever proposed that would help with cost of living? Has he got something on women only train carriages?

Exactly. If you ignore all that then he really is no better than this government which is disgraceful.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Great quote from a Labour front bencher

‘They’ve been kicking seven shades of shit out of each other all summer but it’s still all about them. Keir is not cutting though. He could run naked down Whitehall yelling out new policies and Liza Truss’s hat would get more attention’

My monies on Rayner

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Yeah but other than insulating homes, capping energy prices, cutting VAT, a windfall tax, and increasing UC, what policies has Starmer ever proposed that would help with cost of living? Has he got something on women only train carriages?

Great quote from a Labour front bencher

‘They’ve been kicking seven shades of shit out of each other all summer but it’s still all about them. Keir is not cutting though. He could run naked down Whitehall yelling out new policies and Liza Truss’s hat would get more attention’

My monies on Rayner

The problem in a nutshell.

 

[CCFCSteve]

The problem would be in six months if things haven’t improved. The best solution I’ve heard was proposed by one of the energy company execs last week. Basically freezing cap for two years, give energy companies access to government funding/support to cover funding gap between wholesale cost and what they can charge customer, pass the cost of freezing the cap onto customers but spread over an extended period (think they were talking 10-15 years). Government could then still step in for those on UC/low incomes that need assistance over that time.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The problem would be in six months if things haven’t improved. The best solution I’ve heard was proposed by one of the energy company execs last week. Basically freezing cap for two years, give energy companies access to government funding/support to cover funding gap between wholesale cost and what they can charge customer, pass the cost of freezing the cap onto customers but spread over an extended period (think they were talking 10-15 years). Government could then still step in for those on UC/low incomes that need assistance over that time.

I still don’t understand why they need to jack up the prices when they’re already raking it in?

 

[PVA]

The problem would be in six months if things haven’t improved.

Then we’ll cross that bridge when we come to it in 6 months time.

We need urgent action now, people can’t wait 6 months. People are literally going to die.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Then we’ll cross that bridge when we come to it in 6 months time.

We need urgent action now, people can’t wait 6 months. People are literally going to die.

This is the ‘let the bodies pile high’ government, they don’t give a fuck.

 

[CCFCSteve]

I still don’t understand why they need to jack up the prices when they’re already raking it in?

Some of the companies are racking it in but I’m guessing not from retail customers, many others have gone bust. It’s for the government/ofgem to work out a fair mechanism (so the energy companies share some of the pain). The type of assistance we are taking about ie potentially tens of billions, needs government assistance.

Most companies are having to buy gas on wholesale market which costs X and yet we are saying sell to customers at say 60% of X. They would all go bust if forced to do that without assistance

 

[CCFCSteve]

This is the ‘let the bodies pile high’ government, they don’t give a fuck.

We can argue whether it’s enough and the mechanisms but they obviously do. Sure I read Sunaks previous assistance commitments will cost 30-40bn.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Some of the companies are racking it in but I’m guessing not from retail customers, many others have gone bust. It’s for the government/ofgem to work out a fair mechanism (so the energy companies share some of the pain). The type of assistance we are taking about ie potentially tens of billions, needs government assistance.

Most companies are having to buy gas on wholesale market which costs X and yet we are saying sell to customers at say 60% of X. They would all go bust if forced to do that without assistance

So then they should use their profits from other parts of the business to do the decent thing. Which if they were state run would.

We can argue whether it’s enough and the mechanisms but they obviously do. Sure I read Sunaks previous assistance commitments will cost 30-40bn.

You defend them more often than not, Steve. Look at their 12 year record, does it suggest on balance they care about the plight of ordinary people? Even now they’re indulging in a leadership contest and doing nothing to act in government.

 

[David O'Day]

A whopping £46 a year - that’ll make a dent for the people that it is relevant to.
In all seriousness it is something that should definitely be done - but he needs to announce more than this soon or risk looking like he’s completely clueless and out of touch with reality.

so you were saying

 

[Deleted member 5849]

So then they should use their profits from other parts of the business to do the decent thing. Which if they were state run would.

Indeed. Worth separating out, that.

 

[David O'Day]

sharp cookie

 

[CCFCSteve]

So then they should use their profits from other parts of the business to do the decent thing. Which if they were state run would.


You defend them more often than not, Steve. Look at their 12 year record, does it suggest on balance they care about the plight of ordinary people? Even now they’re indulging in a leadership contest and doing nothing to act in government.

I’m just saying they obviously do give a fuck. Do I think what they’re doing is enough, currently no, do I think they’ve picked the right mechanisms for assistance, also no. Having a leadership battle in the middle of this mess is also not great but let’s be honest, plenty of people wanted it and were calling for it.

I’m just saying that doesn’t mean they don’t give a fuck.

I’ve also said there needs to a debate about nationalisation, water is far easier than energy. I’ll drop a post about France/EDF when I’ve got time later. Our situation is not as simple/straightforward as that and that’s a shitshow

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I’m just saying they obviously do give a fuck. Do I think what they’re doing is enough, currently no, do I think they’ve picked the right mechanisms for assistance, also no. Having a leadership battle in the middle of this mess is also not great but let’s be honest, plenty of people wanted it and were calling for it.

I’m just saying that doesn’t mean they don’t give a fuck.

I’ve also said there needs to a debate about nationalisation, water is far easier than energy. I’ll drop a post about France/EDF when I’ve got time later. Our situation is not as simple/straightforward as that and that’s a shitshow

The 12 year record I said, not just the current crisis

 

[skybluetony176]

sharp cookie

Ahhh! The old brexit shaped wedge. If the Tories stack them up Sinn Fein will knock them over.

 

[skybluetony176]

I wonder if Rees-Mogg will be leaving a note on his desk

 

[skybluetony176]

 

[PVA]

I wonder if Rees-Mogg will be leaving a note on his desk

The hypocrisy and double standards of these pricks never ceases to amaze.

 

[Ian1779]

so you were saying

They are good to be fair. Still not sure why they completely ignore the nationalisation route though… it has overwhelming public support…