Do you want to discuss boring politics? (21 Viewers)

[wingy]

Interesting little snippets on Blackfords interview earlier that freezing the gas price at current level's only cuts inflation by 4%.
Thought it would be higher

 

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[Brighton Sky Blue]

It's the whole 'man/woman of the people' bollocks that well-off Tories try to pull. A bit like Truss claiming that she went to a rough school in Leeds when in fact it was one of the best schools in Yorkshire.

They're one of us, you see. They feel our pain.

And she blamed nasty Leeds Council instead of the Thatcher government for creating a culture of low aspiration

 

[skybluetony176]

This is already happening. And I think there maybe some mechanism where by they work so long in the care industry and then they get a work visa to work where they like.

Doesn’t surprise me. I know the care home where my wife used to volunteer has gone from a majority European workforce to a majority African workforce in the last couple of years.

 

[wingy]

There was a woman on earlier in the Beebs focus up in Manchester for public opinion.
On a mobility scooter on benefits and virtually paying loans from family/friends back out of the current cheque wiping all of it out.
So she voted conservative first time in 2019, asked if she would next time "Oh yeah, she's done a lot already".

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Just heard Johnsons farewell speech, what a pack of lies that was!

Course it was it’s compulsive

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

I think total immigration has gone up since brexit hasn’t it?

I think you could be right. Difficult to tell really as we never had a clear picture of immigration before brexit.

Even the pressure group "the 3 million" were rather shocked to discover that over 5.5 million EU citizens applied for and were granted settled status..... so we now know there were at least 2.5 million more EU citizens living in the UK than was officially recognised at the time....

Covid then seriously blurred the whole picture regarding those coming in & out.

Its quite a comical twist really that our most closely monitored sector of immigration is now carried out by angry Daily Express readers counting dinghys in Kent.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I’ve always wondered if it’s to do with a private vs public persona - much like how Johnson is supposed to use his first name privately?

Not that odd as a whole. Was quite common in early 20th century for people to use their second names when spoken to - the family name was the first one. So while it'll have died out by the time of the new PM, for a number of older ones to use their second name would not be unusual.

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

David Camerons real first name is c**t.

 

[shmmeee]

Can kinda understand Gordon Brown. Not sure James Brown PM would’ve had the right gravitas.

 

[skybluetony176]

12 years of getting their own way

 

[CCFCSteve]

Taking back control

Without getting into the whole Brexit debate again ! you can have high controlled immigration ie filling up the holes you have in the economy/workforce and also even low uncontrolled immigration ie nobody wanting to come here to work even though the doors are open to all.

If you think the country can operate effectively with say 200k net migration per year surely you’d want that to be filled with say nurses or other sectors where there’s shortages, rather than maybe a load of accountants or taxi drivers coming over from the EU? Yes, they get jobs and work but then if there’s an over supply, wages are suppressed. It’s just supply and demand

I’ve always thought anyone coming to work here, apart from maybe EU under 25s, should operate on the same points system depending on the needs of the country and the individuals skillsets, wherever they come from in the world

Whether Tory ideology allows the new found ‘controls’ to operate effectively remains to be seen.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Not that odd as a whole. Was quite common in early 20th century for people to use their second names when spoken to - the family name was the first one. So while it'll have died out by the time of the new PM, for a number of older ones to use their second name would not be unusual.

Yeah my dad used his middle name

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

12 years of getting their own way

Absolute bananas isn’t it

 

[shmmeee]

Yeah my dad used his middle name

So did my grandad. My dads middle name is Boynton so not much doing there

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

So did my grandad. My dads middle name is Boynton so not much doing there

He was Leonard Austin and used Austin from before I was born lol

 

[CCFCSteve]

Doesn’t surprise me. I know the care home where my wife used to volunteer has gone from a majority European workforce to a majority African workforce in the last couple of years.

All that tells me is that the Africa workers can be arsed to go through the visa application route and the Europeans can’t….or the Europeans are happy enough and there’s opportunities for them back home after the pandemic. We talk like EU workers are banned, it’s bizarre

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

All that tells me is that the Africa workers can be arsed to go through the visa application route and the Europeans can’t….or the Europeans are happy enough and there’s opportunities for them back home after the pandemic. We talk like EU workers are banned, it’s bizarre

Suppose if they can work in 26 other countries or so without going through a process then that’s what they’ll do

 

[Sick Boy]

All that tells me is that the Africa workers can be arsed to go through the visa application route and the Europeans can’t….or the Europeans are happy enough and there’s opportunities for them back home after the pandemic. We talk like EU workers are banned, it’s bizarre

It’s hardly a welcoming environment towards them at the moment - plus why would they bother when they could go to Germany or Ireland without a visa?

 

[CCFCSteve]

It’s hardly a welcoming environment towards them at the moment - plus why would they bother when they could go to Germany or Ireland without a visa?

That’s their call. The environment is fine, otherwise 5m Europeans wouldn’t have applied for settled status. I’m sure I read around 600k* possibly returned home, probably more to do with pandemic than feeling unwelcome. Industries like hospitality and places like airports didn’t retain and a look of staff, making redundancies rather than using furlough, so understandably a lot fucked off


*just googled and seen it was maybe even only 200k net Europeans left. Not 100% on either figure but it’s a fraction of those that wanted to stay

 

[CCFCSteve]

Suppose if they can work in 26 other countries or so without going through a process then that’s what they’ll do

That’s fair enough and their call Pete

 

[Sick Boy]

That’s their call. The environment is fine, otherwise 5m Europeans wouldn’t have applied for settled status. I’m sure I read around 600k* possibly returned home, probably more to do with pandemic than feeling unwelcome. Industries like hospitality and places like airports didn’t retain and a look of staff, making redundancies rather than using furlough, so understandably a lot fucked off


*just googled and seen it was maybe even only 200k net Europeans left. Not 100% on either figure but it’s a fraction of those that wanted to stay

Yeah but they’re going to be people who’ve mostly been there for years when it was more ‘welcoming’.
It’s all about the outside perception of the country - most of the media and government don’t exactly help.

 

[skybluetony176]

Without getting into the whole Brexit debate again ! you can have high controlled immigration ie filling up the holes you have in the economy/workforce and also even low uncontrolled immigration ie nobody wanting to come here to work even though the doors are open to all.

If you think the country can operate effectively with say 200k net migration per year surely you’d want that to be filled with say nurses or other sectors where there’s shortages, rather than maybe a load of accountants or taxi drivers coming over from the EU? Yes, they get jobs and work but then if there’s an over supply, wages are suppressed. It’s just supply and demand

I’ve always thought anyone coming to work here, apart from maybe EU under 25s, should operate on the same points system depending on the needs of the country and the individuals skillsets, wherever they come from in the world

Whether Tory ideology allows the new found ‘controls’ to operate effectively remains to be seen.

The thing is freedom of movement was controlled, they were coming here to work, if there was no jobs they wouldn’t come. The majority came to work in sectors that always have and always will pay minimum wage, last time I checked the government set that so if wages were being suppressed that was largely a political decision not market forces. There’s also other checks on wages one highlighted just last week with the postal workers strike. What the postal service pays sets a precedent for the entire industry, so if you allow Royal Mail to short change their workers with a 2% enforced pay rise that in reality is a pay cut it has a knock on effect to Amazon workers, TNT workers, UPS workers etc etc. But it also has a knock on effect to other sectors even skilled workers as skilled jobs wages have to keep ahead of unskilled wages, you lower the bar for unskilled workers you lower the bar for skilled workers also. The foreigners suppressing wages argument was always complete tosh as any effect it might have pales into insignificance to other factors.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Without getting into the whole Brexit debate again !

... Before getting into the whole Brexit debate again ..

 

[Frostie]

 

[CCFCSteve]

Yeah but they’re going to be people who’ve mostly been there for years when it was more ‘welcoming’.
It’s all about the outside perception of the country - most of the media and government don’t exactly help.

Agree about media and government. The government haven’t ever come out with a clear consistent welcoming message which is a shame. The main aim for most was (hopefully) moving away from the political institution not the continent or it’s people

 

[CCFCSteve]

... Before getting into the whole Brexit debate again ..

Wont happen again….well, maybe not

 

[CCFCSteve]

The thing is freedom of movement was controlled, they were coming here to work, if there was no jobs they wouldn’t come. The majority came to work in sectors that always have and always will pay minimum wage, last time I checked the government set that so if wages were being suppressed that was largely a political decision not market forces. There’s also other checks on wages one highlighted just last week with the postal workers strike. What the postal service pays sets a precedent for the entire industry, so if you allow Royal Mail to short change their workers with a 2% enforced pay rise that in reality is a pay cut it has a knock on effect to Amazon workers, TNT workers, UPS workers etc etc. But it also has a knock on effect to other sectors even skilled workers as skilled jobs wages have to keep ahead of unskilled wages, you lower the bar for unskilled workers you lower the bar for skilled workers also. The foreigners suppressing wages argument was always complete tosh as any effect it might have pales into insignificance to other factors.

Of course oversupply of cheap labour will suppress wages, as well as stifling productivity. If labour is less cheap and plentiful, companies ordinarily invest more in processes and work practices.

Anyway, back to politics…

 

[skybluetony176]

Boris’ claim that “they changed the rules halfway through” causing some confusion. Anyone?

 

[skybluetony176]

Of course oversupply of cheap labour will suppress wages, as well as stifling productivity. If labour is less cheap and plentiful, companies ordinarily invest more in processes and work practices.

Anyway, back to politics…

A) there wasn’t an oversupply. We’ve consistently had the lowest unemployment rates and highest job vacancy rates since the 70’s and 80’s. A period when our workers were going the other way. I’m sure you remember the sitcom Auf Wiedersehen Pet due to the high unemployment and lack of job vaccines, grr freedom of movement.

B) the cheap labour was going to the already and always cheap labour industries such as farm labourers, care sectors, hotel workers etc etc, basically filling a void in the employments market that we didn’t want to fill given the choice, and we had the choice.

C) It is politics.

 

[shmmeee]

That’s their call. The environment is fine, otherwise 5m Europeans wouldn’t have applied for settled status. I’m sure I read around 600k* possibly returned home, probably more to do with pandemic than feeling unwelcome. Industries like hospitality and places like airports didn’t retain and a look of staff, making redundancies rather than using furlough, so understandably a lot fucked off


*just googled and seen it was maybe even only 200k net Europeans left. Not 100% on either figure but it’s a fraction of those that wanted to stay

I dunno the Europeans I’ve talked to seemed to take Brexit as a sign not to bother going. Easier to go to an international city where English is spoken anyway then go through the rigmarole of a visa app I guess.

 

[shmmeee]

A) there wasn’t an oversupply. We’ve consistently had the lowest unemployment rates and highest job vacancy rates since the 70’s and 80’s. A period when our workers were going the other way. I’m sure you remember the sitcom Auf Wiedersehen Pet due to the high unemployment and lack of job vaccines, grr freedom of movement.

B) the cheap labour was going to the already and always cheap labour industries such as farm labourers, care sectors, hotel workers etc etc, basically filling a void in the employments market that we didn’t want to fill given the choice, and we had the choice.

C) It is politics.

There was though. I know people in security and warehouse work who saw pay and working conditions deteriorate because of workers from EE. And we have some of the worst productivity around, we brought back hand car washes FFS! Not only were we not automating, we were deautomating!

 

[skybluetony176]

Some talk about how she’s going to have to appoint a cabinet from an even shallower talent pool than Boris did. To quote Jonathan Pie (albeit he was talking about Boris’ cabinet reshuffles) it’s like moving cat shit around on a litter tray.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Doesn't bode well when Nadine Dorries is asked to stay in, but chooses to resign!

 

[shmmeee]

Doesn't bode well when Nadine Dorries is asked to stay in, but chooses to resign!

She’s off to the HoL isn’t she?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

She’s off to the HoL isn’t she?

She's hoping to join the literary canon. Shakespeare, Dickens, Dorries