fernandopartridge
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Do you want to discuss boring politics? (23 Viewers)
- Thread starter mrtrench
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Just seen this. She’s an absolute idiot
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Deleted member 5849
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But of course increasing taxes is deflationary to balance, not inflationary. Of course other anti inflation measures include not printing money to fund a cap on energy prices and instead taxing companies such as Shell... which the CEO of Shell advocates happening.
And despite public sector wages running behind inflation, inflation has gone up, therefore suggesting that actually a (close to, remember, not at) inflation linked pay rise wouldn't necessarily boost inflation further.
Plus strikes are more likely to be avoided if government policy, as you hint at, goes for more of an in it together approach rather than a let's look after the already rich and powerful.
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Deleted member 5849
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Now we're in truly ridiculous teritory when Rees Mogg is the moderate!!!
A lot of it flows through to the richest and they buy assets (see US stock market in recent times). This ultimately fuels elements of inflation
Yes, Id already amended post as I was talking about certain wage rises filtering through to prices (typing in a rush !)
Agree that tax rises would be deflationary and that last weeks budget is only likely to have worsened situation
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
You seem to be oblivious to the fact that these strikes have been 10 years in the making. My wife for instance is a civil servant who hasn’t had a pay rise in 10 years. This is an accumulation of things, clearly, but this has been coming longer than the current issues.
Fair point. I appreciate some strikes might be justifiable, especially now with inflation so high (I do have a fundamental issue with striking but that’s a separate matter). I honestly believe others wouldn’t be happening without rampant inflation.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
I think the only thing that would have changed is the percentage of union members voting to strike. I think the strikes would still be happening because the mood was there from 12 years of austerity, stagnated wages which are wage cuts in real terms. Being a civil servant is not the jolly some people think it is. You’re overplaying the rampant inflation card. It’s so much bigger than that.
Talk to a post man and ask them why they’re striking. I have. It’s about enforcing an un-negotiated pay rise on them, it’s about enforcing working conditions on them that we’re supposed to be guaranteed wouldn’t happen when Royal Mail was privatised. It’s even about protecting wages for other workers in the courier industry because Royal Mail set’s the benchmark wage in the industry.
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Deleted member 5849
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While I'm with you in the main, got to point out that the reason companies like Hermes can exist is because they undercut. Royal Mail don't really protect wages elsewhere in a competitive market... but what we do have to change culturally is the concept of paying for a bit of quality (or in this case, not having some random nutter hurl your parcels all over the place while the delivery bloke has to rely on his own beat up rust bucket!)
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Agree on how it has held asset values up but don't think it's really had any extensive impact on day to day inflation. It does feel like the entire financial system is built on sand.
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Don’t get me started on Royal Mail. This is very different to say nurses. This won’t go down well on here (but I’ll say it anyway
) but if someone’s not happy with their your job and pay as postman/woman, get another job. If there’s a shortage of postmen and women, they’ll have to pay more to attract people to the job ?! 
That’s what happens in the private sector and with a shortage of available workers this should be happening more Something like nurses striking is different as there’s a huge shortage and the government have taken to piss (relying on their goodwill). They need to pay them more. Morally this should happen anyway
Basic view on life I know
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Deleted member 5849
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Some professions don't necessarily work in a free market however, but have cultural value rather than economic. Maybe stretching it with Royal Mail, but a post office can be the fabric of a village, and offers a hub where people know what's going on and have a contact... and the postman in my parents' village has alerted people when their curtains have been closed abnormally across a couple of days, has helped get help to people who'd otherwise never get it.Don’t get me started on Royal Mail. This is very different to say nurses. This won’t go down well on here (but I’ll say it anyway
Something like nurses striking is different as there’s a huge shortage and the government have taken to piss (relying on their goodwill). They need to pay them more. Morally this should happen anyway
Basic view on life I know
That's worth paying for ahead of an overworked goon who gets no employment protection.
duffer
Well-Known Member
Don’t get me started on Royal Mail. This is very different to say nurses. This won’t go down well on here (but I’ll say it anyway
Something like nurses striking is different as there’s a huge shortage and the government have taken to piss (relying on their goodwill). They need to pay them more. Morally this should happen anyway
Basic view on life I know
So unless it's a "worthy" cause, in your opinion, you'd remove the right to strike entirely?
Agreed and that’s why I try to distinguish between workers. I’m all for people being paid as much as possible and find bosses getting massive rises whilst asking for restraint disgusting quite frankly but there’s also the ability to afford/pay for a rises. Some businesses just can’t afford it
yep and I’ve been disappointed I haven’t been contacted personally about all planned strikes
Seriously though, I just don’t agree with a lot of strikes (some I do)
Say the rail strikes. Increase in salaries will lead to increase in fares*. If publícally owned (which I think there’s a good argument for as the current half way house is a shamble) increase in salaries will lead to increase in taxes as I don’t think fares are covering total operating costs
*Having said that I don’t trust rail companies not to try to profit and rise fares by inflation and then not pass that onto workers - this would be wrong. They can’t have it both ways
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Deleted member 5849
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And of course if publicly owned you can take advantage of cross subsidisation in the rail network, where the profits of busy routes subsidise the less busy, rather than the profits leaving the country in the form of dividends. It would mean more can be absorbed and then, when conditions pick up, you can raise more profits to fund the network as a whole. Of course government could take the decision to hold off a fare rise until the economy picks up again... you could possibly even write that into some kind of pay deal couldn't you, that in return for a deal now there's a commitment not to demand parity of pay rise with increase in ticket price if said ticket price rises above inflation when conditions improve.
On a general point, what we have to accept in this country is that good services cost money, and if we want good services we can't just demand them, we have to be prepared to contribute to them rather than expecting somebody else to. If, however, we don't want that to happen, we have to accept that services will be shit, and that impacts on all of us really.
duffer
Well-Known Member
yep and I’ve been disappointed I haven’t been contacted personally about all planned strikes
OK, so genuinely, let's work this through. I'm, say, a postman who's worked in my job diligently for a good few years. I've got job security, in that I can't be sacked on a whim or made to work on a ZHC, but my pay has lagged far behind inflation for a number of years, so in effect I've taken a pay cut year after year after year.
This year I've been offered 2% whilst the company has made huge profits and paid substantial shareholder dividends. Inflation is at about 11%, maybe more.
I've got a house near my job, my kids are well set at the local schools, and I'm near my family. I've got a mortgage and bills to pay.
Where do I go that going to offer me the same level of job security and let me pay my bills?
And, will they be able to employ the other 90,000 of us, 97.6% of whom feel the same way?
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
25% of the ticket price goes to wages. So a 10% pay increase would raise ticket prices by 2.5%. Just to put that in context.
The problem with suppressing pay to deal with inflation is that spending power shrinks and that which is left goes to finance and utilities not into the economy. Particularly if you suppress low and middle income earners and inflate the high end where people are buying assets and more likely spending internationally than locally. And especially particularly in sectors that have not had inflationary pay rises for years (not talking about trains here obviously) so already have hobbled spending power.
I’ll be blunt: most people working in the public sector do so for a fucking pittance, and it’s only because it’s an easy virtue signal for politicians looking to look tough on public finances.
I agree that a swift end to Ukraine would probably do more than all the government policy put together though.
There’s two sides to every story though
I understand that workers were offered 5.5%. I also understand that the business is currently losing £1m per day. I think they also have a £50bn pension deficit (I hope that figure is wrong but don’t think it is from a quick Google)
So, if it continues that way, let’s say all workers get paid what they want and the company goes bust, you are out of work and then end up getting less pay and less security working for Hermes etc ?! Government picks up some of the pension but you get less and tax payer picks up some of the tab
Businesses and/or services need to ultimately be viable. I’ve already said if they’re making massive profits and/or bosses at getting ever increasing salaries whilst suppressing employee wages, that’s just wrong but people need to understand that some businesses might not be able to afford inflationary increases
Agree with a lot of that. I think all firms should be looking at as close to inflation rises for all workers below national average. If they can afford inflationary rises for all great (although if we expect deflation following recession they might be better offering partial bonuses instead)
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Yeah I mean I won’t be going in asking for 10%, not at all. This will be the first year since going to the private sector my pay won’t have increased in a year. But like hell should my NHS worker partner on £17k not get anything.
That’s just wrong. I hope people note that I have distinguished between workers, offers etc
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
I work in the private sector and it defiantly doesn't happen in my industry, if anything wages are going down.if someone’s not happy with their your job and pay as postman/woman, get another job. If there’s a shortage of postmen and women, they’ll have to pay more to attract people to the job ?!
For the last 10 years plus all I've heard about is a skills shortage. I can't remember the last time we were fully staffed as its seemingly impossible to recruit anyone. Yet I've had one, small, pay rise in the last 12 years or probably longer.
Companies don't seem to give a shit that they aren't fully staffed, they just pile more work on the people who are there. To put that into context I work in a team of 5 at the moment, which was a team of 9 not that long ago. 2 people left, oddly both moved abroad, 2 got so stressed they had breakdowns and quit work all together. Those 4 salaries no longer being paid have seemingly vanished into thin air while the work has been dumped on those of us still there.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
So why are we the only G7 country who hasn't yet returned to pre pandemic levels?
Why is our predicted growth so poor compared to other major economies?
They've been affected by covid and Ukraine as well.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
One of the biggest drivers of inflation is protecting corporate profits, doing this at a time when there are other drivers outside of government control was reckless.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Crikey. We’ve gone from people under 21 being too immature to vote to people under 50 being too immature to vote
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Historian admired by Truss says she completely misunderstood his work
Rick Perlstein says the Prime Minister missed the cynicism in his book The Invisible Bridge.
www.independent.co.uk
Who would have thought that spending 12 years pandering to pensioners whilst fucking over young people would have consequences for them.
In the same way that a lot of my parents' generation vow never to vote Labour, I think an awful lot of my generation will never vote Tory. They could be fucked for a long time.
In the same way that a lot of my parents' generation vow never to vote Labour, I think an awful lot of my generation will never vote Tory. They could be fucked for a long time.