Do you want to discuss boring politics? (29 Viewers)

[skybluetony176]

You don’t need citations you just need to be honest about the reality of the last 6 years, you’re clearly not ready for that.

Err, yes you did. Actually maybe you didn’t, you’re still spouting their nonsense so maybe you didn’t pinch your nose, you like the stench of their ideology, you took massive gaping breaths of it, you inhaled it and you enjoyed it.

Your bit in red is just bollocks and again straight out of the UKIP/ERG playbook. The corporations you talk about have the ability to deal with the issues of brexit, it’s small businesses that are taking the hit.

I only voted UKIP once and it was a tactical vote as such in the EU election ahead of David Cameron’s renegotiations with the EU ahead of the referendum. I could see that people were falling for the ERG/UKIP BS so fired a warning shot to the EU using the only method I had , my vote. I wanted the EU to take the threat of Brexit seriously, I wanted them to take the negotiations seriously ahead of the referendum, the more people that voted UKIP the more likely they were going to take the situation seriously, so I voted UKIP. But you know all that already, it’s not the first time we’ve had that conversation, you’re just being lazy, I have nothing in common with the ideology of UKIP. So on that note. What first attracted you to the overtly right wing and anti-immigration UKIP ideology in the first place?

At some point in the future you’re going to have to look your kids in the face and tell them that they’re dealing with this shit because you thought it was a good idea. Maybe by then you’ve reconciled the outcome of your ideology of the past 6 years meaning that you have the dignity and grace to apologise to them. Clearly you have some way to go though.

 

---

[Grendel]

Oh wow

Do you think labour should declare a return to the EU in their manifesto?

 

[Grendel]

You don’t need citations you just need to be honest about the reality of the last 6 years, you’re clearly not ready for that.

Err, yes you did. Actually maybe you didn’t, you’re still spouting their nonsense so maybe you didn’t pinch your nose, you like the stench of their ideology, you took massive gaping breaths of it, you inhaled it and you enjoyed it.

Your bit in red is just bollocks and again straight out of the UKIP/ERG playbook. The corporations you talk about have the ability to deal with the issues of brexit, it’s small businesses that are taking the hit.

I only voted UKIP once and it was a tactical vote as such in the EU election ahead of David Cameron’s renegotiations with the EU ahead of the referendum. I could see that people were falling for the ERG/UKIP BS so fired a warning shot to the EU using the only method I had , my vote. I wanted the EU to take the threat of Brexit seriously, I wanted them to take the negotiations seriously ahead of the referendum, the more people that voted UKIP the more likely they were going to take the situation seriously, so I voted UKIP. But you know all that already, it’s not the first time we’ve had that conversation, you’re just being lazy, I have nothing in common with the ideology of UKIP. So on that note. What first attracted you to the overtly right wing and anti-immigration UKIP ideology in the first place?

At some point in the future you’re going to have to look your kids in the face and tell them that they’re dealing with this shit because you thought it was a good idea. Maybe by then you’ve reconciled the outcome of your ideology of the past 6 years meaning that you have the dignity and grace to apologise to them. Clearly you have some way to go though.

Did you lose your job and blame brexit for it?

 

[PVA]

Do you think labour should declare a return to the EU in their manifesto?

No.

Do you really think the Tory majority was because of Starmer? I know you hate the bloke, but that's just one of the most absurd things I've heard.

Go on tell me to read that book again

 

[Grendel]

No.

Do you really think the Tory majority was because of Starmer? I know you hate the bloke, but that's just one of the most absurd things I've heard.

Go on tell me to read that book again

The red wall vote was not because of the labour stance on the EU then?

 

[PVA]

The red wall vote was not because of the labour stance on the EU then?

It had absolutely nothing to do with Starmer and I can't believe you're even suggesting it.

Actually of course I can.

 

[Grendel]

It had absolutely nothing to do with Starmer and I can't believe you're even suggesting it.

Actually of course I can.

So the Labour manifesto on Brexit did not lose a single vote for them in the seats Labour would have traditionally won? Oh OK

 

[skybluetony176]

Did you lose your job and blame brexit for it?

No. Did you lose your mind and accidentally vote for brexit or are you actually the moron you portray yourself to be?

I will add though that my job involves import and export worldwide but mainly EU so I work for one of the small businesses that brexit has been a disaster for in terms of time, cost and effort. We haven’t lost any work but it costs us more, shipping especially and a large part of that is we can’t even get companies to quote for shipping by road/sea to the EU apart from 2 we were already using so competition for our work has gone, driving up costs overnight attacking our margins, then you’ve got paperwork costs in actual invoiced pounds and pence, then you’ve got the cost in time meaning I’m not doing other things. Then you’ve got the environmental damage, we’re sending half filled artic trailers around the continent because it’s far easier to send a dedicated trailer than it is to send it as a mix load trailer like we used too. Common practice now I’m told from our carriers.

Probably explains why brexit has directly contributed to 6% of the 16% inflation in food costs, that leaves 10% to blame on Covid and the war in Ukraine. 20% lower was what we were promised. That’s a hell of a difference, I don’t think even project fear predicted it would be that bad.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Your bit in red is just bollocks and again straight out of the UKIP/ERG playbook. The corporations you talk about have the ability to deal with the issues of brexit, it’s small businesses that are taking the hit.

You don't get it

 

[fernandopartridge]

I only voted UKIP once and it was a tactical vote as such in the EU election ahead of David Cameron’s renegotiations with the EU ahead of the referendum. I could see that people were falling for the ERG/UKIP BS so fired a warning shot to the EU using the only method I had , my vote. I wanted the EU to take the threat of Brexit seriously, I wanted them to take the negotiations seriously ahead of the referendum, the more people that voted UKIP the more likely they were going to take the situation seriously, so I voted UKIP. But you know all that already, it’s not the first time we’ve had that conversation, you’re just being lazy, I have nothing in common with the ideology of UKIP. So on that note. What first attracted you to the overtly right wing and anti-immigration UKIP ideology in the first place?

 

[fernandopartridge]

Tony how could you take for granted a serious election by performing a protest vote? One that had the domestic effect of making UKIP seem more popular than they actually are. How silly.

 

[skybluetony176]

You don't get it

I do, it’s you that’s having issues with the reality. Talk to a small businesses that’s pulled out of the EU market because it isn’t worth the hassle, talk to the British businesses that have moved either in part or fully to the EU taking UK jobs and tax payments with them, talk to small businesses dealing with the day to day challenge of dealing with brexit paperwork and associated costs, talk to the fishing industry who got duped into this and are now bemoaning the loss off access to market and fishing waters while access to our waters were traded off despite the promise of unicorns, talk to farmers who were duped into it and are now bemoaning loss of access to market, loss of access to seasonal workers, loss of funding despite the promise of unicorns.

Do you really think big corporates have had these issues? Of course they don’t. If they need to transfer jobs to the EU they probably already had the infrastructure in place, they already had departments dealing with imports/exports on a global scale. They haven’t had to make the adjustments small businesses have in the majority of cases and where they have they’re far better placed to make the adjustments simply by scale of operation.

 

[Grendel]

Tony how could you take for granted a serious election by performing a protest vote? One that had the domestic effect of making UKIP seem more popular than they actually are. How silly.

Perhaos he also wrote to Junker at the time and said what he’s done so the EU had better change direction or it’s all out war from Tony

 

[skybluetony176]

Tony how could you take for granted a serious election by performing a protest vote? One that had the domestic effect of making UKIP seem more popular than they actually are. How silly.

Again you’re being what you accuse me off. Try reading my post again. Maybe you’ll get the point second time around.

Maybe a timeline will help

2013 David Cameron announced that he was going to renegotiate our terms of membership following the 2015 GE and ahead of the referendum in 2016.

2014 there was EU elections. EU politicians were being as flippant as Cameron about the prospect of a leave vote happening so they needed a kick up the arse. So I tactically voted UKIP as it was clear to me that A) Cameron would win the next GE which meant B) the 2016 referendum was on which meant C) a remain vote in my opinion was unlikely and the flippant attitudes displayed by those who were going to be involved in the negotiations wouldn’t help.

Now, you could argue that the tactic didn’t work and I wouldn’t disagree with that. But that’s not what you’re doing. You’re suggesting that I voted for them out of a shared ideology as if somehow that makes me a racist or xenophobe. I’ll leave the shared ideology with racist and xenophobes with you thank you very much.

 

[skybluetony176]

Perhaos he also wrote to Junker at the time and said what he’s done so the EU had better change direction or it’s all out war from Tony

You do know that you’re a grown man don’t you.

 

[skybluetony176]

I don’t know why you’re laughing at me. You’re the one still buying it and still using their language. You’re only laughing at yourself.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Again you’re being what you accuse me off. Try reading my post again. Maybe you’ll get the point second time around.

Maybe a timeline will help

2013 David Cameron announced that he was going to renegotiate our terms of membership following the 2015 GE and ahead of the referendum in 2016.

2014 there was EU elections. EU politicians were being as flippant as Cameron about the prospect of a leave vote happening so they needed a kick up the arse. So I tactically voted UKIP as it was clear to me that A) Cameron would win the next GE which meant B) the 2016 referendum was on which meant C) a remain vote in my opinion was unlikely and the flippant attitudes displayed by those who were going to be involved in the negotiations wouldn’t help.

Now, you could argue that the tactic didn’t work and I wouldn’t disagree with that. But that’s not what you’re doing. You’re suggesting that I voted for them out of a shared ideology as if somehow that makes me a racist or xenophobe. I’ll leave the shared ideology with racist and xenophobes with you thank you very much.

Were you a Tory voter at this point?

Why did you think that the EU cared about UKIP?

 

[skybluetony176]

Were you a Tory voter at this point?

Why did you think that the EU cared about UKIP?

Regrettably yes, with the benefit of hindsight I wouldn’t have voted that way. In reality not that it would have made any difference as Rugby is a safe Tory seat but did you see how that worked. I got it wrong, I voted contrary to my own interests, I accept that, I acknowledge that, I’m remorseful about it, I blame no one but myself.

I don’t think the EU was interested in UKIP, I thought they’d be interested in the amount of people voting for them and the message that the British people are disgruntled with the EU that they should take negotiations with Cameron seriously. I don’t know how many different ways I can explain the same reasoning to you. I will just reiterate that using UKIP as a tactical vote didn’t work, as history has shown. Again you see how that works. I got it wrong, I put my hands up, I blame no one but myself.

Self reflection is a valuable and worthwhile exercise. The adult thing to do. Give it a go yourself. If I’m capable of it I can’t see it being beyond you.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Tony not only voted for the party that made a manifesto commitment to a EU referendum, but also for the party that frightened the former into doing it.

 

[Grendel]

Again you’re being what you accuse me off. Try reading my post again. Maybe you’ll get the point second time around.

Maybe a timeline will help

2013 David Cameron announced that he was going to renegotiate our terms of membership following the 2015 GE and ahead of the referendum in 2016.

2014 there was EU elections. EU politicians were being as flippant as Cameron about the prospect of a leave vote happening so they needed a kick up the arse. So I tactically voted UKIP as it was clear to me that A) Cameron would win the next GE which meant B) the 2016 referendum was on which meant C) a remain vote in my opinion was unlikely and the flippant attitudes displayed by those who were going to be involved in the negotiations wouldn’t help.

Now, you could argue that the tactic didn’t work and I wouldn’t disagree with that. But that’s not what you’re doing. You’re suggesting that I voted for them out of a shared ideology as if somehow that makes me a racist or xenophobe. I’ll leave the shared ideology with racist and xenophobes with you thank you very much.

In 2015 Tony you described yourself as "a traditional Tory voter"

 

[skybluetony176]

In 2015 Tony you described yourself as "a traditional Tory voter"

Not sure what part of regret and remorse you don’t understand. I know you think you’ve stumbled across some sort of fresh gotcha but I’ve already put my hands up to getting it wrong. I’ve already been visited by the ghost of Christmas past. You’re too late.

 

[Grendel]

Not sure what part of regret and remorse you don’t understand. I know you think you’ve stumbled across some sort of fresh gotcha but I’ve already put my hands up to getting it wrong. I’ve already been visited by the ghost of Christmas past. You’re too late.

So when you thought you were wrong you decided to migrate to UKIP?

 

[skybluetony176]

Tony not only voted for the party that made a manifesto commitment to a EU referendum, but also for the party that frightened the former into doing it.

It was his own backbenchers that scared him into a referendum, he thought he could end party squabbling with a referendum. UKIP was no threat to safe Tory seats, if anything they was more dangerous to safe Labour seats as the 2019 GE proved. IIRC they only ever had 2 MP’s in their entire history and they were defections and I think they only retained 1, Ferage couldn’t get elected to parliament if his life depended on it. You’re writing your own history again. Try some self reflection, it will help you later in life when you have to explain your part in this to your children.

I’ve got mates already there. I didn’t have kids until my mid 30’s most of my mates were having them 5-10years before me and most of them voted leave (deciding factor in seeing the writing on the wall). Most of their kids weren’t eligible to vote in the referendum so we’re relying on their parents to get it right for them. Most of their kids are now in f voting age and now have an opinion and they want to know why their parents voted for sanctions against our country, why they voted for them to lose personal rights, why they voted for them to leave school/university and enter the real world in considerably more difficult circumstances than there needed to be based on obvious lies about sovereignty, immigration, cost of living, anti growth politics, they want to know why their parents had the benefits of EU membership but they’ve robbed them of it. I think I’m right in saying your children are younger than mine from things you’ve said in the past. Maybe you’ll fall lucky and my children will right your wrongs so you don’t have to have the difficult conversations my mates are having to have with their children. Most of them see the errors of brexit by the way and would vote differently given the opportunity. Nothing like explaining to your kids that you fell for a load of horse shit to give you the dose of reality needed to admit your errors.

 

[skybluetony176]

So when you thought you were wrong you decided to migrate to UKIP?

You’re just being an imbecile now. Reverting to type I believe it’s called.

 

[Grendel]

You’re just being an imbecile now. Reverting to type I believe it’s called.

Tony

You are a traditional Tory voter who clearly has a beef about the vote

So you decide to throw a warning shot (yes one person on a football forum according to you has that power) across the EU bows by voting UKIP. You claim this warning is to show UKIP is strong so they should be worried - seemingly ignoring the fact the power they had to force the referendum in a general election i assume you voted Tory for was generated by the strength of tbe ukip vote

I assume in 2017 you decide to flutter your eyelids in Jeremy Corbyns direction

The same Jeremy Corbyn whose ideological existence exists by opposing federalist organisations such as the EU

Well now you said it Tony it makes perfect sense. What was I thinking

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Anyway let's not divert this thread into another EU one.

Too late

 

[fernandopartridge]

Too late

sorry. It's Tony's fault he's obsessed with the fact he voted both Tory and UKIP

 

[PVA]

 

[shmmeee]

Oh wow

Come on this makes lots of sense and is why the public have punished Starmer with hugely improved polling.

 

[skybluetony176]

sorry. It's Tony's fault he's obsessed with the fact he voted both Tory and UKIP

You’re the one who keeps bringing that up. Remember, there’s still time for you to do some self reflection before you have to explain this to your kids. I’ll be here for you when you’re ready. Until then keep tag teaming with people like grendull who are apparently opposite of what you are politically, and keep being Brexit voice of the ERG, reform party etc who apparently you’re also politically opposed too. Whatever keeps you from reality until you’re ready.

 

[skybluetony176]

How on earth has there not been a by-election in his seat already.

 

[PVA]

Come on this makes lots of sense and is why the public have punished Starmer with hugely improved polling.

I've seen Starmer get blamed for a lot in recent years (plenty deserved and plenty undeserved), but blaming him for the Tory majority might be the wildest one yet

 

[fernandopartridge]

You’re the one who keeps bringing that up. Remember, there’s still time for you to do some self reflection before you have to explain this to your kids. I’ll be here for you when you’re ready. Until then keep tag teaming with people like grendull who are apparently opposite of what you are politically, and keep being Brexit voice of the ERG, reform party etc who apparently you’re also politically opposed too. Whatever keeps you from reality until you’re ready.

My conscience is clear Tone. There was no vote for hard Brexit.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

You’re the one who keeps bringing that up. Remember, there’s still time for you to do some self reflection before you have to explain this to your kids. I’ll be here for you when you’re ready. Until then keep tag teaming with people like grendull who are apparently opposite of what you are politically, and keep being Brexit voice of the ERG, reform party etc who apparently you’re also politically opposed too. Whatever keeps you from reality until you’re ready.

I'd stop being angry at individual voters and direct that energy towards getting us out of the hole the country finds itself in-in my view that starts with a Labour government. We can apportion blame largely to the Conservative Party afterwards.

Spending this much time ranting at strangers on the internet can't be healthy for anyone

 

[Grendel]

I'd stop being angry at individual voters and direct that energy towards getting us out of the hole the country finds itself in-in my view that starts with a Labour government. We can apportion blame largely to the Conservative Party afterwards.

Spending this much time ranting at strangers on the internet can't be healthy for anyone

He’s probably looking to vote BNP next time - probably the only party he hasn’t voted for yet