Nick
Administrator
Was more that it won't be the tory MPs paying more for trains. They aren't the "normal people"
Do you want to discuss boring politics? (29 Viewers)
- Thread starter mrtrench
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Was more that it won't be the tory MPs paying more for trains. They aren't the "normal people"
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
It’s more than just pay though. Talking to my postie it’s also about conditions. Namely their employer wants to abandon promises made to employees and Unions that allowed Royal Mail to be privatised in the first place.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
The idea is usually to get the 'normal' people to then complain mostly at the employer.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
I do fear that the former is what will happen, however. It may not be good, but the likes of Evri undercut because they have far worse conditions than Royal Mail, and they're mopping up right now.
As it is, my parents' local postman can no longer stop for a quick chat, as he has a tracker with him, and that's thanks to competition.
We need to stop looking at things in purely financial terms, and also think of the social, cultural benefits. That self same postman drew attention to the fact a neighbour was seriously ill, because he hadn't seen them in a week. An Evri delivery guy chucking a parcel in the wheelie bin wouldn't do that. Nor would the post office closing help half the people who live in that village.
Somewhere, we have to accept we need to pay a little bit extra for a service, and deal with it.
Nick
Administrator
What are the bad conditions? I know a couple of posties and they make a decent wedge from the guaranteed overtime.
Thing is with Royal Mail, they need to keep up with the competition for both senders and people who receive the deliveries.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
The train prices have gone through the roof and the service is appalling.
The model is all about rinsing public money and giving hand outs to spivs and speculators.
It's time it stopped.
Nick
Administrator
That's the thing though, do people want to pay extra for the postman having a chat with them and knowing their name and waving? As a customer ordering something if I can have something delivered for £3.50 and it will be tracked and with me the next day why would I pay double that for something I have no idea if it will arrive the next day or will probably end up back at a sorting office 5 miles away anyway?
As a seller, I can post something tracked with a photo of where it is to prove delivery for much cheaper than the Royal Mail and much less hassle as I can drop them into a shop pretty much any time of day rather than relying on post offices.
Times have changed nowadays which is why I guess a lot of the old school Royal Mail workers don't want it to. Other companies delivery 7 days a week and even same day when people order things. They are no longer going to get paid a nice bonus for working on a Sunday etc.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
I'd pay extra for somebody improving the living standards of people who are lonely, isolated, and have limited social contact in a society where nobody cares about them and whether they're alive or dead, yep.
Nick
Administrator
To be honest that should be more the NHS than a postman...
Again, fuck the suits off and get more people on the ground for stuff like that.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
It should be the entire society. It's our responsibility to think about more than just cash.
And that means subsidising services including yes, giving the NHS the money it needs to function which yes, means we all need to start paying more taxes.
Nick
Administrator
Rinse and repeat, we pay more tax and need more wages.
I think we pay enough taxes, to be honest, and how much is pissed down the drain due to careless spending and general shadiness and filling own pockets or mates pockets? I'd happily vote for whoever actually would get rid of all the shady cunts with their PPE deals and expenses and plough all that money into making life better.
Regardless of whoever is in power though, they are all cheeks of the same arse.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
We clearly don't if you're moaning about the service you're getting from the NHS. Who do you think pays for that? How come you're bringing up moaning about PPE now, whereas you were bitching about others doing that earlier?
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
It’s all over isn’t it? No church attendance, no milkman or postie, no local Bobby, even stuff like park rangers and bus conductors. Nothing going the other way. Not sure what you can do about it. As Nick says the vast majority just want their parcel quickly and tracked, want their buses cheaper and quicker etc.
Personally I think making residential areas pedestrian/cycle first and getting more people out on the streets has big benefits. But the vast majority just want to be left alone until they need that community and it’s not there.
I see both sides here, but not sure Mail is the universal essential service it once was, mostly I get spam through my letterbox or poet copies of stuff I’ve already had over email days before.
Personally I think making residential areas pedestrian/cycle first and getting more people out on the streets has big benefits. But the vast majority just want to be left alone until they need that community and it’s not there.
I see both sides here, but not sure Mail is the universal essential service it once was, mostly I get spam through my letterbox or poet copies of stuff I’ve already had over email days before.
Nick
Administrator
Or they just aren't being used properly or wisely.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Lazy excuse for the fact a service is criminally underfunded.
Nick
Administrator
The other thing is email as well, pretty much all of my bills and stuff is sent via email now so I rarely get any letters. Mainly toolstation catalogues or opticians reminders for the person who lived there before.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
It’s not a direct correlation though. We spend below the average on healthcare for example. We’re known for our shit roads and shut public infrastructure in general because of this attitude. Most spending on wages comes back to the government in taxes anyway. And wages aren’t 100% of costs so a ten percent rise in wages doesn’t mean a ten percent rise in prices/taxes.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
And that's where the thinking has to change, and be changed. Because one day it will be me, you... Nick, who need that community.
Nick
Administrator
That's with the people deciding to allocate our taxes though, isn't it? Which I get when it comes to the NHS and agreed with about nurses etc and then shit like tax payer money going on PPE backhanders.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
So you're supporting the workers getting their rise, then?!?
Nick
Administrator
I think the internet also has a part to play in the lack of community in general now too. Sometimes a good thing, sometimes a bad thing.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Yeah thinking what I’ve had in the 18 months I’ve lived here it’s been court documents (that could easily have been sent through secure email), replacement credit/debit cards, and packages. Everything else was for the previous owners or spam.
And I’d rather the replacement cards were sent tracked anyway (currently been waiting two weeks and no idea if it’s lost or what)
Nick
Administrator
I said earlier in the thread I can see how the NHS / nurses correlate with MPs and ministers wasting billions of taxpayer money but didn't see how trains and the royal mail did.
I'm by no means an expert but I don't think throwing a bit of a pay rise is going to fix much. It will still be pretty shit just with people being paid a bit more. I'd much rather employ more therapists, local nurses, mental health specialists etc (first line type stuff) and make sure GPs sort their shit and stop being dicks as that will reduce plenty of the load on hospitals for starters.
That's before all of the pointless suits who will be taking home 6 figures.
The whole thing could do with an overhaul structurally.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
You can’t fight against human nature though really. I’d like to see schools open a lot more, a lot more visibility of people around the area but how do you do it naturally and not forced? The only thing going the other way is apps like Nextdoor and local Facebook groups which are hardly a replacement.
Now I’m WFH the only times I really leave my house on a regular basis are school runs and grocery shopping oh and City games. Everything else is a destination or a delivery. And TBH if Aldi did delivery I’d probably not even do that.
I get milk delivered and have never seen my milkman as he does it about 5am.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
From what I understand they want to enforce longer working hours. So that overtime might become mandatory, inconvenient and at lower rates, including a Sunday service.
Nick
Administrator
Is that in return for the 9% or whatever pay rise they offered?
How many more weekly hours are there?
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
It's not an either / or, it should never be either get a health service, or something else. And build in a proper social fabric, you take away some of the pressure (and cost) of an NHS as it doesn't have to function purely as triage after everything else is neglected until it's almost too late.
What a pay rise does is stop people thinking sod this, and buggering off for a job somewhere else, so good people stay in post, so things actually run more efficiently because not only do you have people hang around, but you also get people caring more about what they do, partly because they feel cared for as well.
Or, we can just say you don't matter, you're nothing, I'm considerably better than you and, to borrow an Italia-ism, race to the bottom of grinding people down, causing more mental health issues, less efficiency, and more retreat into a two-tier system where there's an undervalued underclass.
And with that I'm out, because I'm not going to change your mind. I just find it very sad that society becomes about me me me, and can begrudge other people the desire and need to be valued, in many ways.
D
Deleted member 9744
Guest
Has everyone forgotten that it is estimated that Truss' mini budget is estimated to have cost the UK between £30 & 35 billion? And the Rwanda scene has cost £180 million so far. Not a single person has been sent to Rwanda and the Government know they cannot legally but they continue to pay in order to be seen to be hard on foreigners. I believe they are setting up similar arrangements with other countries like Peru.
It's a bit much to say they can't afford pay rises up to inflation rates for essential workers when they waste money like this.
D
Deleted member 9744
Guest
Is this the get rid of NHS managers argument? Seriously it makes no sense. Take away the managers and you end up with doctors doing the admin, exactly the opposite of what we need. Allow medical professionals to use their skills in treating patients. Hospitals are very complex organisations and are generally under resourced in terms of admin and managerial staff.
Nick
Administrator
Well no there are obviously going to need to be some managers.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Lack of admin staff is a big problem in the NHS. We spend less than almost everywhere on admin as a percentage of total budget and it just ends up with highly trained medical staff doing paperwork instead of treating people.
The problem really is funding, or our expectations. The alternatives are a European style system that will cost the same or a bit more and cover less and cost more in indirect fees rather than taxes.
Thing with health is it makes sense to me to have the NHS model because illness is random pretty much and it’s not right that getting the wrong one could bankrupt or severely hamper you.
Honestly I’m a higher rate payer and objectively pay a lot of tax, but I’d pay a bit more if I knew we were going to get better services and the people working in them would get better pay. Bring in another tier above me and wealth taxes too. Not everything has to hit people on £30k or whatever.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
It doesn't, but again in the re-balancing, it has to be spelled out that paying more taxes can often save people money, too. Some of the 'soft' areas for example, such as social work. Get youths occupied and valued with some proper schemes, they're less likely to break into your house or nick your car for a joyride, so therefore your insurance comes down as a result.
But somebody has to pay for those schemes!
Nick
Administrator
Would be nice to have some sort of breakdown of where every penny of our taxes go. I know there's a bit of one with Council Tax but in terms of all the other taxes.
I'd be much more inclined to pay more if they said I'd be supporting Sharon and Mark the nurses.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
I think there’s a bit of a scam going on though where the people who would actually be worse off pretend it’s about the every day people. I’m sure I saw somewhere that most people are net takers from the state below something like £25k. Then you get that bloke on £80k whining about paying £15/mo more so we can pay nurses or offer free education.
Honestly my disposable income goes on entertainment and food delivery. Please take it for public services!