Do you want to discuss boring politics? (16 Viewers)

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clint van damme

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
“Frankly, the left has to start caring a lot more about growth, about creating wealth, attracting inward investment and kickstarting a spirit of enterprise,”

Great Keir. And you’ve got a list of these magical growth policies that require zero spend have you? And decided not to pick up the Nobel Prize in Economics for such a discovery? How modest!

He’s going to actually have to do something at some point. He can’t keep making mom and apple pie statements and never actually commit to a policy.
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That's what I was referring to, it's piss poor.
Though he has committed to loads of policies, then u turned on all of them.
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Sky Blue Pete said:
I’m not as learned as you In politics I thought he spoke well this morning
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It’s all good statements. But what’s he going to do to get growth? Everyone wants growth. Boris wanted it by being positive (and spending loads but he wasn’t allowed to do that but), Truss wanted it by cutting tax (which is spending), Sunak wants it by wishing very hard and maybe teaching people calculus, what’s Starmers plan here?

We know the only serious growth policy that won’t cost loads in spending: join the single market. But he’s ruled that out.

The idea that the problems in the NHS and education can be solved with Blairite soundbites is a nonsense. And Blair at least backed his soundbites about “reform” and “work smart not hard” with record funding, even if it was through questionable means.

You want people given more power? How do you measure power?

Student Councils were all the rage when I was teaching (maybe still are), schools used to love to show them off to show how they are empowering students to make decisions about their school. I met a brilliant Ofsted inspector once (they do exist) who said the first question they asked any school about School Council was “what’s the budget they get control over?” Because she understood no budget = no power.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
Why is it misleading? You said yourself we have one of the most punitive. We lose out on the very wealthy, as almost always. The idea we need to hit a load of middle class grannies is a nonsense.

It’s the same with almost all taxes, especially wealth taxes. The losses that would be caught be most measures like a floor rate would only hit the wealthiest who are avoiding the most tax. Most comfortable people don’t use these schemes and pay the full whack.
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Im referring primarily to the differences that are relating to BTR or whatever it’s called now

Anyway I’m sure if Sunak doesn’t have the guts to get rid of it Starmer will on his wealth creation agenda
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
Im referring primarily to the differences that are relating to BTR or whatever it’s called now

Anyway I’m sure if Sunak doesn’t have the guts to get rid of it Starmer will on his wealth creation agenda
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What percentage of deaths do you think are hit by inheritance tax?

Why would it be brave to remove it?
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
What percentage of deaths do you think are hit by inheritance tax?

Why would it be brave to remove it?
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The figure is below 4% - you’ve identified yourself why it’s brave as it’s perceived as a tax which is avoided by rich people through trusts and that they should pay more

I personally am not convinced by the argument and even the commentator grudgingly acknowledges the likely main reason of discrepancy
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
The figure is below 4% - you’ve identified yourself why it’s brave as it’s perceived as a tax which is avoided by rich people through trusts and that they should pay more

I personally am not convinced by the argument and even the commentator grudgingly acknowledges the likely main reason of discrepancy
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If only 4% of people pay it, and it’s avoided by rich people. What do you call someone richer than 96% of people if not rich?

Taxing unearned wealth is an economic good. We want a society that rewards effort and innovation, not falling out the right vagina.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
If only 4% of people pay it, and it’s avoided by rich people. What do you call someone richer than 96% of people if not rich?

Taxing unearned wealth is an economic good. We want a society that rewards effort and innovation, not falling out the right vagina.
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I see

So you think more should pay it -

So you clearly believe that the law needs changing - what would you do:

- remove lifetime gift allowances
- scrap lifetime trusts
- scrap discretionary trusts upon death
- remove the family business tax allowance (the main driver I think with the difference to France I suspect)

“taxing unearned wealth blah blah” is an opinion not a fact
 
Terry_dactyl

Terry_dactyl

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
“Frankly, the left has to start caring a lot more about growth, about creating wealth, attracting inward investment and kickstarting a spirit of enterprise,”

Great Keir. And you’ve got a list of these magical growth policies that require zero spend have you? And decided not to pick up the Nobel Prize in Economics for such a discovery? How modest!

He’s going to actually have to do something at some point. He can’t keep making mom and apple pie statements and never actually commit to a policy.
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That tactic got Cameron in.
We’ll have photoshoots of Keith in the North Pole with huskies on a snowmobile next.
I can see The Sun’s headline now…’sKier takes us downhill fast’…or something.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Terry_dactyl said:
That tactic got Cameron in.
We’ll have photoshoots of Keith in the North Pole with huskies on a snowmobile next.
I can see The Sun’s headline now…’sKier takes us downhill fast’…or something.
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The truth is Starmer as you say has a strategy to win the election

Though I’m not sure what strategy won’t.

I would suspect he will win the Bi elections Uxbridge and also the one with the 20,000 Tory majority

Posters on here (some) are happy to see it so why will he change course

I suspect he and his cabal see an opportunity to take the moderate Tory vote and establish a mildly conservative brand of politics which will secure power for a decade or more
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
fernandopartridge said:
Which segment of the electorate is this nonsense even aimed at? I think most people believe that public services need investment

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
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The likes of @PVA who make up a large proportion of the electorate
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
PVA said:
Says the bloke part of the large proportion of the electorate who voted Tory and for Brexit.
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I’ve given reasons for Brexit numerous times - I’ve voted Tory 3 perhaps 4 times in my life and will not be voting Tory at this election - so not really
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Oh and I also stated that after the referendum the government should have adopted a Norway style exit
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
I’ve given reasons for Brexit numerous times - I’ve voted Tory 3 perhaps 4 times in my life and will not be voting Tory at this election - so not really
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Yes exactly so I will not be lectured by you on who I do or don't vote for given the damage you and your ilk have done to the country.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
PVA said:
Yes exactly so I will not be lectured by you on who I do or don't vote for given the damage you and your ilk have done to the country.
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So are you seeing Mr Starmer as a visionary hopeful or business as usual

I’ve already stated I admire Corbyn and McDonnell- you I believe snigger and call people on the left Corbyn lovers
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
So are you seeing Mr Starmer as a visionary hopeful or business as usual

I’ve already stated I admire Corbyn and McDonnell- you I believe snigger and call people on the left Corbyn lovers
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I don't agree with a lot of what he's said in the last few weeks but he's doing everything he can to win an election. And it's working.

And yes you were so full of admiration for Corbyn weren't you

Grendel said:
He would against Corbyn who was an unelectable fuckwit
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Not that Corbyn is in anyway relevant to this conversation.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
PVA said:
I don't agree with a lot of what he's said in the last few weeks but he's doing everything he can to win an election. And it's working.

And yes you were so full of admiration for Corbyn weren't you



Not that Corbyn is in anyway relevant to this conversation.
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Well Corbyn was then as he couldn’t actually stand anymore for what he wanted and was shafted by Starmer and his bonkers brexit strategy - he had given up. Hes pretty relevant I suspect to a lot of labour members and voters

Your comments about “winning an election and it’s working” also applied to a certain Alexander Boris De Pleffel Johnson — somewhat ironic that
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
Well Corbyn was then as he couldn’t actually stand anymore for what he wanted and was shafted by Starmer and his bonkers brexit strategy - he had given up. Hes pretty relevant I suspect to a lot of labour members and voters

Your comments about “winning an election and it’s working” also applied to a certain Alexander Boris De Pleffel Johnson — somewhat ironic that
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No, Corbyn is clearly not relevant anymore.

And the difference is Starmer is not standing on a policy of wilfully destroying the country like Johnson was. So well done for being taken in by his lies.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
PVA said:
No, Corbyn is clearly not relevant anymore.

And the difference is Starmer is not standing on a policy of wilfully destroying the country like Johnson was. So well done for being taken in by his lies.
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What does Mr Starmer stand for?
 
fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
PVA said:
No, Corbyn is clearly not relevant anymore.

And the difference is Starmer is not standing on a policy of wilfully destroying the country like Johnson was. So well done for being taken in by his lies.
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His cast iron fiscal rules mean that he's promising cuts of £81bn over the life of the parliament, that £81bn being the budget deficit for day to day spending for the last full financial year. I mean those cuts could be a bit less in £ terms if his government is elected next year but it's very difficult to see where they're going to come from without stopping provision of some services altogether.

The whole philosophy of course is based on Margaret Thatcher's nonsensical household budget analogy.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 
Ian1779

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
PVA said:
No, Corbyn is clearly not relevant anymore.

And the difference is Starmer is not standing on a policy of wilfully destroying the country like Johnson was. So well done for being taken in by his lies.
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If Starmer stood on any kind of barely coherent policy that would give the people of this country even an ounce of hope it would be a significant gear change from him.
 
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