Do you want to discuss boring politics? (45 Viewers)

CCFCSteve · Feb 22, 2024

clint van damme said:
it was a fucking shambles.
The fact Hoyle was in Israel rimming the IDF at a time when the death toll in Gaza was 14k coupled with yesterday's proceedings should be enough to finish him in a normal country.

Rimming IDF ? Do you mean his visit to Israel ?

I try to keep out of the Israel/Palestine debate as it is so polarised it’s just toxic. Parliament was a joke yesterday by all accounts but if Hoyle genuinely allowed the Labour amendment through in an attempt to protect some MPs then calling for his resignation doesn’t feel right to me.

What I find more concerning is that MPs are being threatened for how they talk about an extremely delicate/complex subject ie what is said/unsaid. This is a democracy FFS. I don’t have much time for the political class but I don’t want MPs afraid to say something a certain way for fear of being threatened or physically attacked, especially as I’d imagine everyone wants the killing to stop anyway

Grendel · Feb 22, 2024

CCFCSteve said:
Rimming IDF ? Do you mean his visit to Israel ?

I try to keep out of the Israel/Palestine debate as it is so polarised it’s just toxic. Parliament was a joke yesterday by all accounts but if Hoyle genuinely allowed the Labour amendment through in an attempt to protect some MPs then calling for his resignation doesn’t feel right to me.

What I find more concerning is that MPs are being threatened for how they talk about an extremely delicate/complex subject ie what is said/unsaid. This is a democracy FFS. I don’t have much time for the political class but I don’t want MPs afraid to say something a certain way for fear of being threatened or physically attacked, especially as I’d imagine everyone wants the killing to stop anyway

One shadow minister off the record has said he was told labour would not support him remaining as speaker after the election unless he tabled their amendment

Grendel · Feb 22, 2024

I am also surprised (or perhaps not given he toadies to anyone) that he met with May given his outrage when she blocked the extradition of the autistic Garry McKinnon after he’d assured the US he’d ship him over there

Keir Starmer is a Long-Time Servant of the British Security State | Novara Media

Labour under Keir Starmer has taken a troubling flag-waving turn. But while his patriot act may in part be driven by political expediency, Starmer’s loyalty to the British security state has historically been strikingly consistent, writes Oliver Eagleton.

novaramedia.com

duffer · Feb 22, 2024

David O'Day said:
Why didn't they just vote for the better motion? Why did they storm out instead of voting for the motion that asks for an immediate ceasefire, recognises Palestine and calls for a halt on the Rafah offensive?

Because they called the debate to try and trap Labour and it went wrong.

Because it wasn't a "better motion" in their eyes, obviously.

They called the debate because it's a cause they've been behind for a long time.

Again it's a trap entirely and 100% of Labour's own making.

Until very recently Labour couldn't even bring themselves to mention a ceasefire, let alone propose their own motion on it. Is that the SNP's fault? I'll take your first answer...

CCFCSteve · Feb 22, 2024

Grendel said:
One shadow minister off the record has said he was told labour would not support him remaining as speaker after the election unless he tabled their amendment

There is no doubt some dirty stuff going on behind the scenes by all parties. From hoyles comments i dont think he made the call to protect his own job though. The fact you’ve got some 1922 and SNP calling for resignation is enough of a steer for me….both have got plenty of their own shit to sort out (deflection)

PVA · Feb 22, 2024

Hoyle announces an emergency debate on Gaza.

Let's see if they can stick to debating Gaza or if they continue to throw their toys out of their respective prams over yesterday. See what they really care about...

David O'Day · Feb 22, 2024

duffer said:
Because it wasn't a "better motion" in their eyes, obviously.

They called the debate because it's a cause they've been behind for a long time.

Again it's a trap entirely and 100% of Labour's own making.

Until very recently Labour couldn't even bring themselves to mention a ceasefire, let alone propose their own motion on it. Is that the SNP's fault? I'll take your first answer...

Ok mate, if you can't see that the SNP are using Gaza to play political games to try and get an edge in Scotland over Labour then so be it.

Back in the real world though...

Ian1779 · Feb 22, 2024

CCFCSteve said:
Rimming IDF ? Do you mean his visit to Israel ?

I try to keep out of the Israel/Palestine debate as it is so polarised it’s just toxic. Parliament was a joke yesterday by all accounts but if Hoyle genuinely allowed the Labour amendment through in an attempt to protect some MPs then calling for his resignation doesn’t feel right to me.

What I find more concerning is that MPs are being threatened for how they talk about an extremely delicate/complex subject ie what is said/unsaid. This is a democracy FFS. I don’t have much time for the political class but I don’t want MPs afraid to say something a certain way for fear of being threatened or physically attacked, especially as I’d imagine everyone wants the killing to stop anyway

I’m sorry but the protecting MP’s line is rubbish.

shmmeee · Feb 22, 2024

Ian1779 said:
I’m sorry but the protecting MP’s line is rubbish.

Why? Do you think people didn’t fear for their safety or that wasn’t the reason?

Ian1779 · Feb 22, 2024

shmmeee said:
Why? Do you think people didn’t fear for their safety or that wasn’t the reason?

I think it’s a shitty excuse to distract away from his poor behaviour.

A lot of the Pro-Palestine protests/marches have been completely peaceful (unlike some of the EDL ones we saw around Remembrance Day) yet they have been labelled by some MP’s as terrorist marches which is absolute nonsense.

How can we have people simultaneously claiming to feel unsafe, whilst lying about the nature of some protests.

Any MP’s that might have real concerns get lost in the circus.

wingy · Feb 22, 2024

shmmeee said:
Why? Do you think people didn’t fear for their safety or that wasn’t the reason?

Who from the idf, mossad?

shmmeee · Feb 22, 2024

Ian1779 said:
I think it’s a shitty excuse to distract away from his poor behaviour.

A lot of the Pro-Palestine protests/marches have been completely peaceful (unlike some of the EDL ones we saw around Remembrance Day) yet they have been labelled by some MP’s as terrorist marches which is absolute nonsense.

How can we have people simultaneously claiming to feel unsafe, whilst lying about the nature of some protests.

Any MP’s that might have real concerns get lost in the circus.

I think there’s been credible death threats and that several MPs have been attacked or killed recently. I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss it TBH. Even if I do find it annoying. I also think Hoyle took them seriously.

CCFCSteve · Feb 22, 2024

Ian1779 said:
I think it’s a shitty excuse to distract away from his poor behaviour.

A lot of the Pro-Palestine protests/marches have been completely peaceful (unlike some of the EDL ones we saw around Remembrance Day) yet they have been labelled by some MP’s as terrorist marches which is absolute nonsense.

How can we have people simultaneously claiming to feel unsafe, whilst lying about the nature of some protests.

Any MP’s that might have real concerns get lost in the circus.

Are you kidding ? Did you not hear about Freer not standing again because of death threats ? Yvette Cooper having to speak to police about threat to labour MPs ? Demonstrations outside of homes, vandalising constituency offices. It’s all intimidation.

Labour MPs given security advice after threats over Israel

The Times & The Sunday Times

News and opinion from The Times & The Sunday Times

www.thetimes.co.uk

StrettoBoy · Feb 22, 2024

PVA said:
SNPs and Tories tried to play games. It backfired. Their toys well and truly came out the pram.

Of course it's all Labour's fault. I should have known

No, it was Starmer - the man who has no principles - putting the Speaker under pressure to do something against Standing Orders in order to avoid being embarrassed by a party rebellion.

I will NEVER vote Labour while Starmer is party leader.

Ian1779 · Feb 22, 2024

CCFCSteve said:
Are you kidding ? Did you not hear about Freer not standing again because of death threats ? Yvette Cooper having to speak to police about threat to labour MPs ? Demonstrations outside of homes, vandalising constituency offices. It’s all intimidation.

Labour MPs given security advice after threats over Israel

The Times & The Sunday Times

News and opinion from The Times & The Sunday Times

www.thetimes.co.uk

Were you as concerned at this point?

skybluetony176 · Feb 22, 2024

On a day full of faux outrage, remember this

PVA · Feb 22, 2024

StrettoBoy said:
No, it was Starmer - the man who has no principles - putting the Speaker under pressure to do something against Standing Orders in order to avoid being embarrassed by a party rebellion.

I will NEVER vote Labour while Starmer is party leader.

The Tories could have voted down the Labour amendment. The SNP motion would have followed and then the Tory motion.

The Tories pulled theirs because they knew they didn't have enough votes/they knew Labour's had the backing of the house.

If the SNP were really that bothered about passing a motion on such a critical issue that unites the house they would have consulted with other parties to agree upon it beforehand. They chose not to because it's clear they were trying to embarrass Labour.

At the end of the day a motion was passed that there should be an immediate ceasefire. Is that not what everyone wants?

StrettoBoy · Feb 22, 2024

PVA said:
The Tories could have voted down the Labour amendment. The SNP motion would have followed and then the Tory motion.

The Tories pulled theirs because they knew they didn't have enough votes/they knew Labour's had the backing of the house.

If the SNP were really that bothered about passing a motion on such a critical issue that unites the house they would have consulted with other parties to agree upon it beforehand. They chose not to because it's clear they were trying to embarrass Labour.

At the end of the day a motion was passed that there should be an immediate ceasefire. Is that not what everyone wants?

We will never know how it might have gone because there wasn't a division on it but I don't think that's really the point.

The key points are that (a) the Speaker was put under pressure by Starmer, for purely selfish political reasons, to which he was foolish enough to succumb despite Standing Orders mandating that he should have acted differently and (b) the safety of MPs has actually been put at greater risk because it has been demonstrated to those who make threats that they can influence Parliamentary proceedings in their favour. Both of these are a serious risk to our democracy.

Hoyle has acted so badly that he should have the decency to resign. As for Starmer, he is unfit to lead a major political party never mind become Prime Minister.

CCFCSteve · Feb 22, 2024

Ian1779 said:
Were you as concerned at this point?

View attachment 34170

Bit of a strange response. We’re talking about threats and death threats for MPs which are happening regularly, reflected by the fact that requests have been made for additional security. Not to mention the belief this is leading to many, in particular women MPs, deciding not to run in future. This obviously in additions to two MPs being killed in recent years. Hoyle, as speaker, would be fully aware of all of the threats made to MPs, most of which won’t even be public. I don’t know if that was the only or even main reason he allowed the amendment through but I’d imagine it would’ve been a significant factor

But in answer your question that type of headline is totally unnecessary and just stokes up hatred. If it led to any death threats or worse to judges then I’d have no issue with the Mail being held partially responsible

skybluetony176 · Feb 22, 2024

Liz Truss is an absolute mentalist. Apparently she failed as PM because deep state trans activists sabotaged everything she did. Complete fruit loop.

shmmeee · Feb 22, 2024

Not often I say something positive about hignfy, but this is pretty much spot on.

CCFCSteve · Feb 22, 2024

shmmeee said:
Not often I say something positive about hignfy, but this is pretty much spot on.

AKA an absolute shitshow…none of which would’ve had any bearing on the Israel/Palestine situation even if they’d all united under one motion/amendment

PVA · Feb 22, 2024

CCFCSteve said:
AKA an absolute shitshow…none of which would’ve had any bearing on the Israel/Palestine situation even if they’d all united under one motion/amendment

And the fact they didn't shows that it was absolutely nothing to do with Gaza.

fernandopartridge · Feb 22, 2024

CCFCSteve said:
Rimming IDF ? Do you mean his visit to Israel ?

I try to keep out of the Israel/Palestine debate as it is so polarised it’s just toxic. Parliament was a joke yesterday by all accounts but if Hoyle genuinely allowed the Labour amendment through in an attempt to protect some MPs then calling for his resignation doesn’t feel right to me.

What I find more concerning is that MPs are being threatened for how they talk about an extremely delicate/complex subject ie what is said/unsaid. This is a democracy FFS. I don’t have much time for the political class but I don’t want MPs afraid to say something a certain way for fear of being threatened or physically attacked, especially as I’d imagine everyone wants the killing to stop anyway

I'm not sure how such an overt action protects any MPs? It exposes them even more

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fernandopartridge · Feb 22, 2024

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clint van damme · Feb 22, 2024

CCFCSteve said:
Rimming IDF ? Do you mean his visit to Israel ?

I try to keep out of the Israel/Palestine debate as it is so polarised it’s just toxic. Parliament was a joke yesterday by all accounts but if Hoyle genuinely allowed the Labour amendment through in an attempt to protect some MPs then calling for his resignation doesn’t feel right to me.

What I find more concerning is that MPs are being threatened for how they talk about an extremely delicate/complex subject ie what is said/unsaid. This is a democracy FFS. I don’t have much time for the political class but I don’t want MPs afraid to say something a certain way for fear of being threatened or physically attacked, especially as I’d imagine everyone wants the killing to stop anyway

I don't believe for one minute that was Hoyles motivation.

PVA · Feb 23, 2024

fernandopartridge said:
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Haha this is amazing

clint van damme · Feb 23, 2024

PVA said:
Haha this is amazing

Why?

CCFCSteve · Feb 23, 2024

clint van damme said:
I don't believe for one minute that was Hoyles motivation.

That’s your prerogative and I don’t know either but my comment was backed up by some pretty strong supporting evidence

I asked about the rimming comment because there appears a misconception (seems to be on the left) that Hoyle only visited Israel which is factually incorrect https://www.lep.co.uk/news/politics...-his-trip-to-israel-and-the-west-bank-4438911

Brighton Sky Blue · Feb 23, 2024

SNP planning to chant ‘you’re not fit to wear the shirt’ at Hoyle today

Sick Boy · Feb 23, 2024

PVA said:
Haha this is amazing

Are some war crimes more deserving of immunity than others?

fernandopartridge · Feb 23, 2024

PVA said:
Haha this is amazing

It's a coincidence yes. Even back then Keith was meeting the right wing press for reasons unknown, the Times and Sunday Times. Why?

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Sick Boy · Feb 23, 2024

fernandopartridge said:
It's a coincidence yes. Even back then Keith was meeting the right wing press for reasons unknown, the Times and Sunday Times. Why?

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Was that when @PVA was voting Tory?

clint van damme · Feb 23, 2024

CCFCSteve said:
That’s your prerogative and I don’t know either but my comment was backed up by some pretty strong supporting evidence

I asked about the rimming comment because there appears a misconception (seems to be on the left) that Hoyle only visited Israel which is factually incorrect https://www.lep.co.uk/news/politics...-his-trip-to-israel-and-the-west-bank-4438911

I'm not sure a zionist visiting the West Bank is quite the mitigation you think it is!
They normally take someone's family home while they're there!

Ian1779 · Feb 23, 2024

Fascists like you are the real threat.

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