because they’re getting a shit service
up until the pandemic it wasn’t markedly different to a majority of the last Labour government, actually higher than a lot of the time (i appreciate they did a lot to improve it which took time, but I also believe the changes in GP contracts is part of the reason we have such a mess when it comes to A&E now)
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If people want to blindly follow the nhs is great it just needs more cash then that’s their call. I’ve said before I’ve known people work with the NHS pre Tory government and the bureaucracy and unwillingness to accept and deliver change was around then. I presume the culture hasn’t changed much
ps whatever happens it needs cross party buy in as the countries health is far too important to play party politics
The nhs could spend whatever money it is provided.What's he not wrong about?
The nhs could spend whatever money it is provided.
Some areas of the nhs work in a 20th century way. IT for instance is like many civil service departments caught up in the past
The nhs could spend whatever money it is provided.
Some areas of the nhs work in a 20th century way. IT for instance is like many civil service departments caught up in the past
You aren’t going to get a new IT system for £0 tho
Mental health provision would be one - we could never spend enoughHave you got an example Pete?
People working in the NHS don't want a new IT system though, it's not where the problem is. The problems are more basic than that - they have got very old kit that is just not fit to work with the cloud hosted EPRs etc they are trying to use. It's a bit like playing the newer versions of Champ Manager on an old PC.
The networking infrastructure is inconsistent, for example many GP practices have got a tiny bit of bandwidth which they are trying to use to perform remote video triage etc over.
You get politicians like Wes and the Tories waffling on about AI and great tech advances. NO, sort the basics out first otherwise widespread AI etc is a complete pipe dream.
The NHS has had many problems for as long as I can remember. if it is so wonderful a system why has no EU country copied it?
Anyway it it does not really matter it is unreformable and nothing of consequence is going to change.
Mental health provision would be one - we could never spend enough
Yep agreed but I think we are aligned politicallyLike obesity it’s something where the NHS picks up the tab for other policy failures. Same as behaviour in schools. IMO it’s caused where you straddle public and private responsibility. We don’t want to take policy action to say change what people eat or how they exercise/move around, or limit say social media, or any other drivers of poor physical and mental health. But we still want to stop people completely fucking themselves up so catch them at crisis point.
Like people say about taxes, we’ve got a US approach to personal liberty with a European social support network. We seem to suffer a lot from being neither a social democratic communitarian Northern European country nor a hyper efficient, I’m alright jack, individualistic libertarian country like the US.
Most countries in the EU have a universal healthcare system. The real question is why aren’t we copying them, especially true of the Scandinavian countries. Take Denmark for instance. Its universal healthcare system is so effective that only about 1% of hospital beds there are private, compared to about 9% in the UK. We’ve lost over half our hospital beds in the last 3 decades and seen big rises in people turning to private healthcare in some way.The NHS has had many problems for as long as I can remember. if it is so wonderful a system why has no EU country copied it?
Anyway it it does not really matter it is unreformable and nothing of consequence is going to change.
Stop stressing out in the first place I'd say to that?Mental health provision would be one - we could never spend enough
Something rather large and health related happened in 2019 that added a huge amount of costs to be fair.
I think personal attitudes in the UK are in reality much closer to northern European ones it's just got a rabid right wing media that likes to try and encourage something more American (when it suits).Like obesity it’s something where the NHS picks up the tab for other policy failures. Same as behaviour in schools. IMO it’s caused where you straddle public and private responsibility. We don’t want to take policy action to say change what people eat or how they exercise/move around, or limit say social media, or any other drivers of poor physical and mental health. But we still want to stop people completely fucking themselves up so catch them at crisis point.
Like people say about taxes, we’ve got a US approach to personal liberty with a European social support network. We seem to suffer a lot from being neither a social democratic communitarian Northern European country nor a hyper efficient, I’m alright jack, individualistic libertarian country like the US.
Most countries in the EU have a universal healthcare system. The real question is why aren’t we copying them, especially true of the Scandinavian countries. Take Denmark for instance. Its universal healthcare system is so effective that only about 1% of hospital beds there are private, compared to about 9% in the UK. We’ve lost over half our hospital beds in the last 3 decades and seen big rises in people turning to private healthcare in some way.
For him to get personally rich off the back of his idea.What Streetings plan is I'm not sure.
For him to get personally rich off the back of his idea.
I think personal attitudes in the UK are in reality much closer to northern European ones it's just got a rabid right wing media that likes to try and encourage something more American (when it suits).
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Good fags should get cheaper then?On social support definitely. I think we’re more enterprising than the Europeans though. There’s a middle ground there that’s uniquely British somewhere. We just need to be comfortable with it and what it means. Sugar tax and banning smoking is probably fine, cookie banners and banning straight /bendy/whateverthememewas bananas less so.
Good fags should get cheaper then?
Of course you don’t Steve, and it’s not an automatic response. There are people on here that have a better understanding of the issues NHS has, and I’d trust their judgment and that of other people who work in it over an odious little scrote like Streeting.I just don’t see that Ian. I’ve looked into his background which is pretty interesting and whilst I don’t have much faith in politicians across the board, I don’t think that should be the automatic response when he or anyone else talks about NHS reform/improvement
Looks like that's the subject of tonights PanoramaNHS England put in place the 'increasing capacity framework' two years ago. This framework is to make arrangements so that the NHS is able to easily buy in from the private sector extra capacity to help with the elective waiting list.
Oh, and the private sector is paid exactly the same tariff for an elective procedure that an NHS Trust is. This reform then means that the government pays the same but the surplus (if there is one) goes to shareholders whomever and wherever they may be, rather than being recycled within an NHS Trust to spend on the much larger general service provision they bring.
In my experience private consultants are the same consultants you would see under the NHS. I needed an urgent referral to the urologist a couple of years ago, urgent meant about 6 weeks so I went private and saw a urologist the next day. I needed a high quality ultrasound but the Meriden centre didn’t have one so he referred me back to the NHS for the ultrasound, thankfully that was only about a 10 day wait. I got the ultrasound done and it went to a NHS urologist although the sonographer could confirm it was nothing to worry about I still needed a follow up appointment. The follow up appointment came through at Walsgrave and saw the same urologist I saw at the Meriden clinic next door. Basically I jumped the queue for £650. It begs the question though that if consultants can earn more money doing the same work for private clinics as they do for the NHS why not just pay them the same as the private clinics pay them in the first place? Given private clinics get the same tariff when doing NHS work, just cut out the middle man.If they’re paid the same tariff then I don’t think there can be too many complaints. I can’t imagine they’d be much in the way of surplus as consultants charge more for operating privately. Agree that I thought this type of thing was already in place, just not well utilised. I hope he’s got more in his locker than just this though
If they’re paid the same tariff then I don’t think there can be too many complaints. I can’t imagine they’d be much in the way of surplus as consultants charge more for operating privately. Agree that I thought this type of thing was already in place, just not well utilised. I hope he’s got more in his locker than just this though
In my experience private consultants are the same consultants you would see under the NHS. I needed an urgent referral to the urologist a couple of years ago, urgent meant about 6 weeks so I went private and saw a urologist the next day. I needed a high quality ultrasound but the Meriden centre didn’t have one so he referred me back to the NHS for the ultrasound, thankfully that was only about a 10 day wait. I got the ultrasound done and it went to a NHS urologist although the sonographer could confirm it was nothing to worry about I still needed a follow up appointment. The follow up appointment came through at Walsgrave and saw the same urologist I saw at the Meriden clinic next door. Basically I jumped the queue for £650. It begs the question though that if consultants can earn more money doing the same work for private clinics as they do for the NHS why not just pay them the same as the private clinics pay them in the first place? Given private clinics get the same tariff when doing NHS work, just cut out the middle man.
Of course there is a surplus, these private entities wouldn't agree a contract for work with no margin in it. The consultant's charge will be no greater than the actual cost of employing a consultant in an NHS Trust taking into account on-costs etc.
Colleague has just been involved in a new major trauma centre in Greater Manchester, the NHS organised the building and equipping of that actuallyMost of my involvement with medical care has been visits to Chemists and they have all been privatised.
You want a new Hospital who will build it, not the NHS.
NHS does not manufacture ambulances.
I seem to remember that when the NHS started part of the deal was that Doctors maintained their independence.
The one thing hopefully we can all agree on is that it is very badly run, how do we change that?
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