Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
Have people in charge that want to run it as a SERVICE rather than run it into the ground while letting private providers milk the easy stuff.
Do you want to discuss boring politics? (19 Viewers)
- Thread starter mrtrench
- Start date
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
Yep. Private healthcare take on the easy, low risk stuff with big margins and leave the NHS with the complicated, expensive stuff.
Private is obviously elected non urgent procedures but wouldn’t say it’s all easy stuff
The problem as highlighted by others is it’s pretty much the same pool of people at a senior level (consultants) to carry out procedures so not sure it will do much to solve the backlog problems
Good to get scans etc done though. Also I presume there’s some ongoing treatments like cancer/chemo that might be covered if backlog in certain trusts
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Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Hook it to my veins Pete
duffer
Well-Known Member
Politely, I'm not sure I can agree with that. You could argue the problem is that it's badly run, but the counter is that it's been substantially underfunded for a long time now, and the problems now are primarily down to that issue.
(See below a report from the FT, hardly a lefty rag.)
As for chemists, haven't they always been private entities? Regardless, if independence and/or privatisation solves the problem, why are we suffering so badly in terms of dental health?
UK health spending over past decade lags behind Europe by £40bn a year
Health Foundation points to scale of NHS cuts, while NAO shows service struggling with inflation and staff shortages
duffer
Well-Known Member
It's a long read mate, but worth it if you want a detailed take on the issues around this.
It is broadly as described elsewhere; the private companies to take the easier, profitable work, and let the NHS deal with the expensive, difficult stuff.
It might get people treated faster, which is always a good thing, but it certainly doesn't make things cheaper for the NHS overall (and quite possibly, the opposite).
The case of Circle vs. the NHS – why NHS and private providers do not compete on a level playing field
Circle’s lawsuit against an NHS CCG illustrates the flaws in financially comparing private and NHS providers.
chpi.org.uk
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Trusts don't make a surplus but the direct tariff will contribute to the overhead, so there may be a surplus against the direct costs of performing the procedure.I meant a meaningful surplus. Of course they’re making a profit but I’m assuming Trusts have calculated the approximate actual costs previously so if private are receiving the same then it’s not like there’s massive profiteering going on
Ps it’s a bit bizarre trusts are making a surplus to start with
Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
It's a long read mate, but worth it if you want a detailed take on the issues around this.
It is broadly as described elsewhere; the private companies to take the easier, profitable work, and let the NHS deal with the expensive, difficult stuff.
It might get people treated faster, which is always a good thing, but it certainly doesn't make things cheaper for the NHS overall (and quite possibly, the opposite).
The case of Circle vs. the NHS – why NHS and private providers do not compete on a level playing field
Circle’s lawsuit against an NHS CCG illustrates the flaws in financially comparing private and NHS providers.
The attached is talking about an either/or option. I wasn’t suggesting it would make it cheaper, just that if private had capacity and was receiving the same payment as trusts to perform scans, procedures etc, I’ve got no issue with that. Basically supplementing nhs capacity to try to help reduce waiting lists
As mentioned though it’s the same pool of consultants/senior consultants undertaking many of the procedures so Id imagine it wouldn’t make a significant dent in the waiting lists… any dent would be good for those stuck waiting for treatment though
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Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
I agree about the fact it's largely the same people doing procedures so doesn't actually increase capacity.
And although it isn't necessarily 'easy' stuff common sense tells you it will be. Private are in it for the profit margin, and rarely do you get that for complicated procedures as there's so much stuff/people/monitoring you need. Do a simple procedure quickly, get them out the door and collect your money.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
duffer
Well-Known Member
That would be a surprise. Ten minutes of research shows that Brexit has had a negative impact on exports overall, and is an ongoing drag on the economy.
Whatever you're smoking in your pipe, you need to lay off it for a bit, you're hallucinating.
You got Brexit done, now own that shit instead of whining and making stuff up to try to feel better about a bad decision. It's childish.
The Brexit bill: £100bn hit to UK exports as toy and jewellery sales slump
Businesses that make sporting goods, children’s toys, jewellery and medical goods have struggled the most with the border costs imposed by the UK’s decision to leave the EU
www.independent.co.uk
Appears to be correct
www.cityam.com
Very weird that this hasn’t been more widely reported (had to Google myself).
Also maybe what many commentators have forgotten/intentionally ignored when complaining about our new trade deals is that we’re a massively service industry driven economy. So while someone’s panicking about us being able to get our hands on cheaper NZ lamb, in exchange we might well be opening up access to our service industries which is far more beneficial to the wider economy.
Services trade sees UK become world’s fourth largest exporter
The UK has become the world’s fourth largest exporter thanks to a boost in services, fresh trade figures have shown.
www.cityam.com
Very weird that this hasn’t been more widely reported (had to Google myself).
Also maybe what many commentators have forgotten/intentionally ignored when complaining about our new trade deals is that we’re a massively service industry driven economy. So while someone’s panicking about us being able to get our hands on cheaper NZ lamb, in exchange we might well be opening up access to our service industries which is far more beneficial to the wider economy.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Appears to be correct
Services trade sees UK become world’s fourth largest exporter
The UK has become the world’s fourth largest exporter thanks to a boost in services, fresh trade figures have shown.
Very weird that this hasn’t been more widely reported (had to Google myself).
Also maybe what many commentators have forgotten/intentionally ignored when complaining about our new trade deals is that we’re a massively service industry driven economy. So while someone’s panicking about us being able to get our hands on cheaper NZ lamb, in exchange we might well be opening up access to our service industries which is far more beneficial to the wider economy.
I can only see it on CityAM, which is like only seeing something on The Canary, so I’m guessing their report isn’t quite accurate for the data or is missing some key context that means it’s not that impressive.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
I think if you break the figures down Steve firstly it looks like they aren’t adjusted for inflation, something that’s hit the UK harder than most EU countries driving up the cost of UK products and exports. Secondly it looks like the only real growth is with the EU, it’s not as a result of signing trade deals with anyone. Also worth noting that we’ve only returned to our original position having fell to 7th following brexit. I’m guessing that the reason why it isn’t being covered is because the big brexit story this week is that the latest round of Brexit checks is going to cost the UK £2B.Appears to be correct
Services trade sees UK become world’s fourth largest exporter
The UK has become the world’s fourth largest exporter thanks to a boost in services, fresh trade figures have shown.
Very weird that this hasn’t been more widely reported (had to Google myself).
Also maybe what many commentators have forgotten/intentionally ignored when complaining about our new trade deals is that we’re a massively service industry driven economy. So while someone’s panicking about us being able to get our hands on cheaper NZ lamb, in exchange we might well be opening up access to our service industries which is far more beneficial to the wider economy.
So to recap. Our growth is with the EU in spite of Brexit not the rest of the world thanks to brexit. It’s come at the cost of increasing the cost of imports by £2B. There’s no real brexit win here especially when lined up against a very real brexit loss. Which is probably why not even the Barclay, Murdoch and Rothermere brexit fanatic press is running with it. It’s just so easily dismantled.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Far too reasonable for meAppears to be correct
Services trade sees UK become world’s fourth largest exporter
The UK has become the world’s fourth largest exporter thanks to a boost in services, fresh trade figures have shown.
Very weird that this hasn’t been more widely reported (had to Google myself).
Also maybe what many commentators have forgotten/intentionally ignored when complaining about our new trade deals is that we’re a massively service industry driven economy. So while someone’s panicking about us being able to get our hands on cheaper NZ lamb, in exchange we might well be opening up access to our service industries which is far more beneficial to the wider economy.
When I googled it shows in some right leaning papers (didn’t want to trigger anyone so attached city am
) 
Brexit Britain becomes the world's fourth BIGGEST exporter
The UK has shot up from its previous ranking of seventh in 2021, United Nations data has shown, rising three places in 2022. It is behind only China, the United States and Germany for exports.
www.dailymail.co.uk
Kemi Badenoch hails Brexit Britain as new figures reveal export boom | Politics | News | Express.co.uk
The UK has overtaken France, the Netherlands and Japan to move into fourth place in the global rankings.
Kind of ties in with this though
UK trade with EU and non-EU countries in 4 quarters to the end of September 2023
| Trade direction | Value £ billion | % change since previous 4 quarters |
|---|---|---|
| UK exports to the EU | 358.9 | 8.4% |
| UK imports from the EU | 463.3 | 15.5% |
| UK exports to the non-EU | 524.2 | 13.7% |
It’s a good news story tony. Happy for you to review the UNs data (dollar based) and detail the impacts of inflation, currency fluctuations etc on their numbers but I’m not going to bother.
There are plenty of issues relating to Brexit in particular challenges with importing/exporting goods but this appears to be a positive story
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
When I googled it shows in some right leaning papers (didn’t want to trigger anyone so attached city am
Brexit Britain becomes the world's fourth BIGGEST exporter
The UK has shot up from its previous ranking of seventh in 2021, United Nations data has shown, rising three places in 2022. It is behind only China, the United States and Germany for exports.www.dailymail.co.uk
Kemi Badenoch hails Brexit Britain as new figures reveal export boom | Politics | News | Express.co.uk
The UK has overtaken France, the Netherlands and Japan to move into fourth place in the global rankings.www.express.co.uk
Kind of ties in with this though
UK trade with EU and non-EU countries in 4 quarters to the end of September 2023
Trade direction Value £ billion % change since previous 4 quarters UK exports to the EU 358.9 8.4% UK imports from the EU 463.3 15.5% UK exports to the non-EU 524.2 13.7%
Point is it’s not appearing outside of a few headbanger publications of the same stock. But I don’t know enough about the detail to assess it other than that.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Services includes selling of financial products by the City, it's not exactly like exporting goods which have a multi-tiered supply chain.
The City of London far from being a crown jewel is a leech.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
In isolation maybe but in the real world consequences aren’t based upon one result in one area.
It’s kind of like celebrating regaining full functionality in your left hand after years of operations and rehabilitation after deliberately crashing your car saying that will show those who said I was stupid for deliberately crashing my car. Without mentioning that you also lost both your legs in that same deliberate crash.
Fact is where trade is concerned with brexit nearly all the deals we signed were roll over deals we enjoyed anyway, the Australia and New Zealand deals are a heavily weighted joke in favour of Australia and New Zealand, just ask the farmers who have been protesting the last coupe of weeks. The Japan deal is a copy and paste of the one the EU signed so we’d still have it and Canada is a mitigated disaster as they’re calling all the shots so we’ve now missed out on the excellent deal we would have had had we remained in the EU. Then there’s the backdrop of the cost of importing. Sorry but you’re going have to do better than an article in the Express quoting Kemi Badenoch who is clearly out of her depth and probably doesn’t even understand the figures as the Canada trade deal, or lack there of has exposed.
interesting and slightly dramatic analogy
I only posted the city am link after seeing posters questioning hamertimes post and googling it myself
Every bit of bad news is banded around like it’s the end of the world, it’s nice if there’s the odd bit of positive news to counter that
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
I think you're wrong and this is a smokescreen to cover for the other brexit related story this week which is tariffs being added to the import of certain food stuffs which is predicted to increase inflation.
Something which will have a greater affect on your average man and woman in the street.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
The other thing with this story is absolutely nothing points to our performance would have been worse had we remained in the EU. If anything evidence suggests it would be better. Even if you want to ignore that we fell to 7th place in the first place as a direct consequence of brexit.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
It’s not positive though. Even in isolation it’s neutral at best. All we’ve done is return to the position we were once at having dropped to 7th because of brexit.
Hardly a smokescreen, the additional tariffs have been talked about for the past couple of weeks and I’m sure will be even more so at the end of the month when they kick in
The world export table story is based on data from released from the UN it’s not just a random story. I did try to check when data was released to see if the story has been timed to coincide with the tariff stuff but can’t see. Either way you can have positive and negative stories about the same subject…maybe not in some papers/media though
Ps the estimated impact on inflation from new tariffs is possibly 0.2% and ultimately it’s up to EU exporters whether they pass this on. The recent rise in oil will dwarf this
FFS Tony. The comment was that it was a positive news story. Not whether Brexit was good or bad for the country.
It’s like saying if City have moved up to 6th in the league and someone saying but we were 5th end of last season so it’s not really a positive.
If the negative news is going to to be shared ie us moving down to 7th, then so should the news that we’ve gone up to 4th. That’s my only point
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skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
There has to be a gain though Steve for it to be positive. It’s being sold as a brexit is awesome story, see the OP as the perfect example. You can’t detract from what brexit was sold as. We held all the cards, we’ve had our pants pulled down by two economies whose combined worth is less than ours, 1 ranking 14th in the world the other 46th. And now Canada who ranks 4 places below us are calling the shots while we’ve forfeited an excellent trade deal with them by leaving the EU. Food will be cheaper, Immigration will go down, we can spend the money on the NHS instead etc etc etc. We’re clutching at straws when we start claiming something staying the same is a victory. I suppose that you could argue that against the backdrop of all the failures no change is a positive but it’s still an oxymoron in the big scheme of things.
Ironically the only wins seem to come from the City of London which has just been described as a leech by one brexit cheerleader. Still, I’m sure the EU wanting to standardise laws that would have clamped down on the UK being the world’s biggest facilitator of tax avoidance and money laundering through the city of London and our oversea territories had nothing to do with the Barclays, Rees Mogg types wanting to leave the EU.
Or if you’re British Sugar you’re now free to used known bee killing pesticides you couldn’t use while we were in the EU. Still at least their MD isn’t married to a cabinet minister who ironically was a remainer, every cloud.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Non executive director absolutely pointless at the post office hearings today
Wonder what he was paid for the post. Not sure people give a shit do they just attend a meeting take minutes fuck around get paid retire with a knighthood
Wonder what he was paid for the post. Not sure people give a shit do they just attend a meeting take minutes fuck around get paid retire with a knighthood
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
I agree the inflation rise will be minimal, (if it happens), but that will still impact people more than increased out put from the city, (we all know where any benefits from that will end up).
If this was record output from manufacturing or food exports then yes, it would be great news.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
It’s also going to mainly affect food inflation which currently is running at about 4.5% which is over a percent higher than overall inflation. People will feel it more in their pocket than any effect in overall inflation would suggest.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Sub-postmistress jailed while pregnant rejects ex-Post Office boss' apology
Seema Misra was pregnant when she was wrongly jailed after being prosecuted by the Post Office.
www.bbc.co.uk
We live and work amongst Xxxts like this!!
Utter wanker
SBAndy
Well-Known Member
Sub-postmistress jailed while pregnant rejects ex-Post Office boss' apology
Seema Misra was pregnant when she was wrongly jailed after being prosecuted by the Post Office.www.bbc.co.uk
We live and work amongst Xxxts like this!!
Utter wanker
Bit harsh, Pete. It says she was wrongly jailed.