Do you want to discuss boring politics? (22 Viewers)

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Philosoraptor

Philosoraptor

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
The US only does 2 types of politics. Right and further right.
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I can't smile at this enough

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This was not always the case though.

The Democrats were once on the right of the Republicans, and also New Deal - Wikipedia

Trickle-down economics from giving businesses tac cuts etc hoping it would gradually appear in workers wages, verses large Government expenditure on public projects to kick off the economy by putting money directly into the hands of the worker.

WW2 came just at the right time for America economically.
 
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rob9872

rob9872

Well-Known Member
Imagine my surprise to see Rayner was at Starmers lockdown party on the booze.

Oh but we weren't as bad as partygate ....

What was it they were called on here? Criminals?
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
rob9872 said:
Imagine my surprise to see Rayner was at Starmers lockdown party on the booze.

Oh but we weren't as bad as partygate ....

What was it they were called on here? Criminals?
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Well no because the police rightly say being in a room someone else was in 20 minutes earlier while working was never actually illegal.

In other news I hear Boris has a bridge for sale, DM me if interested and I’ll sort you out.
 
Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
rob9872 said:
Imagine my surprise to see Rayner was at Starmers lockdown party on the booze.

Oh but we weren't as bad as partygate ....

What was it they were called on here? Criminals?
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Well, even if it was what you say it was (which it appears it isn't...) it wouldn't be as bad as partygate. Because this is one incident compared to an almost endless parade of things that broke the rules.

Also amazing how those people that thought we should move on/no-one bothered about party's/let's not waste police time are now demanding these things be looked in to. I assume that you are now therefore vehemenetly demanding the investigation of Johnson for numerous offences and expect him to be removed from office along with any other Tories at the many parties in Downing St?

If it were true and rules were deliberately broken I would expect both Starmer and Rayner to resign. Just as I expected the PM, Chancellor and every other minister involved to do the same.
 
oakey

oakey

Well-Known Member
I wonder what the Boris fans are hoping to achieve with this #durhampartygate thing?
Been reading their twitter thread and they claim to be motivated by "It's only fair" that KS and AR be shamed and pressured to resign. But they cannot really want that because if they are motivated by "It's only fair" then they would have to acknowledge that
KS + AR = 1 "event"
doesn't come anywhere near
BJ etc = 15 "events".
If they genuinely wanted fairness they would be calling for BJ to shamed and punished at least as much if not more than KS and AR.
So I have concluded that it cannot be about "It's only fair".
It is about,
1) "They're all as bad as each other". If we believe all politicians are crooks then we don't have to think any more and weigh up issues and candidates. We can just vote for those we like or for purely selfish reasons.
Which leads to,
2) They love BJ and will go to any lengths to discredit his opponents and protect him. It's a cult.

They are dangerous people.
I do know that they don't really want anyone to resign. They just want to trash the opposition.
For my part I think our politics is now in the gutter and I've no idea how we get to a saner place.
 
duffer

duffer

Well-Known Member
rob9872 said:
Imagine my surprise to see Rayner was at Starmers lockdown party on the booze.

Oh but we weren't as bad as partygate ....

What was it they were called on here? Criminals?
Click to expand...

If Starmer or Rayner are issued with an FPN, then yes, I think they need to step down.

That's because, unlike you and your hypocritical Tory MPs, I genuinely believe in standards in public office.

At one time, whether you stood to the left or the right, there was a consensus on this. But that's gone now, possibly forever, wrecked by the so called party of law and order.

And why, so that one man, a proven liar before taking office, and now a proven liar whilst in office, can remain in power.
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
duffer said:
If Starmer or Rayner are issued with an FPN, then yes, I think they need to step down.

That's because, unlike you and your hypocritical Tory MPs, I genuinely believe in standards in public office.

At one time, whether you stood to the left or the right, there was a consensus on this. But that's gone now, possibly forever, wrecked by the so called party of law and order.

And why, so that one man, a proven liar before taking office, and now a proven liar whilst in office, can remain in power.
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It would be crazy for Starmer and Rayner to be issued with a FPN/resign for having a beer at work with colleagues who they were working with all the time, as it was for Johnson and Sunak on Johnson’s birthday. I’ve always felt these ‘events’ are subjective and open to interpretation

The police have dug themselves a massive hole here by setting the bar so low, potentially as have Labour by majoring on partygate saying Johnson and Sunak should resign after those first FPNs

The ‘BYO booze event’ looks and sounds like a party where fines should be issued
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
duffer said:
If Starmer or Rayner are issued with an FPN, then yes, I think they need to step down.

That's because, unlike you and your hypocritical Tory MPs, I genuinely believe in standards in public office.

At one time, whether you stood to the left or the right, there was a consensus on this. But that's gone now, possibly forever, wrecked by the so called party of law and order.

And why, so that one man, a proven liar before taking office, and now a proven liar whilst in office, can remain in power.
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This.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
duffer said:
If Starmer or Rayner are issued with an FPN, then yes, I think they need to step down.

That's because, unlike you and your hypocritical Tory MPs, I genuinely believe in standards in public office.

At one time, whether you stood to the left or the right, there was a consensus on this. But that's gone now, possibly forever, wrecked by the so called party of law and order.

And why, so that one man, a proven liar before taking office, and now a proven liar whilst in office, can remain in power.
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The biggest joke is they'd have a far more competent Tory government if they elected a far more competent leader anyway, so I genuinely don't understand the attachment to the liberal who only joined the Tories for vain personal ambition, and can't be arsed to actually do any work.
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
Deleted member 5849 said:
The biggest joke is they'd have a far more competent Tory government if they elected a far more competent leader anyway, so I genuinely don't understand the attachment to the liberal who only joined the Tories for vain personal ambition, and can't be arsed to actually do any work.
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Standard politics these days mate. Don’t like the word but footballification, people digging in and supporting their side whatever. Not healthy but that’s what happens with social media/echo chambers
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
CCFCSteve said:
Standard politics these days mate. Don’t like the word but footballification, people digging in and supporting their side whatever. Not healthy but that’s what happens with social media/echo chambers
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It's ludicrous though. Johnson ain't a Tory in his traditional spending ideas. In fact, the idea of raising taxes and spunking cash sounds good to this particular lefty! If he wasn't such a workshy two-faced buffoon, he'd be the type of Tory I could tolerate, in fact... apart from his pact with the ERG devil that pushes him right, of course.

But I don't see why any sane person who's disposed to voting Tory would want him there, given his incompetence and traditional deviation from Tory cuts to everything mantra, bar the fact he's unfathomably popular with some who see him as a man of the people.

*Which* people maybe ought to be considered, however!
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
CCFCSteve said:
Standard politics these days mate. Don’t like the word but footballification, people digging in and supporting their side whatever. Not healthy but that’s what happens with social media/echo chambers
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I think it’s more the fact that Johnson has had a unique ability to win and can deliver some blows in an election campaign - it’s clearly a leap of faith now but he has always seemed to get lucky breaks in politics while Starmer has something of a nearly man look about him
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
Deleted member 5849 said:
It's ludicrous though. Johnson ain't a Tory in his traditional spending ideas. In fact, the idea of raising taxes and spunking cash sounds good to this particular lefty! If he wasn't such a workshy two-faced buffoon, he'd be the type of Tory I could tolerate, in fact... apart from his pact with the ERG devil that pushes him right, of course.

But I don't see why any sane person who's disposed to voting Tory would want him there, given his incompetence and traditional deviation from Tory cuts to everything mantra, bar the fact he's unfathomably popular with some who see him as a man of the people.

*Which* people maybe ought to be considered, however!
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You love him really 😊
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
Grendel said:
I think it’s more the fact that Johnson has had a unique ability to win and can deliver some blows in an election campaign
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He does, but if you're a dyed in the wool Tory you're not getting what you want with him anyway. When Corbyn was leader of the opposition there was maybe a logic of fear of the beardy lefty, but Starmer doesn't exactly have that threat about him, does he!

In fact Johnson's wins have all been against... eccentric lefties, given Livingstone pushed him pretty hard in mayoral elections. Johnson hasn't really been tested against 'normal'.
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
I think it’s more the fact that Johnson has had a unique ability to win and can deliver some blows in an election campaign - it’s clearly a leap of faith now but he has always seemed to get lucky breaks in politics while Starmer has something of a nearly man look about him
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There’s definitely some of that. Transactional, think he can still win another election for them etc. Im not convinced but as I was saying when Tories were miles ahead in polls last summer and BSB was packing his bags, a couple of years is a long time in politics
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
CCFCSteve said:
There’s definitely some of that. Transactional, think he can still win another election for them etc. Im not convinced but as I was saying when Tories were miles ahead in polls last summer and BSB was packing his bags, a couple of years is a long time in politics
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The only reason Tories will still be in government next election if Johnson stays is because it'd take such a huge shift to do otherwise - same reason Blair ended up with a third term.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Deleted member 5849 said:
He does, but if you're a dyed in the wool Tory you're not getting what you want with him anyway. When Corbyn was leader of the opposition there was maybe a logic of fear of the beardy lefty, but Starmer doesn't exactly have that threat about him, does he!

In fact Johnson's wins have all been against... eccentric lefties, given Livingstone pushed him pretty hard in mayoral elections. Johnson hasn't really been tested against 'normal'.
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If I said Johnson was a liberal then certain posters on here would laugh and guffaw as he’s perceived by some as far right

Of course if he had all his own way he’d be spending like a drunken sailor but there are some constraints

It’s no different really to people who really believed in Corbyn now voting for someone whose more aligned to David Cameron and Boris Johnson than the person he apparently was named after

More so the person who I assume would run the economic policy. Rachel Reeves is far more Nigel Lawson than John McDonnell. She’s a Tory plant I’m sure
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
CCFCSteve said:
I still think Labour majority is most likely. Next 12 months Labour/Starmer need to start ramping up policy though
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I think it’s true that to achieve a majority labour would have to have the biggest swing in history - and that would give them a 1 seat majority
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
Grendel said:
If I said Johnson was a liberal then certain posters on here would laugh and guffaw as he’s perceived by some as far right
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The main concern I have with Johnson's ideology is it's more attuned to what's best for him, and there are definite signs he's had to align himself with ERG mentalists in order to keep power. What he's always shown is he's been prepared to sacrifice his principles for himself time and again.

The 'traditional' Johnson, ideologically, isn't overly repulsive to left-of-centre. The one in the pocket of the ERG is possibly the worst of all worlds however, that he's both incompetent, *and* reactionary!
 
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