Do you want to discuss boring politics? (19 Viewers)

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

As someone else has put it today. Dorries thinks she’s the only person in the world that Boris doesn’t lie too. On that basis I don’t feel sorry for her at all.

But that means she thinks he lies to everybody else, including the voters, and yet she thinks he's the best choice to lead the country

 

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[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

What seems to be lost is that the word judgement is the problem. Whether it’s one word, an 8 page document or a report card.

HMI and OFSTED are not fit for purpose because they have long forgotten that they should be driving school improvement not just measuring it.

I agree.

If schools are rated less than good, then that's a judgement on OFSTED as much as the school.

 

[shmmeee]

I think the most disappointing thing about this Conservative government is back in the Osbourne days and in the early Sunak days there was all this talk of them being tech focused and finally understanding tech. Turns out they meant they’d used Excel and watched Star Wars…

 

[Deleted member 9744]

I agree.

If schools are rated less than good, then that's a judgement on OFSTED as much as the school.

Why?

 

[Ian1779]

Why?

There are schools out there that simply can’t recruit adequately. There are lots of factors that impact this, leadership and management, funding, location for example.
So what are HMI/OFSTED doing to help with these?
If staff retention is an issue, HMI should be looking into why, and could be providing support to address and resolve.
If staffing is difficult to attract because of funding or location then the DfE (on behalf of HMI) can direct training providers to place staff in these schools (billions has been spent on contracts for Teach First, Ambition and lots of other local and national providers)

Going around driving school leaders to leave the profession (and at the very worst a Ruth Perry scenario) with their narrow judgements helps no one.
Everyone in education should be committed to the central mantra of giving kids the best start in life. HMI/OFSTED/DfE shouldn’t be separate from that, and when it fails culpability should also rest with them.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Why?

Because if they're the ones telling them they're bad it's also part of their job to tell them why and help them improve.

The entire system is flawed and leads far too much towards teaching towards exams. There's more to education than that.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Miles ahead in the polls allegedly yet still going further and further right



Only a mug would vote for this bunch

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[shmmeee]

Miles ahead in the polls allegedly yet still going further and further right



Only a mug would vote for this bunch

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

I can see a U-Turn here. Even lots of centre right commentators wondering what the fuck they’re doing now.

 

[clint van damme]

Miles ahead in the polls allegedly yet still going further and further right



Only a mug would vote for this bunch

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Not voting at the next election is turning from a difficult choice to a very easy one.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Not voting at the next election is turning from a difficult choice to a very easy one.

We have to take what’s an offer and urge it to be better
Have you ever been involved

 

[shmmeee]

We have to take what’s an offer and urge it to be better
Have you ever been involved

Got to be honest Pete, intellectually I’m fully on board. But my god it’s hard to say vote for them when they do stuff like this. Just economic madness quite frankly. They seem to think everyone wants to hear how little money they’ll spend when the country is broken in very basic ways that need fixing. No one out there who is sane is worried about debt and deficits right now.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Got to be honest Pete, intellectually I’m fully on board. But my god it’s hard to say vote for them when they do stuff like this. Just economic madness quite frankly. They seem to think everyone wants to hear how little money they’ll spend when the country is broken in very basic ways that need fixing. No one out there who is sane is worried about debt and deficits right now.

Fuck if your saying that the whole system is in danger
Decisions are taken by those in the room
Decisions are taken by those with the responsibility of being in the position of making those decisions
If socialist labour isn’t the answer for the country at large and the tories have abandoned all their desire to be respectful but wrong
What can we hope for?

 

[clint van damme]

We have to take what’s an offer and urge it to be better
Have you ever been involved

Sorry, but I don't agree. If the main parties are so far away from where you want them to be then voting for the sake of it just doesn't appeal to me I'm afraid.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

It is uninspiring. It isn't quite as bad as the headline mind, as it seems to be reduce the limit for 'free' childcare on over threes from those earning £100k to something lower, in order that those in need get genuinely free childcare that will be accepted by nurseries, for under threes.

Not going to defend it, but that appears to be the position. What I'm not clear on is whether the £100k is across household or each individual.

 

[shmmeee]

Fuck if your saying that the whole system is in danger
Decisions are taken by those in the room
Decisions are taken by those with the responsibility of being in the position of making those decisions
If socialist labour isn’t the answer for the country at large and the tories have abandoned all their desire to be respectful but wrong
What can we hope for?

I just want a normal evidence based government that tries to improve the basics. Im not looking for socialist utopia and I accept the political realities of the gap between public opinion and my beliefs.

It can’t all be bread and no jam. The country is broken in so many places. People need a light at the end of the tunnel not told the beating will continue until morale improves.

 

[skybluetony176]

The only problem I have with not voting is that ultimately it’s a de facto vote for the winner. Especially if you live in a marginal seat. If Labour, Lib Dem or Greens have the best chance of turning my constituency away from the Tories then that’s who I’m voting for. Rugby has been a safe seat for the Tories for as long as I can remember but with the current MP stepping down and things being what they are this is probably the GE where my vote might finally count under FPP. I’m not going to lose that opportunity.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

. Rugby has been a safe seat for the Tories for as long as I can remember

You have a very short memory!

 

[Ian1779]

Fuck if your saying that the whole system is in danger
Decisions are taken by those in the room
Decisions are taken by those with the responsibility of being in the position of making those decisions
If socialist labour isn’t the answer for the country at large and the tories have abandoned all their desire to be respectful but wrong
What can we hope for?

If you give your vote to Starmer and his current offer then you are essentially saying that the shit he is offering is OK.
Maybe the short term solution is that people simply withhold their vote, there will be enough in reality that will get him over the line and into power. If he was to get into to Downing St with less than 10m votes for example thats quite a damning indictment.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

If you give your vote to Starmer and his current offer then you are essentially saying that the shit he is offering is OK.
Maybe the short term solution is that people simply withhold their vote, there will be enough in reality that will get him over the line and into power. If he was to get into to Downing St with less than 10m votes for example thats quite a damning indictment.

Would just mean more apathy
Decisions are taken by those that engage
Change what you can or maybe can be bothered to accept what you can’t ??

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

If you give your vote to Starmer and his current offer then you are essentially saying that the shit he is offering is OK.
Maybe the short term solution is that people simply withhold their vote, there will be enough in reality that will get him over the line and into power. If he was to get into to Downing St with less than 10m votes for example thats quite a damning indictment.

I don't think they'd care.

They'd probably think "well, we won so we're doing the right thing." Doesn't matter if it's a tiny amount - it's a win. In their own heads they'd probably say that it was appealing to the right that won it for them.

And then there is the other option. Enough people are turned off and Tories sneak in as they can rely on their core voters to vote for them whatever. And then we've got fiver more years of their shit, and can you imagine what they'd be like if they were able to remain in power after all the shit of the last few years? They'd feel absolutely bulletproof.

As it stands I can see quite a gain for the LD's and Greens, as Scotland may well be turning away from the SNP given what's going on there and people not being enthused by Starmer and thinking that Labour will win it anyway.

 

[Grendel]

I don't think they'd care.

They'd probably think "well, we won so we're doing the right thing." Doesn't matter if it's a tiny amount - it's a win. In their own heads they'd probably say that it was appealing to the right that won it for them.

And then there is the other option. Enough people are turned off and Tories sneak in as they can rely on their core voters to vote for them whatever. And then we've got fiver more years of their shit, and can you imagine what they'd be like if they were able to remain in power after all the shit of the last few years? They'd feel absolutely bulletproof.

As it stands I can see quite a gain for the LD's and Greens, as Scotland may well be turning away from the SNP given what's going on there and people not being enthused by Starmer and thinking that Labour will win it anyway.

The tories won’t get in. Even the reform party is tracking at 7% - I think anyone voting for the Lib Dems should be sectioned under the mental health act

 

[Grendel]

The only problem I have with not voting is that ultimately it’s a de facto vote for the winner. Especially if you live in a marginal seat. If Labour, Lib Dem or Greens have the best chance of turning my constituency away from the Tories then that’s who I’m voting for. Rugby has been a safe seat for the Tories for as long as I can remember but with the current MP stepping down and things being what they are this is probably the GE where my vote might finally count under FPP. I’m not going to lose that opportunity.

Eh? It was labour under Blair wasn’t it?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

The tories won’t get in. Even the reform party is tracking at 7% - I think anyone voting for the Lib Dems should be sectioned under the mental health act

It'd be a hell of a shock if the Tories got back in and would eclipse even the Kinnock debacle, but given the way things are going I'm preparing myself for any eventuality.

I think LD's will improve mainly due to Scotland, which was a strong area for them pre-SNP. Then depending on thier manifesto could pick up a few from Labour who are moving to the right, while the Greens may pick up a few of the more left leaning Labour voters.

 

[Ian1779]

Would just mean more apathy
Decisions are taken by those that engage
Change what you can or maybe can be bothered to accept what you can’t ??

Not sure I understand your point.
Choosing to withhold your vote is apathy, but voting through what you know is bullshit is engagement?

 

[Grendel]

Not sure I understand your point.
Choosing to withhold your vote is apathy, but voting through what you know is bullshit is engagement?

It’s a bizarre argument. Basically the colour of the rosette determines your vote

If turnout was less than 50% it would send a huge message to the political establishment

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Not sure I understand your point.
Choosing to withhold your vote is apathy, but voting through what you know is bullshit is engagement?

Not engaging is apathy. Is voting truly changing anything?
i mean fully engage with the local party with things that make a difference

 

[Grendel]

Not engaging is apathy. Is voting truly changing anything?
i mean fully engage with the local party with things that make a difference

If no one in the country voted would that be apathy?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

It’s a bizarre argument. Basically the colour of the rosette determines your vote

If turnout was less than 50% it would send a huge message to the political establishment

It would embolden nationalists I reckon
Minority rule would just disengage more and more people and it wasn’t my argument it was a misunderstanding of my point

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

If no one in the country voted would that be apathy?

Voting is the bare minimum of engagement for me. Happy if you want to spoil the paper but just not bothering yep absolutely is

 

[shmmeee]

It’s a bizarre argument. Basically the colour of the rosette determines your vote

If turnout was less than 50% it would send a huge message to the political establishment

Course it would. That’s why so many councils are now peoples republics.

This is Russell Brand level analysis.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

It’s a bizarre argument. Basically the colour of the rosette determines your vote

If turnout was less than 50% it would send a huge message to the political establishment

I agree, but the result would still be valid. And therein lies the problem.

If you don't vote because you don't like the positions of any of the parties/candidates, then you run the risk of ending up with the worst option of the lot. So to prevent that you end up having to hold your nose and voting for the least worst option to prevent that. If only one person voted in an entire constituency, whoever received that one vote would still be elected.

It needs a rule that says any turnout below 50% or something makes the result invalid and the contest has to be run again. And that none of the existing candidates can run. There's a minimum turnout requirement required for strike action, so why isn't there one for voting who runs the country?

 

[Ian1779]

Not engaging is apathy. Is voting truly changing anything?
i mean fully engage with the local party with things that make a difference

To be truthful I tried that Pete, but my local CLP spent most of 2018 trying to claim that a peoples vote would put Labour back in Downing St.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

To be truthful I tried that Pete, but my local CLP spent most of 2018 trying to claim that a peoples vote would put Labour back in Downing St.

I know I’ve tried that too

 

[skybluetony176]

You have a very short memory!

Bad memory is the phrase you’re looking for

 

[shmmeee]

To be truthful I tried that Pete, but my local CLP spent most of 2018 trying to claim that a peoples vote would put Labour back in Downing St.

Im not sure 2015-19 is a great time to take the temperature of your average CLP meeting TBF.