Do you want to discuss boring politics? (16 Viewers)

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PVA

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
So what’s your answer guys? No more infrastructure? Just in case someone gets paid more than you feel they should?
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No that's not what I was saying. Just replying to Tony's post to back up what he was saying with some personal experience - which I appreciate is hardly a stunning revelation!
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
PVA said:
No that's not what I was saying. Just replying to Tony's post to back up what he was saying with some personal experience - which I appreciate is hardly a stunning revelation!
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Just frustrated. None of the complaints are about the actual project. It’s all vague stuff and general moans about government stuff costing a lot. No one, even the government says what they’d do to solve the problems it solves instead. As if we’re going to get local projects off the ground when we can’t build ones of national importance. You’re giving people an easy way to stop all projects by constantly hiking the price up with complaints.
 
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PVA

Well-Known Member
Hunt turns to his concluding remarks.

He goes on to praise the PM "whose own life story shows you just what's possible with education, aspiration and hard work".

Hunt says Sunak's story is "our story".
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Excuse Me Wow GIF by Mashable
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
So what’s your answer guys? No more infrastructure? Just in case someone gets paid more than you feel they should?
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The answer is do it right. Like other countries. I accept no two countries are the same for a broad range of reasons but for some reason we obviously pay over the odds. Just on the tunnelling excuse alone if we’d subcontracted the building out to the Japanese government they could tunnelled the whole thing and been considerably cheaper than we’re doing it with little tunnelling in comparison to the size of the project.
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
The answer is do it right. Like other countries. I accept no two countries are the same for a broad range of reasons but for some reason we obviously pay over the odds. Just on the tunnelling excuse alone if we’d subcontracted the building out to the Japanese government they could tunnelled the whole thing and been considerably cheaper than we’re doing it with little tunnelling in comparison to the size of the project.
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But we didn’t. The money is spent. The decisions are taken. Any change in direction will end up costing more. We’ve got to bite the bullet, get it built, then take a serious look at how we plan and build infrastructure so it never happens again.
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
But we didn’t. The money is spent. The decisions are taken. Any change in direction will end up costing more. We’ve got to bite the bullet, get it built, then take a serious look at how we plan and build infrastructure so it never happens again.
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I was reading that the decision to “pause” the old oak to Euston leg is going to cost an extra £360M mainly because 2 tunnellers have to be parked. And the pause of 2 years will actually cause a delay of 3.5-4 years in total construction time which will push the price up again should a government wish to complete just that small stretch.
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
I was reading that the decision to “pause” the old oak to Euston leg is going to cost an extra £360M mainly because 2 tunnellers have to be parked. And the pause of 2 years will actually cause a delay of 3.5-4 years in total construction time which will push the price up again should a government wish to complete just that small stretch.
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Why Me Wall GIF by Jiji.ng - Nigerian Marketplace
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
But we didn’t. The money is spent. The decisions are taken. Any change in direction will end up costing more. We’ve got to bite the bullet, get it built, then take a serious look at how we plan and build infrastructure so it never happens again.
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Just to add that I do actually agree with the bite the bullet stance. Problem I have now if it gets cancelled they think that’s the answer to what was a badly managed project from day one that has just gotten worse and worse. The only real answer is manage it better from day one. The government I seem to remember were getting hit with penalties pretty much from day one due to delaying and pausing decisions. Some I don’t doubt were caused by things like consultation with communities etc but not all by any stretch of the imagination.
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
Just to add that I do actually agree with the bite the bullet stance. Problem I have now if it gets cancelled they think that’s the answer to what was a badly managed project from day one that has just gotten worse and worse. The only real answer is manage it better from day one. The government I seem to remember were getting hit with penalties pretty much from day one due to delaying and pausing decisions. Some I don’t doubt were caused by things like consultation with communities etc but not all by any stretch of the imagination.
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If it takes eleventy billion to finally get government to sort its shit out it’s worth every penny.
 
fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
PVA said:
There is zero value for money for the taxpayer on HS2 in terms of project costs, I can speak from experience on that.

Too many layers of subcontractors that each put their cut on top to turn a £10k job into a £100k job.
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One of the big problems with major infrastructure is the government's aversion to employing technical experts at market rates, therefore the expertise all sits with the market and everything costs a fortune.
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
If it takes eleventy billion to finally get government to sort its shit out it’s worth every penny.
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It’s difficult because we’re talking about huge sums of money but I’m old enough to remember all the same arguments about the M25. Can’t imagine navigating London now without it. We didn’t know at the time what great value for money it turned out to be, can’t help but feel that the decision to not complete HS2 will be lamented in a relatively short period of time, maybe even within a decade or two, and we’ll end up building it eventually at even more cost.
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
It’s difficult because we’re talking about huge sums of money but I’m old enough to remember all the same arguments about the M25. Can’t imagine navigating London now without it. We didn’t know at the time what great value for money it turned out to be, can’t help but feel that the decision to not complete HS2 will be lamented in a relatively short period of time, maybe even within a decade or two, and we’ll end up building it eventually at even more cost.
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With a change in Govt?
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
You can’t blame anyone for thinking that the Tories are setting a trap for the next government. Then again Labour might be secretly delighted that the Tories are cancelling it so they won’t have to deal with it.
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How’s it a trap. The red wall northern seats want it. If labour win they’ll have to “deal with it” anyways as they’d be in power. Surely it’s an opportunity for them to advance the argument
 
fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
How’s it a trap. The red wall northern seats want it. If labour win they’ll have to “deal with it” anyways as they’d be in power. Surely it’s an opportunity for them to advance the argument
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Andy Burnham is pro but not sure Starmer would nail his colours to it
 
David O'Day

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
It's blue on blue violence over HS2 and Truss stalking around like they are mad enough (and probably are) to give another shot.


I get why he wants to wait until autumn winter 2024 for the next election but a spring one would be bettwe for him. There will be not be another crushing local election defeat to get through for him and he might not be as damage

Nothing he will do will save them now, even their war on "green crap" is costing them 2019 tory voters
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
David O'Day said:
It's blue on blue violence over HS2 and Truss stalking around like they are mad enough (and probably are) to give another shot.


I get why he wants to wait until autumn winter 2024 for the next election but a spring one would be bettwe for him. There will be not be another crushing local election defeat to get through for him and he might not be as damage

Nothing he will do will save them now, even their war on "green crap" is costing them 2019 tory voters
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Did I hear correctly that Kemi had a stab at Braverman over her failure of multiculturalism comment?
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
David O'Day said:
they are retrenching into their middle england heartlands so they can hold as much of that and rebuild after the next election
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They probably are. But the just build it argument is farcical when they always started with the wrong half, and it doesn't make sense for many of the reasons you mention, as it rides through and alienates swathes of blue blooded Tory. Start with the Northern half and it could have actually been to their benefit!
 
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