clint van damme
Well-Known Member
Bit unfair on Liz
Do you want to discuss boring politics? (18 Viewers)
- Thread starter mrtrench
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Bit unfair on Liz
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
I mean it’s the one thing Truss got right. I suspect the policy solutions will differ slightly though.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
We've had economic growth for most of the last 13 years apart from the COVID years. In the meantime people have become worse off. Why is it suddenly going to be the magical solution?
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shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Even if you want to borrow you need growth. If you want wages up you need growth. Specifically you need productivity but they’re essentially the same thing.
The Tories have squandered any growth post 2010, the growth 1997-2010 resulted in improved public services, which most lefties are quite a fan of.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
Fuck me!
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I have to be honest I just when I see Michael Fabricant get disturbing images of him and Andy Street engaging in sexual activity - it’s genuinely traumatising
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
If I was the raider I'd be giving him his marching orders after that video
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Lee Anderson obviously knows his political income is going to be gone very soon. He has a bit to go though before his Wheel Tapper and shunters social club act is perfected - the northern comedy act is a tough place to survive - he should have asked Michael if he keeps his wig on when his giving Andy a BJ - that’s the thing to get a laugh
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
He’s the kind of parody act you’d see at the end of a Phoenix Nights episode.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
This is exciting if you're some sort of FBPE bore
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Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
Well, not really.
As has been pointed out we've had growth for a lot of the Tories being in power. What matters is WHERE the growth is. If it's all at the top then it's arguably worse than no growth at all, unless like Liz you believe in the bullshit that is trickle down.
Why one of the first things I'd do in power is publish median and modal wages alongside the mean. If the mean is going up but the other two aren't, or even going down, then that's a massive problem.
jimmyhillsfanclub
Well-Known Member
It'll be interesting to see how the vote goes for Unites motion of re-nationalisation.
I'm guessing it'll be the same as last time. The people want it. The Nowhere Man Starmer doesn't. Prick.
I'm guessing it'll be the same as last time. The people want it. The Nowhere Man Starmer doesn't. Prick.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
As always I’m in the middle on this. Rail, water and energy yes please. I think you can do some of that over time with investment like GB Energy if done properly. I’m not convinced Starmer is doing it properly mind.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Yeah but what do you want? It was never going to be McDonnell 2.0. I think planning reform is the right focus, proper living wage (I’ll wait until I see the details), workers rights from day one, improved sick pay, no ZHC all good things.
Most importantly if I was politically neutral there’s an element of hope there that despite Sunak constantly saying that’s what he was doing, was distinctly lacking from Tory Conference last week.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
I haven't seen the whole thing, just saw the stuff about how she'd borrow when public debt was falling overall. Seemed a weird and unnecessary condition. The planning stuff is good as is the day 1 rights.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
I think you’ve got to accept that’s the economic model they’re going with to reduce attacks from the Tories. Blair came in promising no new spending as well IIRC. Sadly I think it may be a prerequisite to getting elected in the UK for now.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
The problem is, for example, I heard Wes Streeting being interviewed yesterday and he was laying out what he planned to do, and it sounded fine, and at the end the interviewer said you won't be able to do that under the restraints imposed by Rachael Reeves and he just started mumbling and stuttering.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Well that’s where the rubber meets the road. If she can’t get growth the whole thing falls apart but I think she’s going about it the right way so far.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
It's frustrating that the implication is that government spending doesn't benefit the economy
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shmmeee
Well-Known Member
I think it’s more chicken and egg “well spend on stuff that will benefit the economy once we’ve got an economy that allows us to spend on stuff”
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
Well that shouldn't be the case. That just exacerbates problems.
Govt should almost be doing the opposite of the private sector - spending during a downturn to kickstart the economy and recouping a bit when times are good - in order to flatten the line. It's the closest you're ever going to get to ending boom and bust.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
I agree. I just think it’s a hard sell in the current UK climate. Hopefully less so than it was, but “Labour spend too much” is still the number one complaint I hear.
duffer
Well-Known Member
The positive cost benefit of HS2 is *exactly* where it all falls down. That's precisely where I came in.
Have you read the any of the dissenting opinions. This one is well researched and clearly stated, and from someone with access to the data and no axe to grind...
It's a little odd how you can support Reeves, the 'iron chancellor', who sounds like Maggie, acts like Maggie, and has shown herself entirely happy to go along with Tory austerity plans both now and in the future, whilst simultaneously demanding the taps stay open for HS2 no matter the cost.
Hopefully, this link works...
Review of High Speed 2 - Dissenting Report - About Tony Berkeley
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Nowt like a report that uses evidence from Michael Byng! The whole premise of it seems to be about increasing the number of seats available to travel to London? Is it deliberately missing the point?
Lots of the suggestions made in it sound optimistic at best - e.g. how's he going to 4 track the Rugby to Birmingham line through 7 miles of Coventry and at what cost? Loads of rough estimates of cost of alternatives with no obvious basis. No recognition that this cost brings you a tiny bit of extra capacity but in reality little material extra capacity or flexibility.
£128bn to upgrade existing lines vs £187bn his estimate for HS2. However, the upgrade will mean 2700 weekend possessions (i.e. part of the railway being unavailable for a weekend for 52 years) vs just 22 for HS2.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Ive read it. It’s the same argument you’re making. Lots of conjecture, lots of “I don’t believe the experts” lots of studiously avoiding your opponents points.
Are you seriously saying we don’t need a high speed connection on modern tracks between our major cities? That’s the question you keep avoiding, not to mention capacity on existing lines.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Recovering alcoholics and you won’t convince me otherwise
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Id rather stick to being an alcoholic
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
The other point to make is that Berkeley's own fag packet budgeting is even more vulnerable to cost pressures than the HS2 budget
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This is a sensible approach. As we saw with Truss, anything ‘unfunded’ for day to day stuff will, rightly or wrongly, be slaughtered by the markets.
The alternative is to start suggesting theyll spend more but that it will require higher taxes…unlikely to an election winner especially in the middle of a cost of living crisis
Their first job is to get into power and whether people like the approach or not, Starmer and Reeves have rebuilt labours credibility when it comes to the economy/public finances so the strategy does appear to be working. The problems will be if shadow ministers start suggesting they can deliver more than perceived to be affordable as Clint mentioned about streeting
Still waiting for the long term vision/plan from any party.
stay_up_skyblues
Well-Known Member
Whilst he was lapping up the applause a protester rushed the stage and covered Starmer in water and glitter. Funny but one of these days it will be a blade.