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clint van damme

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
Like we have Labour MPs now working to sabotage Starmer? Like we have Tory MPs trying to sabotage Sunak? Like Sunak tried to Sabotage Johnson and Truss? Like Brown sabotaged Blair and Blair sabotaged Brown?

Welcome to broad party politics.

Corbyn lost because of Corbyn. Come to terms with that instead of looking for a boogeyman.
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There is nobody in the Labour party working against Starmer as senior as some of those who worked against Corbyn.

But I agree, ultimately, Corbyn lost because of Corbyn .

But it still makes a mockery of the tory enabler bollocks spouted by centrists.
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
clint van damme said:
There is nobody in the Labour party working against Starmer as senior as some of those who worked against Corbyn.

But I agree, ultimately, Corbyn lost because of Corbyn .

But it still makes a mockery of the tory enabler bollocks spouted by centrists.
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Define senior? Diane Abbott was shadow home sec!
 
Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
duffer said:
There's nothing weird about challenging and highlighting the rapid movement of the Labour party from the centre left to the centre right under Starmer et al.

There are people who get outraged by any criticism of Starmer because they think it might hurt Labour's electoral prospects, but are willing to completely overlook Labour MPs (MPs mind you), working actively to sabotage Labour's chances in the last election. Now that's weird.

If the only reason left for voting Labour is that they're not quite the current iteration of the Tory party, then cool, fill your boots mate. I'd just like to see a party that actually stands for something.
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It's very noble to want the party to stand for something, and values you and I would consider Labour/left, but the reality is that if you make that choice at the ballot box then you're going to get something much worse.

Starmer is bland and scared of his own shadow, but in the last parliament we've had Boris, who is a manchild without scruples or any kind of attention span, Truss who wanted to be Maggie and hasn't updated her economcs from the 1980's, and Sunak who's so far removed from the reality for even moderately well-off people and just wants to give rich people more money and fuck the poor. Not to mention some of the cabinet posts, like Hancock and the frothing nutcases Patel and Braverman.

I want to see a more compassionate, daring left, but what I want even more is to not have another absolute shitfest in government.
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
clint van damme said:
True, but it still doesn't disprove my point.
Any centrist throwing around this tory enabling bollocks is talking shite, and a hypocrite!
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Do you think more people stopped liking Corbyn because of things he did or because of people talking about things he did?

Even in the full video of the clip FP posted she says she thinks shebdidnt need to do anything because the soft left left Corbyn themselves. Mostly because of antisemitism.
 
clint van damme

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
Do you think more people stopped liking Corbyn because of things he did or because of people talking about things he did?

Even in the full video of the clip FP posted she says she thinks shebdidnt need to do anything because the soft left left Corbyn themselves. Mostly because of antisemitism.
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I think you've missed my point, or maybe I didn't explain it very well,never mind.
 
dutchman

dutchman

Well-Known Member
www.telegraph.co.uk

Starmer heaps praise on Thatcher as he woos Conservative voters

Labour leader accuses Tories of ‘betrayal’ of their promises to control migration
www.telegraph.co.uk www.telegraph.co.uk

Sir Keir Starmer heaped praise on Margaret Thatcher for effecting “meaningful change” in Britain as he launched an explicit appeal to Conservative voters to switch to Labour.

In his most audacious bid yet to woo centre-Right support, reminiscent of the New Labour years, the Labour leader accused the Tories of a “betrayal” of their promises to control migration.

In a shift from his staunch opposition to Britain’s departure from the EU before becoming leader, Sir Keir added that the Conservatives have “failed to realise the possibilities of Brexit”.

Writing for The Telegraph, he praised Thatcher for “setting loose our natural entrepreneurialism” and warned that public was again fed up with politicians “hectoring”.
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duffer

duffer

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
Do you think more people stopped liking Corbyn because of things he did or because of people talking about things he did?

Even in the full video of the clip FP posted she says she thinks shebdidnt need to do anything because the soft left left Corbyn themselves. Mostly because of antisemitism.
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That's funny because I don't remember the left abandoning Corbyn because of anti-Semitism. That's a very convenient lie, by someone who brazenly admits to being a backstabbing, conniving piece of shit.

It was obvious that Corbyn had problems that the mainstream media were never going to let him get past. Some were of his own making, undoubtedly. A lot, however, were continuously stirred up by the right of the PLP and the very people who now decry anyone on the left pointing out Starmer's manifold failings as traitors or tory-enablers.

Starmer will undoubtedly get elected, but he's showing himself for what he is now, a one nation 'small c' conservative.

Scared of his own shadow, a weak man, either bereft of ideas or lacking the courage to espouse them, all he can do is pray for help from the right.

I don't know how many traditional Labour supporters he'll lose, not enough to bother him at the moment clearly. However, I'm fucked if I'm going to let my vote be used to justify more austerity, low regulation, high inequality, bullshit - and make no mistake, that's what you're about to get, just with slightly better presentation.
 
NorthernWisdom

NorthernWisdom

Well-Known Member
duffer said:
That's funny because I don't remember the left abandoning Corbyn because of anti-Semitism. That's a very convenient lie, by someone who brazenly admits to being a backstabbing, conniving piece of shit.

It was obvious that Corbyn had problems that the mainstream media were never going to let him get past. Some were of his own making, undoubtedly. A lot, however, were continuously stirred up by the right of the PLP and the very people who now decry anyone on the left pointing out Starmer's manifold failings as traitors or tory-enablers.

Starmer will undoubtedly get elected, but he's showing himself for what he is now, a one nation 'small c' conservative.

Scared of his own shadow, a weak man, either bereft of ideas or lacking the courage to espouse them, all he can do is pray for help from the right.

I don't know how many traditional Labour supporters he'll lose, not enough to bother him at the moment clearly. However, I'm fucked if I'm going to let my vote be used to justify more austerity, low regulation, high inequality, bullshit - and make no mistake, that's what you're about to get, just with slightly better presentation.
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You see, where I am is about where I was in '97, that what you mention sounds so appealing compared to what we have that I'll vote for it! Honestly, another term of this bunch of nutters and we're totally fucked as a country. Blair's second term, for my sins, I voted Lib Dem as they were to the left of Labour by that point economics wise, and Blair didn't take the chance to go more progressive in term two. Ironic that Kennedy left the Labour Party because they were too left, but ended up left of them in many ways, eh.

But I'll still say that it was undeniably better under Blair than another five years of Major-led disaster.
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
duffer said:
That's funny because I don't remember the left abandoning Corbyn because of anti-Semitism. That's a very convenient lie, by someone who brazenly admits to being a backstabbing, conniving piece of shit.

It was obvious that Corbyn had problems that the mainstream media were never going to let him get past. Some were of his own making, undoubtedly. A lot, however, were continuously stirred up by the right of the PLP and the very people who now decry anyone on the left pointing out Starmer's manifold failings as traitors or tory-enablers.

Starmer will undoubtedly get elected, but he's showing himself for what he is now, a one nation 'small c' conservative.

Scared of his own shadow, a weak man, either bereft of ideas or lacking the courage to espouse them, all he can do is pray for help from the right.

I don't know how many traditional Labour supporters he'll lose, not enough to bother him at the moment clearly. However, I'm fucked if I'm going to let my vote be used to justify more austerity, low regulation, high inequality, bullshit - and make no mistake, that's what you're about to get, just with slightly better presentation.
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Personally I think his Russia stance did it with the public. But the soft left left Corbyn because he was fucking awful at his job. The Left improving and ultimately winning elections starts with being realistic about its defeats. You sound like Nadine Dorries protecting Johnson (oh it’s the evil elites and not at all that my man couldn’t manage a piss up in a brewery).

Yes, when you get into power the people you beat into power want you to lose power. As I said: welcome to politics.
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
On the one hand, the actual quote isn’t half as bad as the headline. On the other, not sure claiming listening to focus groups and not having a clear vision is the sign of a poor leader is a smart move for Starmer. 🤣 (highlight not mine)

1701617658756.png
 
Ian1779

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
On the one hand, the actual quote isn’t half as bad as the headline. On the other, not sure claiming listening to focus groups and not having a clear vision is the sign of a poor leader is a smart move for Starmer. 🤣 (highlight not mine)

View attachment 32617
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I’m sure he secretly admires her for crushing trade unions and taking kids milk away… 😂
 
clint van damme

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
NorthernWisdom said:
You see, where I am is about where I was in '97, that what you mention sounds so appealing compared to what we have that I'll vote for it! Honestly, another term of this bunch of nutters and we're totally fucked as a country. Blair's second term, for my sins, I voted Lib Dem as they were to the left of Labour by that point economics wise, and Blair didn't take the chance to go more progressive in term two. Ironic that Kennedy left the Labour Party because they were too left, but ended up left of them in many ways, eh.

But I'll still say that it was undeniably better under Blair than another five years of Major-led disaster.
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The problem is this sends out the message that as an electorate we'll settle for anything that's even minimally better than absolute dogshit, and after 13 years of the cruellest austerity I dont believe we should.
 
Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
On the one hand, the actual quote isn’t half as bad as the headline. On the other, not sure claiming listening to focus groups and not having a clear vision is the sign of a poor leader is a smart move for Starmer. 🤣 (highlight not mine)

View attachment 32617
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I mean I've said in the past I've admired her leadership and tenacity, especially when dealing with Europe. But at the same time I think her ideology and policies were completely and utterly wrong and we're still suffering from them today.
 
duffer

duffer

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
Like we have Labour MPs now working to sabotage Starmer? Like we have Tory MPs trying to sabotage Sunak? Like Sunak tried to Sabotage Johnson and Truss? Like Brown sabotaged Blair and Blair sabotaged Brown?

Welcome to broad party politics.

Corbyn lost because of Corbyn. Come to terms with that instead of looking for a boogeyman.
Click to expand...


Name one time ever, when the sitting MPs of a party actively said, during an election campaign, vote for someone else?

Corbyn had his faults, as above, but to pretend that there weren't MPs out there working against their own party at the last election time is ignoring the obvious. Stop trying to paint those traitorous fuckers as something different.

Edit: And with apologies for biting your head off about it, but the sheer hypocrisy of those who say we should support Starmer unconditionally whilst being absolutely content with burning down Corbyn when he led the party, grates on me somewhat. You can probably tell. 😁
 
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W

wingy

Well-Known Member
Look,the myth that she started the council house sales is false,there was nothing preventing folk from doing just that since about the50's,may have been secret though,my father god rest him just managed to purchase ours for around £2k ,alas the morning after his death the bloody insurance turned up but he was no longer able to sign it.
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
wingy said:
Look,the myth that she started the council house sales is false,there was nothing preventing folk from doing just that since about the50's,may have been secret though,my father god rest him just managed to purchase ours for around £2k ,alas the morning after his death the bloody insurance turned up but he was no longer able to sign it.
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You needed agreement from the local authority from 1959. RTB changed that.
 
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