Do you want to discuss boring politics? (53 Viewers)

[Sky Blue Pete]

Most of the prosecutions and cover ups were under the Blair years

Do you have proof of that?

 

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[David O'Day]

Do you have proof of that?

Most of the major political cover ups started sometime after 2009 when Computer Weekly first reported that their were major bugs with the software.

There would of been issues under the blair years but the real Post Office attempts to cover up and pass blame happened from around 2010 onwards once the story started to get out. Most of the issues before that were the software suppliers lying about the unfixed issues with the software.

 

[wingy]

Can see them using August as an election bounce,think Brexit is becoming clear now.

 

[Grendel]

Do you have proof of that?

The prosecutions stated in 1999 - the system was under a labour government and the cover up scripts at call centres were led by Mandleson and co

 

[David O'Day]

The prosecutions stated in 1999 - the system was under a labour government and the cover up scripts at call centres were led by Mandleson and co

hahaha

 

[Grendel]

Private Eye campaigned from 1999 regarding this scandal

 

[Grendel]

hahaha

When was the first prosecution?

 

[David O'Day]

If anyone wants the none fantasy version of Peter Mandelson's involvement you just need to google the "mulgan note"

It relates to a review in 1998 before the system was in place and related to a later dropped benefit payment function that wasn't in the rolled out software.

Mandelson was by December 1998 no longer the minister responsible for Royal Mail and in 1999 when the system went live he was SoS for Northern Ireland

 

[Grendel]

If anyone wants the none fantasy version of Peter Mandelson's involvement you just need to google the "mulgan note"

It relates to a review in 1998 before the system was in place and related to a later dropped benefit payment function that wasn't in the rolled out software.

Mandelson was by December 1998 no longer the minister responsible for Royal Mail and in 1999 when the system went live he was SoS for Northern Ireland

I asked when was the first prosecution? Also did Harriet Harman not raise concerns in 1998 regarding documentation issues regarding the software? I think Private Eye exposed the scandal in 2000?

 

[Grendel]

When also was the peak of criminal prosecutions?

 

[David O'Day]

I asked when was the first prosecution? Also did Harriet Harman not raise concerns in 1998 regarding documentation issues regarding the software? I think Private Eye exposed the scandal in 2000?

i was talking about you claiming Mandelson was scripting call centre replies but Harriet Harman said in 1998 that it may fail to achieve it objectives regarding the same benefits payment functions that Mandelson spoke about and she did this in her capacity as SoS for DWP. Once again these functions were not in the rolled out verison

the first press report was in 2009 in Computer Weekly by Rebecca Thomson

‘Systemically, seriously wrong’: the 20-year quest to reveal Post Office IT scandal

People behind characters in the ITV drama describe their efforts to highlight Horizon software injustices

www.theguardian.com

 

[Grendel]

i was talking about you claiming Mandelson was scripting call centre replies but Harriet Harman said in 1998 that it may fail to achieve it objectives regarding the same benefits payment functions that Mandelson spoke about and she did this in her capacity as SoS for DWP. Once again these functions were not in the rolled out verison

the first press report was in 2009 in Computer Weekly by Rebecca Thomson

‘Systemically, seriously wrong’: the 20-year quest to reveal Post Office IT scandal

People behind characters in the ITV drama describe their efforts to highlight Horizon software injustices

www.theguardian.com

My initial question was when was the first prosecution - do you need me to hold your hand and say when it was?

 

[David O'Day]

When was the first prosecution?

it would of been in the blair years but what does that actually matter? at that point in time no one outside maybe a few people at a computing company new of any issues

this is why it took 5 years of digging for CW to get enough to actually be able to break a story on it

 

[Grendel]

it would of been in the blair years but what does that actually matter? at that point in time no one outside maybe a few people at a computing company new of any issues

this is why it took 5 years of digging for CW to get enough to actually be able to break a story on it

When did Private Eye first publish the concerns?

 

[David O'Day]

When did Private Eye first publish the concerns?

you tell me as it is widely reported and accepted that first story on the subject was in 2009

Google doesn't seem to bring up anything either so please show us all where Private Eye publish claims that the system was causing issues so widespread?

 

[David O'Day]

You are trying to make it party political

I on the other hand am more than happy to praise former Tory MP and now Peer Lord Arbuthnot for his work in proving the issues existed and the supplier and the post office were covering them up.

 

[Grendel]

you tell me as it is widely reported and accepted that first story on the subject was in 2009

Google doesn't seem to bring up anything either so please show us all where Private Eye publish claims that the system was causing issues so widespread?

I don’t know why your getting so defensive

https://www.private-eye.co.uk/pictures/special_reports/justice-lost-in-the-post.pdf

 

[JAM See]

Most of the prosecutions and cover ups were under the Blair years

Most of Manchester City's success was under a Tory government.

What's your point?

Going for non sequitur of the year?

 

[Grendel]

You are trying to make it party political

I on the other hand am more than happy to praise former Tory MP and now Peer Lord Arbuthnot for his work in proving the issues existed and the supplier and the post office were covering them up.

Im not at all

 

[David O'Day]

I don’t know why your getting so defensive

https://www.private-eye.co.uk/pictures/special_reports/justice-lost-in-the-post.pdf

who is being defensive? You just accused 2 people of being involved when they were not

also that private eye piece, it is a recentish article and for the life of me I can't see where it says they wrote about the widespread issue before CW did in 2009?

 

[skybluetony176]

The real scandal is that the last prosecution was in 2015 when the cat was well and truly out of the bag.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

When also was the peak of criminal prosecutions?

2009-10

 

[Grendel]

2009-10

Who was the head of the CPS then?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Who was the head of the CPS then?

Keir starmer

 

[David O'Day]

Who was the head of the CPS then?

there were 3 convictions dealt with by the CPS in Stamers time as DPP so 3 cases out of 4 million dealt with during his time

The vast majority of cases were private prosecutions brought without the use of the CPS

 

[skybluetony176]

Lee Anderson has resigned. Tough times

Apparently he wanted to protect his reputation.

 

[David O'Day]

Keir starmer

it's also meaningless who was DPP as the vast majority of cases in england and wales (all apart from 3) were private prosecutions so the CPS was not the prosecutor

Scotland and NI have their own versions of the CPS

 

[Grendel]

Keir starmer

The point surely is all 3 major parties have conspired to protect themselves in this grubby scandal and ultimately to protect the grubby political institution they all represent. No party is fit for purpose anymore - it’s a revolving door of uninspiring leaders who are only interested in playing a game to flatter their own egos. Politics is dead in this country - it’s a flat line of zombie politicians

 

[David O'Day]

The point surely is all 3 major parties have conspired to protect themselves in this grubby scandal and ultimately to protect the grubby political institution they all represent. No party is fit for purpose anymore - it’s a revolving door of uninspiring leaders who are only interested in playing a game to flatter their own egos. Politics is dead in this country - it’s a flat line of zombie politicians

Are you going to acknowledge that the CPS only dealt with 3 cases during Starmers time as DPP?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The point surely is all 3 major parties have conspired to protect themselves in this grubby scandal and ultimately to protect the grubby political institution they all represent. No party is fit for purpose anymore - it’s a revolving door of uninspiring leaders who are only interested in playing a game to flatter their own egos. Politics is dead in this country - it’s a flat line of zombie politicians

Well I agree with you, yet not long ago you seemed happy that we had this Americanised, popularity contest form of politics

 

[Grendel]

Are you going to acknowledge that the CPS only dealt with 3 cases during Starmers time as DPP?

I asked a question David. The fact is you back a man who makes U turn after U turn - who now will arm the Saudis, who will toady to the US - who stands for absolutely nothing or represent anybody

 

[David O'Day]

I asked a question David. The fact is you back a man who makes U turn after U turn - who now will arm the Saudis, who will toady to the US - who stands for absolutely nothing or represent anybody

Can you try not to answer with a nonsense word salad next time?

Why did you bring up Kier Starmer when it is the post office who acted as the prosecutor and not the CPS? It seems strange if you are as you say not trying to make a party political point.

 

[Grendel]

Well I agree with you, yet not long ago you seemed happy that we had this Americanised, popularity contest form of politics

I think I have voted for Tories 4 times. I think twice under thatcher and Johnson and I may have with Major - I can’t recall. To my eternal shame I voted Lib Dem once under Clegg.

Other than that I’ve voted green in most elections as they like animals

I probably regret not voting for Corbyn and McDonnell in 2017 as they would have I suppose offered an honest form of politics as Thatcher vs Kinnock did - Corbyn and his nonsense over brexit ruined him in 2019

I doubt I’ll be bothering to vote again

 

[PVA]

I asked a question David. The fact is you back a man who makes U turn after U turn - who now will arm the Saudis, who will toady to the US - who stands for absolutely nothing or represent anybody

You had no issue with arming Saudi Arabia when it suited your point at the time.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I think I have voted for Tories 4 times. I think twice under thatcher and Johnson and I may have with Major - I can’t recall. To my eternal shame I voted Lib Dem once under Clegg.

Other than that I’ve voted green in most elections as they like animals

I probably regret not voting for Corbyn and McDonnell in 2017 as they would have I suppose offered an honest form of politics as Thatcher vs Kinnock did - Corbyn and his nonsense over brexit ruined him in 2019

I doubt I’ll be bothering to vote again

Not at that level of apathy just yet, this current government need booting ASAP and then we’ll see what Starmer does. Though apparently the constituency boundary changes will cut into whatever majority he gets