Do you want to discuss boring politics? (89 Viewers)

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Philosoraptor

Philosoraptor

Well-Known Member
Anyone know the green candidates for Coventry?
 
Philosoraptor

Philosoraptor

Well-Known Member
I see Starmer's campaign is going for the post 1984 dystopian novel look with them knocking on about a 'change' sign but it awfully looks like to me that this is just a continuation of the jolly well same.
 
jimmyhillsfanclub

jimmyhillsfanclub

Well-Known Member
I was going to spoil my ballot, but it turns out I have an independent socialist standing in my ward....

.....from what I've heard from her so far, shes defo getting my vote!

Totally pointless of course, because you could pin a labour rosette on a condom full of dog-shit & they'd still get a 20K majority where I live.....
 
Sky Blue Pete

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
Reform have a huge role to play and Nigel Farage and his involvement and maybe even boris
I just hope as a country we can persuade a change of government to mean something tangible that we can get excited about
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Not for compulsory voting. Your right to vote should also be your right to not vote. I would encourage everyone to vote though even if it’s just to spoil your ballot paper.

I’ll be voting Labour this time simply because it’s the tactical vote to get the Tories out. Although if it doesn’t work I’m resigned to the fact that Rugby is destined to be Tory forever, if Labour can’t win Rugby in the current climate they’re never going to win it. Already come to that conclusion in the council elections, the Tory councillor still won in my seat so I’ll be voting green from now on in the council elections unless I move and if Labour don’t get in at the GE I might as well do the same at GE’s.
 
duffer

duffer

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
Hahaha. OK insert “some” at your leisure. But I only ever hear of two reasons for non voting “I can’t be arsed” and “I have special political principles that mean none of these parties are to my liking and no I don’t want to start a party and test my beliefs I just want to show how I’m better than those terrible people picking the least worst options because I’ve got PRINCIPLES!!”

And I’m saying from the outside everyone assumes you’re the former even if you’re the latter.
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Fair enough mate, I get that.

I think we probably differ in a couple of things.

I don't think people should be compelled to vote, because I see no harm caused to anyone else (or themselves) by an individual not voting. My failing to vote doesn't hurt democracy, my not being able to vote certainly does (voter ID, ahem).

(There's a third point here about whether my vote actually counts for anything in a 'safe' seat under our current FPTP system).

Secondly, I think it's perfectly acceptable for people to decline to vote because there's nothing on offer that they feel they can vote for. How many fall into that cohort neither you nor I can say.

The one thing I think we'd agree on, is that I'd like more people to take a real interest in politics.

That they don't is a failure in our society and our systems, rather than a problem with individuals, I'd argue. You may differ of course.
 
Philosoraptor

Philosoraptor

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
Not for compulsory voting. Your right to vote should also be your right to not vote. I would encourage everyone to vote though even if it’s just to spoil your ballot paper.
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I'd agree. The political parties use Turnout% to suggest that their policies have widespread appeal.

Having a low turnout puts forward that they are just full of shit and are fighting over the same small amout of voters.

It is the 'change' thing once again where everyone will be getting more of the same and people become even more powerless to deal change when it is needed.

How can you force people to vote for any of this croc-of-shit?
 
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shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
duffer said:
Fair enough mate, I get that.

I think we probably differ in a couple of things.

I don't think people should be compelled to vote, because I see no harm caused to anyone else (or themselves) by an individual not voting. My failing to vote doesn't hurt democracy, my not being able to vote certainly does (voter ID, ahem).

(There's a third point here about whether my vote actually counts for anything in a 'safe' seat under our current FPTP system).

Secondly, I think it's perfectly acceptable for people to decline to vote because there's nothing on offer that they feel they can vote for. How many fall into that cohort neither you nor I can say.

The one thing I think we'd agree on, is that I'd like more people to take a real interest in politics.

That they don't is a failure in our society and our systems, rather than a problem with individuals, I'd argue. You may differ of course.
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I’m ambivalent. I like the idea of making voting more of a “thing”, day off, free pint after, that sort of thing.

I generally don’t get too worried about turnout. For me the silent majority of non voters just can’t be bothered which means everything’s fine. All the studies show non voters would vote pretty much the same as voters if forced so I dont think there’s some huge democratic deficit from low turnout.

I just think those who don’t vote, spoil their ballot, vote for some weird tiny party as a protest, are missing the point of electoral politics. We have two parties in most constituencies and even with the third or fourth they’re expected to vote with one of the two. Just pick a side and stop moaning.
 
Philosoraptor

Philosoraptor

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
Just pick a side and stop moaning.
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That's like picking between Ebola and Covid-19.

You've got to choose one.

Actually you don't.

There's a whole range of political parties out there.

Find one that not going to take your vote for granted.
 
jimmyhillsfanclub

jimmyhillsfanclub

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
I just think those who don’t vote, spoil their ballot, vote for some weird tiny party as a protest, are missing the point of electoral politics. We have two parties in most constituencies and even with the third or fourth they’re expected to vote with one of the two. Just pick a side and stop moaning.
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I think people who believe this kind of shit are missing the point of democracy....
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
This really takes the biscuit.



The plan crumbled though.
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If this is the crap they're pulling on day one...goodness what are they going to be doing by the end?


Sunak is going to be an awful campaigner. He's too tetchy, has zero people skills and seems to turn into a malfunctioning robot around the working class or everyday tasks like making a contact less payment.
 
David O'Day

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
PVA said:
If this is the crap they're pulling on day one...goodness what are they going to be doing by the end?


Sunak is going to be an awful campaigner. He's too tetchy, has zero people skills and seems to turn into a malfunctioning robot around the working class or everyday tasks like making a contact less payment.
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He's in the Mrs. May levels of shiteness already.
 
duffer

duffer

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
I think you’d vote Labour if it was close and are relying on people like me voting sensibly to allow you a flounce…
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I think this is where you're going wrong. Calling it a "flounce" is both massively disrespectful and completely misses the point.

I'm struggling to vote for Labour because they've moved away from me on a number of key issues.

As I see it, voting for a party closer to what I believe in, is a better use of my vote, and a better reflection of my conscience.

If the Labour party is willing to move to the right on issues to capture Tory voters, maybe it will see that there are also a fair number of voters on environmental or international issues where a shift in policy might also be beneficial.

That's not a flounce mate, that's something that's being done with careful consideration.

Taking voters for granted because you think you're the only option for them, is something that Labour might want to learn from.
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
duffer said:
I think this is where you're going wrong. Calling it a "flounce" is both massively disrespectful and completely misses the point.

I'm struggling to vote for Labour because they've moved away from me on a number of key issues.

As I see it, voting for a party closer to what I believe in, is a better use of my vote, and a better reflection of my conscience.

If the Labour party is willing to move to the right on issues to capture Tory voters, maybe it will see that there are also a fair number of voters on environmental or international issues where a shift in policy might also be beneficial.

That's not a flounce mate, that's something that's being done with careful consideration.

Taking voters for granted because you think you're the only option for them, is something that Labour might want to learn from.
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I don’t buy it. If you’re left wing and the election is on a knife edge and you don’t use your vote for the left wing party, how are you left wing?

I’m not taking anyone for granted. I’m not the Labour Party, I’m a private citizen saying what I think the reality is and that I think it’s a lie that those supposedly on the left not planning on voting Labour would do the same if they thought their vote counted.

It’s a hypothetical, but if you genuinely feel you can’t vote for the most left wing govt in my lifetime because they aren’t left wing enough I honestly don’t know what to say. There’s two parties that can lead a government in this country, you’re either for the status quo, which is Conservative in this country, or you’re against it. Which is Labour.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
duffer

duffer

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
I don’t buy it. If you’re left wing and the election is on a knife edge and you don’t use your vote for the left wing party, how are you left wing?

I’m not taking anyone for granted. I’m not the Labour Party, I’m a private citizen saying what I think the reality is and that I think it’s a lie that those supposedly on the left not planning on voting Labour would do the same if they thought their vote counted.

It’s a hypothetical, but if you genuinely feel you can’t vote for the most left wing govt in my lifetime because they aren’t left wing enough I honestly don’t know what to say. There’s two parties that can lead a government in this country, you’re either for the status quo, which is Conservative in this country, or you’re against it. Which is Labour.
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Maybe you haven't lived long enough mate, because this the current Labour party is most definitely not left wing. Trust me, I am!

Also the election is not on a knife edge, particularly in this constituency.

So I'm certainly not for the status quo, but I'm also not much for a party that seems to be broadly committed to exactly the same economic policies as the one that's going.

I could just as well claim that by voting for Starmer's Labour, in broad brush terms you'll be extending the status quo but with a few minor improvements.

Anyway, as previous, I'm going to use my vote in line with my core beliefs. They haven't much shifted, but I'm the Labour party under Starmer has.

My point remains - Starmer is happy to shift the party to the right to chase Tory votes. Maybe if he sees enough votes on the left drifting away he'll realise that he's got to come to some accommodation with that side too. It might even inform some of his policy decisions when in government, who knows.
 
fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
I don’t buy it. If you’re left wing and the election is on a knife edge and you don’t use your vote for the left wing party, how are you left wing?

I’m not taking anyone for granted. I’m not the Labour Party, I’m a private citizen saying what I think the reality is and that I think it’s a lie that those supposedly on the left not planning on voting Labour would do the same if they thought their vote counted.

It’s a hypothetical, but if you genuinely feel you can’t vote for the most left wing govt in my lifetime because they aren’t left wing enough I honestly don’t know what to say. There’s two parties that can lead a government in this country, you’re either for the status quo, which is Conservative in this country, or you’re against it. Which is Labour.
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Why do you believe this is the most left wing govt in your lifetime?
 
David O'Day

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
duffer said:
Maybe you haven't lived long enough mate, because this the current Labour party is most definitely not left wing. Trust me, I am!

Also the election is not on a knife edge, particularly in this constituency.

So I'm certainly not for the status quo, but I'm also not much for a party that seems to be broadly committed to exactly the same economic policies as the one that's going.

I could just as well claim that by voting for Starmer's Labour, in broad brush terms you'll be extending the status quo but with a few minor improvements.

Anyway, as previous, I'm going to use my vote in line with my core beliefs. They haven't much shifted, but I'm the Labour party under Starmer has.

My point remains - Starmer is happy to shift the party to the right to chase Tory votes. Maybe if he sees enough votes on the left drifting away he'll realise that he's got to come to some accommodation with that side too. It might even inform some of his policy decisions when in government, who knows.
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Why would you not try and get more people who didn't vote for you last time to vote for you this time?

If getting people who have voted tory to vote for you is bad then how the actual fuck could the labour party win an election without doing that?

Centre Left Labour Parties win, ones seen as being stuck on the left don't and if you don't win then what is the point?
 
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