Do you want to discuss boring politics? (18 Viewers)

[RegTheDonk]

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1997-2010

 

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[Sky Blue Pete]

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I’d say 1997 - 2001 and some of the following one but Iraq and then removing the 10% initial tax rate and then calling the woman racist were the end of the competency

 

[PVA]

No I’m the IFS - they said both main parties are being dishonest in their manifesto

Fine but I was referencing the £38b figure which the Tories made up, has since been debunked, yet you keep running with.

 

[skybluetony176]

I mean it’s a tongue in cheek comment, but really it’s more that Starmer has changed his opinion on lots of things in the last 4 years. I think there is a piece of video out there saying he supported the actions of activists like Just Stop Oil or Extinction Rebellion before he was leader of the Labour Party.
It’s almost as if the sniff of power has created somewhat of an inverted Damascus moment

There is the flip side to that. He’s getting in by promising very little. If he changes his mind chances are it will be positive given how negative the manifesto is.

 

[Sick Boy]

There is the flip side to that. He’s getting in by promising very little. If he changes his mind chances are it will be positive given how negative the manifesto is.

Interesting, so what's the point of a manifesto?

 

[skybluetony176]

Also like the Labour manifesto and the £38 billion black hole.

All parties other than the main two can say what they want - are the Greens grifters?

In the interest of balance the Tories have a £71B black hole in theirs. God knows how big Reforms is as they’re promising the second biggest spend after the Greens but unlike the Greens who are proposing big tax reforms to pay for it whereas Reform is promising tax cuts.

Fact is Labour’s manifesto is the most deliverable on paper at least regardless of a £38B black hole. On that basis alone given the choices they’re the most credible.

 

[skybluetony176]

Interesting, so what's the point of a manifesto?

It’s a fair point but I refer you to every government in my living memory. This isn’t a disease of the Labour Party.

 

[torchomatic]

Looking at most platforms online, those who slag Starmer off the most tend to be to the left. They attack him more than the Tories do. Not the most exciting of politicians, but I don't want exciting. I don't want a narcassist like Johnson or a near billionaire like Sunak, I want someone sensible, yes, someone boring. Someone who'll govern without thinking of their own mates and their own pockets.

I think someone like Starmer is just what this country needs after 14 years of fuckwittery from the Tories.

 

[chiefdave]

May runs the worst campaign in decades and it’s Corbyn cutting her lead, Sunak does the same and it’s the Tories throwing it away and nothing to do with Starmer.

It’s such a ridiculous meme. Starmers approval now is higher than Corbyns ever was, higher than May and around on par with Johnson in 2019. By any measure he’s a relatively popular politician and on course to win a landslide.

The fact this is true while everyone on social media claims the opposite should give you pause for thought.

Whatever you think of Corbyns politics you've got to be blind to not see he was able to engage people in a way Starmer simply isn't doing

 

[PVA]

Looking at most platforms online, those who slag Starmer off the most tend to be to the left. They attack him more than the Tories do. Not the most exciting of politicians, but I don't want exciting. I don't want a narcassist like Johnson or a near billionaire like Sunak, I want someone sensible, yes, someone boring. Someone who'll govern without thinking of their own mates and their own pockets.

I think someone like Starmer is just what this country needs after 14 years of fuckwittery from the Tories.

Fully agree.

 

[chiefdave]

Looking at most platforms online, those who slag Starmer off the most tend to be to the left.

Obv this is only one person but my Mum is the stereotypical Mail reading, Thatcher loving life long tory voter

She was fully intending to vote for 'that Sultana woman', who she bizarrely thinks is brilliant presumably because she is visible in the local community where previous MPs of either party haven't been, as the tories have 'ruined the country'

However she's now decided that for the first time in her life she may not vote at all as 'he's no different to Sunak' and 'a wet blanket'

 

[torchomatic]

Whatever you think of Corbyns politics you've got to be blind to not see he was able to engage people in a way Starmer simply isn't doing

Yet, he couldn't engage enough people to vote for him in 2017 or 2019. It's a shame those around him didn't explain that well attended rallys and people singing his name at Glastonbury makes little difference at the end of the day. To change lives for the better Labour need to be in Government and there was no way he was ever going to win. He condemned us to Johnson and the Tories in 2019.

 

[Philosoraptor]

Still one of the most iconic things ever shown on TV.

I am amazed anyone can think that emulating this would be the way forward.

 

[wingy]

I’d say 1997 - 2001 and some of the following one but Iraq and then removing the 10% initial tax rate and then calling the woman racist were the end of the competency

A bigot what I remember?

 

[Nick]

No one who is an "average working man" can afford to send their kid to private school.

They can if they make massive sacrifices.

 

[PVA]

They can if they make massive sacrifices.

An average of £15k a year for one kid, that's a hell of a lot of sacrificing for the 'average working man'!

I suppose it entirely depends on the definition of average working man, but the average UK salary is £30k pa.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Does anyone think if Corbyn was still leader of Labour they would have this 20 point + lead in the polls?

No, but he'd have had a decent chance of winning the election overall given the shitshow of the Tories.

Put it another way, do you think Starmer would be winning if he was facing Boris in 2019?

 

[torchomatic]

They can if they make massive sacrifices.

Nah, if you can afford private education for your kid(s) then you're not on an "average" salary.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Exactly, high tax economies generate poor growth. The economy also wasn’t addicted to quantitive easing back in the 90s and early 00s.

A low tax economies generate huge inequality and poverty.

 

[Nick]

Nah, if you can afford private education for your kid(s) then you're not on an "average" salary.

There are plenty who sacrifice who are "average" people who graft, it isn't just people born into money.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

They can if they make massive sacrifices.

Who to? Beezelbub? Adam Smith? Ayn Rand?

 

[torchomatic]

There are plenty who sacrifice who are "average" people who graft, it isn't just people born into money.

Average person maybe, but not average salary.

Average cost is now £6944 for day pupils and £12344 for borders. Per term.

 

[Nick]

An average of £15k a year for one kid, that's a hell of a lot of sacrificing for the 'average working man'!

People do. That's the thing.

It's not all brand new range rovers and mansions!

 

[Nick]

Average person maybe, but not average salary.

It depends, you will find a lot will be both parents working but far from rich or well off but doing their best to send their kid.

Some people get massive mortgages to get into areas for schools, it's not that much different.

 

[torchomatic]

It depends, you will find a lot will be both parents working but far from rich or well off but doing their best to send their kid.

Edited my post: Average cost is now £6944 for day pupils and £12344 for borders. Per term.

If you're saying that the average person/family can afford that then my family is WAY below average in what we earn.

 

[Nick]

Edited my post: Average cost is now £6944 for day pupils and £12344 for borders. Per term.

Yeah, and it's do-able with both parents grafting for it living a very modest life otherwise.

 

[Nick]

If you're saying that the average person/family can afford that then my family is WAY below average in what we earn.

Like I said, people make huge sacrifices with outgoings to do it.

Obviously, it depends on individual circumstances.

 

[torchomatic]

Yeah, and it's do-able with both parents grafting for it living a very modest life otherwise.

Might be doable for you, but I certainly couldn't afford £21K or £36K a year out of our family budget. I doubt many "average" families could. Great, if you can afford it as we all want the best possible start in life for our kids, but to say that's attainable for the average family, even if they are making sacrifices, is laughable. Seems our view on average is different.

 

[duffer]

That and being a fan of FPTP are two of my most consistent beliefs even as far back as my A-levels.

Ah, so you're not big on democracy then. I'd say if you're old enough to die for your country, or work and pay tax to it, you're old enough to vote.

As for FPTP, I'd like to live in a country where every vote counts.

Just because your opinion is rigid, doesn't mean it's correct, of course. Similarly, being over-18, or even much, much, older, does not necessarily make one wise.

 

[Nick]

Might be doable for you, but I certainly couldn't afford £21K or £36K a year out of our family budget. I doubt many "average" families could. Great, if you can afford it as we all want the best possible start in life for our kids, but to say that's attainable for the average family, even if they are making sacrifices, is laughable. Seems our view on average is different.

Yeah it's pretty much one of the wages gone for a single kid.

It also depends on how "average" is defined, how much is their mortgage, do they have car payments etc?

 

[PVA]

Average salary is 30k = 2k per month take home.

Average private school cost is apparently 21k = 1750 per month.

Off two average salaries that would take some doing for one kid and impossible for two. If anyone is doing that then fair fucks that really is making some huge sacrifices for your kids!

 

[torchomatic]

Average salary is 30k = 2k per month take home.

Average private school cost is apparently 21k = 1750 per month.

Off two average salaries that would take some doing for one kid and impossible for two. If anyone is doing that then fair fucks that really is making some huge sacrifices for your kids!

Which is why I'm disputing "average" family here. Very comfortable, family with no mortgage, family who eat very little, but "average"? No way.

 

[skybluetony176]

Whatever you think of Corbyns politics you've got to be blind to not see he was able to engage people in a way Starmer simply isn't doing

In 2017 maybe. By 2019 he’d lost the room.

 

[Nick]

Average salary is 30k = 2k per month take home.

Average private school cost is apparently 21k = 1750 per month.

Off two average salaries that would take some doing for one kid and impossible for two. If anyone is doing that then fair fucks that really is making some huge sacrifices for your kids!

Just looked, King Henrys for example is £15,900 per year. (without bursaries)

For one kid, it's do able for an example household income of £60k.

Obviously when you start talking about Eton and things like that it's silly money.

 

[MalcSB]

1997-2010

Is that really relevant today. Different situation, totally different individuals.

Even then, we had dodgy dossiers, raid on private pension, selling off gold reserves.

Wales is a measure of current Labour incompetence.