Do you want to discuss boring politics? (43 Viewers)
- Thread starter mrtrench
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D
Deleted member 5849
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The more a narrative of a landslide is pushed, the less likely it is to happen.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
I always find these polls interesting - the Labour victory is not in question, I also think SNP will not drop that low.
No I think he will win fairly comfortably really.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
I dunno, SNP have lost a charismatic leader and are mired in chaos themselves. You'd think all three national parties would be eyeing Scotland up as an opportunity.
MalcSB
Well-Known Member
You said if you are old enough to die for your country, you are old enough to vote. Under 18s need parental permission to sign up to the armed forces. If they can’t be trusted to make that decision, why entrust them with a vote. They can’t be sent to the front line below 18, so your argument is wrong. We don’t trust them at 16 in relation to the armed forces. Wrong again.
Under 18s have to remain in training e.g, apprenticeships. Most if not all at the apprentice Rate will barely exceed the tax threshold maybe paying £1 a month. Only about 25% of 16 year olds are in such schemes. Your qualifification seems to be payment of income tax. Presumably the 75% still in full time education shouldn't get the vote then. What about the unemployed by your logic.
The rational part of a teenagers brain isn't fully developed - yet another reason why 16 year olds should not be entitled to vote.
Duffer by name, Duffer by nature.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
I'm sure somebody posted up a video of an elderly woman in Mansfield or somewhere demonstrating that rational thought had long since departed.
MalcSB
Well-Known Member
Probably wouldn’t be capable of voting in that case.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Tory donor John Caudwell tells the BBC he is voting Labour
Phones4U founder John Caudwell gave the Conservatives £500K before the last general election.
www.bbc.com
"We can't tax rich people in order to help the poor because they'll go off to Monaco and other places, we have to create real genuine wealth.”
"the loony Left"
You just love to see it.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
To be fair Starmer has been pretty clear that tough decisions will continue to be made in relation to the poor so that people like Mr Caldwell can continue to amass wealthTory donor John Caudwell tells the BBC he is voting Labour
Phones4U founder John Caudwell gave the Conservatives £500K before the last general election.
"We can't tax rich people in order to help the poor because they'll go off to Monaco and other places, we have to create real genuine wealth.”
"the loony Left"
You just love to see it.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
I reckon about 90% of this thread haven't been outside since 2008.
Honestly, absolutely staggering to read some of this shit. Not reflective of the real whatsoever.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Yes, staggering.
The 2007–2008 financial crisis, or the global financial crisis (GFC), was the most severe worldwide economic crisis since the Great Depression. Predatory lending in the form of subprime mortgages targeting low-income homebuyers,[1] excessive risk-taking by global financial institutions,[2] a continuous buildup of toxic assets within banks, and the bursting of the United States housing bubble culminated in a "perfect storm", which led to the Great Recession.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
My Dad has no clue where he is or what's going on. On the occasions he does recognise me he thinks I'm his brother, he's never had a bother. He's had his polling card and will be sent his postal vote form.
If you go down the route of assessing people's mental capacity to make the 'right' decision in a considered way you're opening a whole can of worms.
MalcSB
Well-Known Member
Will he vote, or will you do it for him?
No 16 year olds have fully developed the rational part of the brain. A minority of adults have lost that ability so not really a valid comparison,
Votes for 16 year olds is absolutely fucking ridiculous and to introduce it would be gerrymandering. There is no logical reason a school kid should be able to vote - other than gerrymandering. You and your comrades know it and are wriggling like the canned worms you mention to justify it using inaccurate statements.
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David O'Day
Well-Known Member
the main cause of the financial crisis was the us repeal of the glass-steagal laws that allowed us banks to mix sub prime directives and sell them to banks around the world
someone needs to take your laptop off you
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
It’s plausible, the SNPs record in government (since 2007) is terrible! With no prospect of a 2nd referendum any time soon and a chance to kick the tories out, Labour will regain a lot of the central belt in Scotland.
David O'Day
Well-Known Member
The SNP have a lot of the same issues the Tories have in Westminster
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Likewise with Welsh Labour too. Which is my logic when I say anyone expecting big changes from an incoming Labour government will be disappointed by the next election.
Totally agree that the Tories absolutely deserve to kicked out of government, the alternative just isn’t going to be much better in my view.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
My preference for FPTP is more technical.
Bearing in mind the rarity that a party will reach 51% of the popular vote, coalition governments become the norm. Which, imo, isn’t what the electorate votes for (in most cases). Let’s use this election to make a hypothetical example:
Labour is currently polling at 45-46% so would need either the Lib Dems or Greens to form a coalition. Why should a junior party have the power to force through policies the electorate didn’t give a mandate for?
Continuing with the this election as an example, I believe the party with the most votes should form the government. Labour polling on 45%, hypothetically could be thwarted by a coalition of the other parties. This happened in Spain this year where a centre-right party ‘won’ the election but the centre-left party formed the government. In the Netherlands, Geert Wilders ‘won’ the election but will not be the next PM.
PR systems tend to be more fragmented to parties rarely poll above 40% so tend to need ‘rainbow coalitions’ (multiple parties) and governments can be brought down by these junior parties.
Take Brexit for example, at 52:48, if we had a PR electoral system, we wouldn’t have had a decisive conclusion to that issue. FPTP delivered a government with a large majority to push through their agenda, likewise with this upcoming election where Labour. The term ‘elective dictatorship’ is apt and actually, a perk of our system.
As for 16-17 year old votes, there’s a reason most countries only enfranchise them for local/municipal elections rather than national elections.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
I won't do it for him because I don't think he should be voting when he has no fucking clue what day of the week it is. There's a pretty decent chance one of the carers or my mum will 'help' him fill it in and post it back.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
I also disagree with postal voting, 20% of votes being cast in this way doesn’t quite sit right with me. There’s also a reason it’s not allowed in Northern Ireland too.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
I postal vote. Only way I can be certain I'll get to use my vote as I can be sent away for work at very short notice and wouldn't be able to make it back.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Where are you getting postal voting is not allowed in Northern Ireland from?
duffer
Well-Known Member
Grow up mate, seriously, that's a really weak insult - do you think I've not heard it before? You're not very good at the cheap shots, so I'd give it a rest, it's just a bit... awkward. And at least I tried for a bit of fun and self-deprecation with my username, yours seems to reflect a certain lack of imagination... probably down to that rigidity of thought that you admit that you suffer from.
Regardless, when you sign up for the Army at sixteen, are you committing yourself to a role in the armed forces that may involve frontline service? (I'll help here, the answer is yes.) You seem to have forgotten that part of your argument, conveniently.
So let's move on to rationality. Actually, current science suggests that the brain doesn't fully mature until about age 25, so by your argument, we shouldn't allow people to vote until they're at least that old. No?
In fact, the whole 'too irrational to vote", holds no water at all unless you're proposing some kind of independent "rationality' test all citizens would have to pass in order to vote. Are you arguing for that?
I'm simply saying that 16-18 year olds should get the vote. I'm not dancing on the head of a pin about how much tax they pay, or even if they're in full time education or out of work. I'm just pointing out that they're clearly mature enough to work, and are expected to do so, and/or to continue to learn, and to contribute to society via taxation or otherwise. Not quite the same as school kids.
On that basis, there's no 'rational' reason to deny 16-18 year olds the vote, other than your obvious fear that they might vote for a party you don't like. Which is what you're really saying here, isn't it? Come on now, fess up old chap, you can't bluff a duffer.
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duffer
Well-Known Member
It doesn't quite 'sit right' with you? Is that entirely rational, it's just it sounds a lot like an emotional hot-take based on an incomplete understanding.
Are you 16-18 by any chance?
How do I get a postal vote in Northern Ireland?
The Electoral Office of Northern Ireland (EONI) must receive applications for absent voting by 17:00 BST on Friday.
www.bbc.co.uk
MalcSB
Well-Known Member
Grow up mate, seriously, that's a really weak insult - do you think I've not heard it before? You're not very good at the cheap shots, so I'd give it a rest, it's just a bit... awkward. And at least I tried for a bit of fun and self-deprecation with my username, yours seems to reflect a certain lack of imagination... probably down to that rigidity of thought that you admit that you suffer from.
Regardless, when you sign up for the Army at sixteen, are you committing yourself to a role in the armed forces that may involve frontline service? (I'll help here, the answer is yes.) You seem to have forgotten that part of your argument, conveniently.
So let's move on to rationality. Actually, current science suggests that the brain doesn't fully mature until about age 25, so by your argument, we shouldn't allow people to vote until they're at least that old. No?
In fact, the whole 'too irrational to vote", holds no water at all unless you're proposing some kind of independent "rationality' test all citizens would have to pass in order to vote. Are you arguing for that?
I'm simply saying that 16-18 year olds should get the vote. I'm not dancing on the head of a pin about how much tax they pay, or even if they're in full time education or out of work. I'm just pointing out that they're clearly mature enough to work, and are expected to do so, and/or to continue to learn, and to contribute to society via taxation or otherwise. Not quite the same as school kids.
On that basis, there's no 'rational' reason to deny 16-18 year olds the vote, other than your obvious fear that they might vote for a party you don't like. Which is what you're really saying here, isn't it? Come on now, fess up old chap, you can't bluff a duffer.
On your revised argument, should 16 year olds be able to marry without parental permission, drive a car or a lorry, be regarded as an adult if arrested for a crime. Should child benefit and child maintenance stop at 16 as they are not children?
If it“s a question of maturity, then go the whole hog. It isn’t, it’s gerrymandering. If the majority of 16 year olds belonged to a right wing organisation - let’s say a Farage Youth - Labour would not be including this in their manifesto.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
Yet you were OK with the tories gerrymandering by bringing in voter ID.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Exactly! Just what I've been banging on about.
MalcSB
Well-Known Member
Where have I said that?
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
It doesn't quite 'sit right' with you? Is that entirely rational, it's just it sounds a lot like an emotional hot-take based on an incomplete understanding.
Are you 16-18 by any chance?
How do I get a postal vote in Northern Ireland?
The Electoral Office of Northern Ireland (EONI) must receive applications for absent voting by 17:00 BST on Friday.www.bbc.co.uk
I wish I was 16-18 again!
Sorry, I missed out the small detail of ‘on demand’ absentee voting i.e. in Northern Ireland it’s restricted and a reason given for a proxy/postal vote.
No, there’s been some reports that indicate the system could be prone to tampering and what not. It was introduced in 2001 so a very new concept.
MalcSB
Well-Known Member
Wasn’t it the independent electoral commission who was asking for voter ID for years?
Do you believe everything that Rees-Mogg says? Especially without considering the context in which he said it?
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Think his dog ate that page out of the A-level Politics revision guideIt doesn't quite 'sit right' with you? Is that entirely rational, it's just it sounds a lot like an emotional hot-take based on an incomplete understanding.
Are you 16-18 by any chance?
How do I get a postal vote in Northern Ireland?
The Electoral Office of Northern Ireland (EONI) must receive applications for absent voting by 17:00 BST on Friday.www.bbc.co.uk
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
Earlier in the thread. You said you were OK with voter ID.
Yet its a clear attempt at gerrymandering by the tories, (I posted a link to Rees Mogg admitting it)
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
For someone who mentions logical thinking and honesty so often in his posts you're not displaying much of either regarding this issue.