Do you want to discuss boring politics? (37 Viewers)

[skybluetony176]

It will be interesting to see how sales go as the deadline is approached.

The irony is that there will probably be a lot of relatively cheap Chinese EVs bought, all produced in the top CO2 producing country in the world at 30 times UK.

Doesn’t matter where the vehicle is made, chances are the battery was made in China. There’s a reason it’s the top producing CO2 country and that’s because it’s the world’s factory, everything from lithium cells to semiconductors, we count that as china’s emissions not a production line in the west using those batteries and semiconductors etc in a final product. The west is essentially exporting its carbon footprint to China by importing components into the west. And the carbon footprint of lithium is eye watering. Gets mined in remote difficult to reach locations such as the high Andes or the middle of deserts, decimating eco systems that are billions of years old, it’s then processed locally typically by chemical extraction poisoning water courses decimating more eco systems, it’s then shipped half way around the world to China where it’s further processed and manufactured into cells/batteries before being shipped halfway around the world again to be put into electric cars etc in western factories. Anyone who thinks that they’re saving the planet by driving a battery powered EV is delusional. It’s good at cutting emissions at point of use but it’s carbon footprint is insane. And we haven’t even talked about end of life, it’s as difficult to recycle as it is process in the first place. Tons of it is going straight to landfill where it’s poisoning water courses etc. etc.

I’ll keep my petrol vehicles until hydrogen is more readily available thanks. That and use public transport.

 

---

[MalcSB]

Tbf its never going to be great unless you exercise the right.

That's the whole point.

I was looking at it as not being great from the point of view of affordable rental housing stock being taken out of the market. Not from the point of view of making a huge capital gain like some people did.

 

[shmmeee]

Doesn’t matter where the vehicle is made, chances are the battery was made in China. There’s a reason it’s the top producing CO2 country and that’s because it’s the world’s factory, everything from lithium cells to semiconductors, we count that as china’s emissions not a production line in the west using those batteries and semiconductors etc in a final product. The west is essentially exporting its carbon footprint to China by importing components into the west. And the carbon footprint of lithium is eye watering. Gets mined in remote difficult to reach locations such as the high Andes or the middle of deserts, decimating eco systems that are billions of years old, it’s then processed locally typically by chemical extraction poisoning water courses decimating more eco systems, it’s then shipped half way around the world to China where it’s further processed and manufactured into cells/batteries before being shipped halfway around the world again to be put into electric cars etc in western factories. Anyone who thinks that they’re saving the planet by driving a battery powered EV is delusional. It’s good at cutting emissions at point of use but it’s carbon footprint is insane. And we haven’t even talked about end of life, it’s as difficult to recycle as it is process in the first place. Tons of it is going straight to landfill where it’s poisoning water courses etc. etc.

I’ll keep my petrol vehicles until hydrogen is more readily available thanks. That and use public transport.

Half of this is just wrong and outdated.
It sounds like a Telegraph opinion piece from 2004.

Do electric cars really produce fewer carbon emissions than petrol or diesel vehicles? | Business | The Guardian

In part five of our series exploring myths surrounding EVs, we assess the greenwashing claims

amp.theguardian.com

And the US and Australia have huge lithium reserves. The idea it comes from killing poor people in the Andes only is a nonsense.

 

[shmmeee]

It will be interesting to see how sales go as the deadline is approached.

The irony is that there will probably be a lot of relatively cheap Chinese EVs bought, all produced in the top CO2 producing country in the world at 30 times UK.

China is nothing like 30 times as polluting.

Do any of you guys check your facts? This stuff is easily googleable. UK emissions per capita is 5.6 tons, China 7.8.

 

[wingy]

China is nothing like 30 times as polluting.

Do any of you guys check your facts? This stuff is easily googleable. UK emissions per capita is 5.6 tons, China 7.8.

Wonder how much hot air is produced through e technology, maybe there's other sources than Google
Don't forget to add shipping in as well!

 

[shmmeee]

Wonder how much hot air is produced through e technology, maybe there's other sources than Google
Don't forget to add shipping in as well!

The supply chain isn’t hugely different though a bit less mature. These are all silly complaints trying to justify not changing. Like we don’t ship ICE cars around the world or use parts from different places. The EU and US moving away from China is something that’s happening regardless.

You want to drive a less efficient, more polluting, noisier, more expensive car in twenty years crack on. Just don’t be surprised when everyone looks at you weird and you’re paying through the nose for the privilege.

 

[MalcSB]

China is nothing like 30 times as polluting.

Do any of you guys check your facts? This stuff is easily googleable. UK emissions per capita is 5.6 tons, China 7.8.

I did check my facts, I was quoting total emissions not per capita. Given China’s population is 21 times that of the UK and their per capita emissions are 1.4 times that of the UK, China produces about 30 times as much CO2 as the Uk. Their emissions are increasing to an extent which would outweigh UK reduction to net zero.

 

[MalcSB]

Wonder how much hot air is produced through e technology, maybe there's other sources than Google
Don't forget to add shipping in as well!

I have also wondered what the carbon footprint of all this e tech is. I wonder if you can Google it.

 

[Grendel]

I did check my facts, I was quoting total emissions not per capita. Given China’s population is 21 times that of the UK and their per capita emissions are 1.4 times that of the UK, China produces about 30 times as much CO2 as the Uk. Their emissions are increasing to an extent which would outweigh UK reduction to net zero.

He’s having a nightmare

 

[Grendel]

Wonder how much hot air is produced through e technology, maybe there's other sources than Google
Don't forget to add shipping in as well!

Shmmee is producing enough hot air to make net zero a total impossibility

 

[skybluetony176]

Half of this is just wrong and outdated.
It sounds like a Telegraph opinion piece from 2004.

Do electric cars really produce fewer carbon emissions than petrol or diesel vehicles? | Business | The Guardian

In part five of our series exploring myths surrounding EVs, we assess the greenwashing claims

amp.theguardian.com

And the US and Australia have huge lithium reserves. The idea it comes from killing poor people in the Andes only is a nonsense.

I never even remotely suggested that it’s killing poor people in the Andes, you’re adding your own context.

I’m talking about eco systems, eco systems that took thousands and thousands of years to evolve. A good example is the Bonneville Salt Flats in America, Mecca of land speed records. They been pumping the brine out for lithium mining and replacing it with fresh water. The whole ecosystem is collapsing, literally. The crust has become so weak there’s now a weight limit on vehicles that compete there and they recon that within a couple of decades only bikes will be able to compete and only for a short period of time before the crust completely collapses. These ecosystems are unique, take a long time create.

A lot of these reports can also be selective about what they class as battery manufacturing too. They often leave out raw material mining for example, every ton of lithium produced produces 15 tons of CO2 is a good example, they often ignore the vast distances travelled by the raw materials from mining to processing to manufacturing as individual cells to manufacturing cells into batteries.

 

[chiefdave]

Do any of you guys check your facts?

Will be disappointed if Grendel isn't firing up the spreadsheet and preparing to quote about 50 shmmeee posts

 

[fatso]

I was looking at it as not being great from the point of view of affordable rental housing stock being taken out of the market. Not from the point of view of making a huge capital gain like some people did.

But as housing stock was depleted, so demand for that stock was depleted by the same amount, as the people buying were former tenants who were able to leave the rental sector.

The fact that some made profit is of little relevance as they would of remained home owners (higher up the housing ladder) rather than staying tenants.

I'll caveat the above by saying excess profits should perhaps of been taxed on a sliding scale over a number of years.

The fact that demand still outstrips supply is largely due to an ever growing population, and immigration out numbering the number of houses that are being built.

Also I'm.aware of a number of single parent Ukraine families waiting for housing near me, where the fathers are not present for obvious reasons and the mothers can't work full time due to child care issues.
Although they are obviously genuinely in need, their circumstances could not of been foreseen, but the increase in demand is causing major issues nevertheless.

 

[Philosoraptor]

Kick Off at 20:15

Pre-team talk has been very boring.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

No - he said it’s the worst of both worlds - for a buyer like me it’s the best.

For a consumer yes, for the environment it’s dreadful.

 

[wingy]

For a consumer yes, for the environment it’s dreadful.

Them X5's are a bit of a bugger when they're street parked,to keep away from, suspect they be alright on the drive, probably wouldn't fit in the modern garage!

 

[robbiekeane]

This question time or whatever it is is embarrassing. We’ve become like the US, where every opportunity is just taken to slag off the other candidate. Pathetic weasels both of them just shouting over each other.

 

[robbiekeane]

They are also showing zero respect for the facilitator - the fact they thing talking over her makes them look better or scores them point beggars belief

 

[torchomatic]

Definitely didn't pressure him at all.

No. I didn't. He's honest and decent.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

This question time or whatever it is is embarrassing. We’ve become like the US, where every opportunity is just taken to slag off the other candidate. Pathetic weasels both of them just shouting over each other.

Agreed, it’s a total embarrassment. Weak moderation as well by someone who may as well not be there.

Both also insist on going off script and not answering the question that’s asked

 

[robbiekeane]

Agreed, it’s a total embarrassment. Weak moderation as well by someone who may as well not be there.

They just need to mute their mics - they brought in in the US.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

They just need to mute their mics - they brought in in the US.

Would be better if the host could give them a mild electric shock

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

He only won by 700 votes last time. My lad is voting for the first time. It'll be for Matt.

Matt is a twat who doesn’t think he should support any local striking workers or respond to his constituents. He can get stuffed.

 

[MalcSB]

But as housing stock was depleted, so demand for that stock was depleted by the same amount, as the people buying were former tenants who were able to leave the rental sector.

The fact that some made profit is of little relevance as they would of remained home owners (higher up the housing ladder) rather than staying tenants.

I'll caveat the above by saying excess profits should perhaps of been taxed on a sliding scale over a number of years.

The fact that demand still outstrips supply is largely due to an ever growing population, and immigration out numbering the number of houses that are being built.
Also I'm.aware of a number of single parent Ukraine families waiting for housing near me, where the fathers are not present for obvious reasons and the mothers can't work full time due to child care issues.
Although they are obviously genuinely in need, their circumstances could not of been foreseen, but the increase in demand is causing major issues nevertheless.

I’m not sure that demand for council houses depleted by the same amount. There were always young people coming into the market, waiting lists and the like. To be blunt, when a tenant died, the house was available to rent, when a RTB owner died the house wasn’t available to rent.

I would imagine a business case for building new council properties is tough to make if they might need to be sold to their tenants at a significant discount from market value,

 

[torchomatic]

Fucking hell, Sunak is such a prick. We're witnessing the dying moments of his Premiership and he's getting desperate.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Fucking hell, Sunak is such a prick. We're witnessing the dying moments of his Premiership and he's getting desperate.

Still getting rounds of applause for repeating some truly appalling statements.

 

[stupot07]

Fucking hell, Sunak is such a prick. We're witnessing the dying moments of his Premiership and he's getting desperate.

Yet again another example of BBC biased moderating.

 

[MalcSB]

EV infrastructure - crap.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Still getting rounds of applause for repeating some truly appalling statements.

For those of us who didn't watch, what are the highlights?

 

[chiefdave]

They are also showing zero respect for the facilitator - the fact they thing talking over her makes them look better or scores them point beggars belief

It still amazes me that you can have supposedly intelligent people prepared for these events by huge teams of people some of whom must have a vague idea what they're doing yet they're so consistently bad.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

For those of us who didn't watch, what are the highlights?

Endlessly repeating the following:

‘Don’t surrender our borders to Labour’
‘The illegal immigrants are all queuing up waiting for a Starmer government’
‘Labour will destroy your family finances’

The exchange on ‘the illegals’ was the most depressing of all. Sunak trying to act like Rwanda is simultaneously a deterrent but not as bad as sending people back where they came from. But worst of all, a dialogue that treats desperate people as the criminals being applauded by swathes of the audience.

I can’t believe that it has become a serious policy point to be discussing.

 

[Ian1779]

Stay classy Keir….

 

[Sbarcher]

Right to buy wasn’t great was it? Unless you are like Angela Rayner and exercised that right.

Wasn’t the idea of right to buy that the monies raised by local authorities would be spent on building new houses thus creating an ongoing stream of social housing?

 

[Ashdown]

Endlessly repeating the following:

‘Don’t surrender our borders to Labour’
‘The illegal immigrants are all queuing up waiting for a Starmer government’
‘Labour will destroy your family finances’

The exchange on ‘the illegals’ was the most depressing of all. Sunak trying to act like Rwanda is simultaneously a deterrent but not as bad as sending people back where they came from. But worst of all, a dialogue that treats desperate people as the criminals being applauded by swathes of the audience.

I can’t believe that it has become a serious policy point to be discussing.

If the numbers were very low it wouldn’t be an issue but they’re not, they are staggering!

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

If the numbers were very low it wouldn’t be an issue but they’re not, they are staggering!

Mostly student visas or overstays still though