Do you want to discuss boring politics? (34 Viewers)

[wingy]

Yeah carrying around tons of highly explosive material to charge a battery makes way more sense than just charging it on the grid.

You can use a standard car with kit?

 

---

[shmmeee]

You can use a standard car with kit?

Not the same thing. When people talk about hydrogen they mean fuel cells running electric motors.

 

[skybluetony176]

You do wonder WTF a lot of them, especially Home Secretaries have been doing. Like Bravermann banging on about migration when she oversaw in net 700k+

Saying that the home office has always been a shitshow (I remember John Reid calling them out 25 years or so ago)

I’ll have to see if I can find it but there was an article out not long after the Afghanistan withdrawal debacle saying that basically all government ministers with very few exceptions have zero idea how government actually works and even less interest in finding out so they announce policies but have no idea about how to start implementing them and are never understanding their brief. It was written around Raab specifically but if I remember correctly the only 2 ministers they said actually had the ability to deliver the policy was Sunak and Gove. Which explains a lot, especially since 2019. And probably explains why we haven’t been shipping foreign criminals home to serve their sentences.

 

[skybluetony176]

Yeah carrying around tons of highly explosive material to charge a battery makes way more sense than just charging it on the grid.

You mean like petrol?


As a side note Hydrogen is only dangerous when it’s not handled correctly, that issue has long been solved. Secondly a hydrogen fuel cell doesn’t charge a battery, the cell is essentially a very simple generator with no moving parts. Hydrogen goes in and electricity and water comes out.

 

[shmmeee]

You mean like petrol?


As a side note Hydrogen is only dangerous when it’s not handled correctly, that issue has long been solved. Secondly a hydrogen fuel cell doesn’t charge a battery, the cell is essentially a very simple generator with no moving parts. Hydrogen goes in and electricity and water comes out.

Fair. It drives the motor directly.

It’s just overly complex and inefficient. You’re using electricity to generate hydrogen then transporting and storing it then turning it back to electricity. Batteries will be simpler, cheaper and more efficient in energy transfer. The only place hydrogen helps is where weight is super important, maybe with planes. But as a mass fuel for billions of cars, no way.

Even companies like Toyota that bet the farm on hydrogen have backed off. It’s just not viable for cars.

 

[clint van damme]

I’ll have to see if I can find it but there was an article out not long after the Afghanistan withdrawal debacle saying that basically all government ministers with very few exceptions have zero idea how government actually works and even less interest in finding out so they announce policies but have no idea about how to start implementing them and are never understanding their brief. It was written around Raab specifically but if I remember correctly the only 2 ministers they said actually had the ability to deliver the policy was Sunak and Gove. Which explains a lot, especially since 2019. And probably explains why we haven’t been shipping foreign criminals home to serve their sentences.

The more you hear, the clearer it is just how inept the tories have been over the last few years.
I still don't agree with much of Starmers policies but the way he's going about business seems much more professional so far.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I love democracy - ministers will outsource decisions to an unelected OBR

Stability will be the cornerstone of my Government’s economic policy and every decision will be consistent with its fiscal rules. It will legislate to ensure that all significant tax and spending changes are subject to an independent assessment by the Office for Budget Responsibility [Budget Responsibility Bill]

 

[skybluetony176]

Fair. It drives the motor directly.

It’s just overly complex and inefficient. You’re using electricity to generate hydrogen then transporting and storing it then turning it back to electricity. Batteries will be simpler, cheaper and more efficient in energy transfer. The only place hydrogen helps is where weight is super important, maybe with planes. But as a mass fuel for billions of cars, no way.

Even companies like Toyota that bet the farm on hydrogen have backed off. It’s just not viable for cars.

So it’s no different to petrol or diesel then in that respect but without the pollution. Batteries only stack up on efficiency if you start the clock much later in the production process or in some cases at point of use.

I’m not sure if Toyota are backing off but Hyundai and BMW are joining the party in a big way, Hyundai with hydrogen models in production and more on the way BMW I think have a model coming out this year if it isn’t already out. There’s also more filling stations in the pipeline in the UK, when you compare the UK to the rest of Europe we’re well behind. Europe seems to have an appetite for it so it’s coming.

 

[MalcSB]

So it’s no different to petrol or diesel then in that respect but without the pollution. Batteries only stack up on efficiency if you start the clock much later in the production process or in some cases at point of use.

I’m not sure if Toyota are backing off but Hyundai and BMW are joining the party in a big way, Hyundai with hydrogen models in production and more on the way BMW I think have a model coming out this year if it isn’t already out. There’s also more filling stations in the pipeline in the UK, when you compare the UK to the rest of Europe we’re well behind. Europe seems to have an appetite for it so it’s coming.

That’s the worry about a 2030 ban on new ICE cars. Different to Labour’s chums in Europe and limits opportunity for other technologies to mature.

 

[Grendel]

That’s the worry about a 2030 ban on new ICE cars. Different to Labour’s chums in Europe and limits opportunity for other technologies to mature.

The ban in reality will be impractical when it’s out of sync with Europe. We won’t be seeing hardly any hydrogen cars in tbe next 15 years

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

You do wonder WTF a lot of them, especially Home Secretaries have been doing. Like Bravermann banging on about migration when she oversaw in net 700k+

Saying that the home office has always been a shitshow (I remember John Reid calling them out 25 years or so ago)

Genuinely the only time I saw the Home Office in action was when their enforcement agents were breaking in to the Oriental Palace on London Rd

 

[MalcSB]

The ban in reality will be impractical when it’s out of sync with Europe. We won’t be seeing hardly any hydrogen cars in tbe next 15 years

The cynic In me wonders whether the announcement of a unilateral UK new ICE ban is merely a bargaining chip. Our European chums‘ car manufacturers can’t be thrilled. The Chinese on the other hand will be thrilled.

 

[skybluetony176]

The cynic In me wonders whether the announcement of a unilateral UK new ICE ban is merely a bargaining chip. Our European chums‘ car manufacturers can’t be thrilled. The Chinese on the other hand will be thrilled.

China is having a major push on hydrogen vehicles too. China sees hydrogen very much as the future, especially in the home market, sales were up 70% last year alone for hydrogen vehicles. They’ve also developed a way of producing hydrogen from sea water without desalinating it first which is a major step in hydrogen production efficiency.

 

[MalcSB]

China is having a major push on hydrogen vehicles too. China sees hydrogen very much as the future, especially in the home market, sales were up 70% last year alone for hydrogen vehicles. They’ve also developed a way of producing hydrogen from sea water without desalinating it first which is a major step in hydrogen production efficiency.

Heads they win, tails we lose then.

 

[Boicey]

Absolute lunatics.

 

[MalcSB]

Maybe thats the answer,offshore wind and coast line solar powering seawater hydrogen production. Hysdrigen distributed by existing infrastructure.

 

[CCFCSteve]

The more you hear, the clearer it is just how inept the tories have been over the last few years.
I still don't agree with much of Starmers policies but the way he's going about business seems much more professional so far.

Sensible, considered and professional…you’d imagine these are the basic prerequisites for a party and it’s leader but maybe not.

 

[CCFCSteve]

China is having a major push on hydrogen vehicles too. China sees hydrogen very much as the future, especially in the home market, sales were up 70% last year alone for hydrogen vehicles. They’ve also developed a way of producing hydrogen from sea water without desalinating it first which is a major step in hydrogen production efficiency.

Don’t know enough about hydrogen as a viable option currently but I did see this

120 scientists write open letter to remove Toyota hydrogen car from Paris Olympics

The Mirai is an official vehicle of the games, but the scientists want this to change. A group of engineers, scientists, and academics recently wrote an open l

www.hydrogenfuelnews.com

As you say there might be newer better ways in future but I get the impression they’re some way off

 

[MalcSB]

It’s because the electricity used to produce the hydrogen is not zero carbon, it is carbon fuelled (methane it says).

The process I described would be zero carbon emissions.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Absolute lunatics.

View attachment 36971

Surely that's something out of the Onion?

 

[MalcSB]

The issue is how you make the hydrogen in the first place. At the moment, we actually make it from methane (natural gas), so you aren’t solving the problem there either. If you used solar to split water though, you’d have truly renewable energy and fuel sources.

I thought this odd at the time. Hydrogen isn't made from methane, it’s made by the electrolysis of water. The problem is where the electricity is coming from and that may be being produced using methane.

 

[clint van damme]

Absolute lunatics.

View attachment 36971

When you buy a pack of memory foam pillows from Wish

 

[fernandopartridge]

The more you hear, the clearer it is just how inept the tories have been over the last few years.
I still don't agree with much of Starmers policies but the way he's going about business seems much more professional so far.

Labour isn't planning on giving its ministers any greater remit, they will like their predecessors be beholden to the Treasury or its enforcers the OBR. It's even being written into law.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I thought this odd at the time. Hydrogen isn't made from methane, it’s made by the electrolysis of water. The problem is where the electricity is coming from and that may be being produced using methane.

No-most is currently made by reacting steam and methane.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

No-most is currently made by reacting steam and methane.

Fantastic. Opportunity for more sirloin steaks.

 

[MalcSB]

The more you hear, the clearer it is just how inept the tories have been over the last few years.
I still don't agree with much of Starmers policies but the way he's going about business seems much more professional so far.

More draconian to be sure. Will be interesting when Just Stop Pylons and Development Rebellion take to the streets

 

[MalcSB]

No-most is currently made by reacting steam and methane.

Well, everyday is a school day.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Fantastic. Opportunity for more sirloin steaks.

Or more beans for Mrs BSB

 

[skybluetony176]

Don’t know enough about hydrogen as a viable option currently but I did see this

120 scientists write open letter to remove Toyota hydrogen car from Paris Olympics

The Mirai is an official vehicle of the games, but the scientists want this to change. A group of engineers, scientists, and academics recently wrote an open l

www.hydrogenfuelnews.com

As you say there might be newer better ways in future but I get the impression they’re some way off

Oh there’s many different types of hydrogen. The most readily available is a byproduct of oil and gas refining so evidently there’s a need to invest in green hydrogen production, it’s happening, just not as quickly as it needs to. But with regards to the article you can say the exact same of battery cars, if the electricity you’re putting into it is generated mainly through fossil fuels you have the same issue. And that’s before you get into the carbon footprint of producing the battery in the car in the first place.

 

[skybluetony176]

Labour isn't planning on giving its ministers any greater remit, they will like their predecessors be beholden to the Treasury or its enforcers the OBR. It's even being written into law.

I think that’s missing the point. The point was that ministers didn’t understand how to get policy moving so government became stagnant. The constraints you’re talking about already exist, it was incompetence that was the major constraint in delivering policy. Or that was the suggestion in the article anyway.

 

[Boicey]

Surely that's something out of the Onion?

Republicans wear ear bandages in 'solidarity' with Trump

Several members of the RNC's Arizona delegation were spotted helping Trump 'set a new fashion statement'.

www.bbc.co.uk

The video is a modern classic.

 

[wingy]

Never forget this is the guy who said he could stand out in fifth avenue or the like with a gun and nobody would touch him,is that accurate?
Anyway enough,took a few years to see the Queen, not welcome!

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Oh there’s many different types of hydrogen. The most readily available is a byproduct of oil and gas refining so evidently there’s a need to invest in green hydrogen production, it’s happening, just not as quickly as it needs to. But with regards to the article you can say the exact same of battery cars, if the electricity you’re putting into it is generated mainly through fossil fuels you have the same issue. And that’s before you get into the carbon footprint of producing the battery in the car in the first place.

One other slight issue is that the chemical components of these batteries are pretty finite so I’m not sure how the world would switch to them. A solar electric grid powering the water splitting reaction to make hydrogen should work though.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I think that’s missing the point. The point was that ministers didn’t understand how to get policy moving so government became stagnant. The constraints you’re talking about already exist, it was incompetence that was the major constraint in delivering policy. Or that was the suggestion in the article anyway.

I'm not interested in that point as it is irrelevant really, Tory ministers' interest in their duties has nothing to do with the current government.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Oh dear. They really are a mess.

Ursula von der Leyen secures five more years top EU job

Ursula von der Leyen is re-elected as European Commission president after a secret ballot among MEPs.

www.bbc.co.uk