MalcSB
Well-Known Member
What??? As opposed to private helicopters???
Do you want to discuss boring politics? (27 Viewers)
- Thread starter mrtrench
- Start date
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
I dunno, even The CAA seem pretty socialist.
MalcSB
Well-Known Member
This is all getting a bit Salvador Dali.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
I thought we were saying we have to take the most extreme form of our particular wing and live accordingly lest we be deemed hypocritical. So no private property for lefties and nothing that isn’t private property for righties.
MalcSB
Well-Known Member
I was going to put Offwiththeirheads, but realised that this could be viewed as an incitement to violence and not freedom of speech trying to be humorous (and no doubt failing).
On that basis I won’t post it.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
These days mate, you spray pakis out on a wall and threaten to burn down immigration centres while lobbing missiles at the police, they throw you in jail. Political correctness gawn mad I tell ya.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Inspirational
Keir Starmer set to warn: 'Things will get worse before we get better'
The Conservatives have disputed Labour's claim they left a black hole in the public finances.
www.bbc.co.uk
SBAndy
Well-Known Member
Inspirational
Keir Starmer set to warn: 'Things will get worse before we get better'
The Conservatives have disputed Labour's claim they left a black hole in the public finances.www.bbc.co.uk
Explains the lack of D:Ream in the campaign.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
The justice system is a disgrace
Prisons especially
Grendel
Well-Known Member
You can try and imprison people in a week now
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
It’s all fucked Pete. If we were a company we’d either be sold off for parts (arguably already happened in the 80s), or loaded with debt to try and rebuild.
If you’re not willing to raise revenue or debt then managed decline is all that’s left.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Maybe that’s the way my friend
Listening to rest is politics us. There’s a fatalism about what’s next for their democracy broken trump or hopeful Kamala they do but not without challenge
Maybe we are in the last stages
We need to find our new identity not focus on the pillaging one we used to be
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
I don’t think we as humanity or Western civilisation are close to the end. I think this country has managed between the treasury and the great British love of a moan managed to make it so we refuse to take any action. The political landscape is so narrow and shallow and the media landscape so relentlessly hostile we just refuse to do anything despite both wings and the centre all agreeing we can’t go on like this.
The rules we’ve set mean we can’t fix anything without raising taxes. On balance the democratic mandate for a higher tax nation is bigger than for a low tax environment with minimal public services. But we either need to move to Singapore style capitalism or Europe style social democracy.
Just so frustrating. Life is what happens when you’re making plans. If after 14 years of shit for dinner your plan is for just a few more turd sandwiches then it’s jam tomorrow I’m not sure you have a plan. My eldest was born with four months of the Labour govt left. Her entire life has been things getting steadily worse on the promise that this time next year Rodney we’ll be a functioning country.
Starmer and Reeves need to do something. Anything to show they understand that simply keeping the books balanced while we slide into irrelevance isn’t a moral quest.
The West (and some of wider world ie China) has dug itself a massive debt hole and this was exacerbated by the pandemic and the subsequent inflation/CB increases in rates around the world - leading to countries borrowing costs going through the roof.
The pretty draconian decisions/measures taken during the pandemic ie closing down large sections of economies around the world which was paid for by flooding the world with QE and paying people to stay at home, meant it felt we got off lightly at the time.
There was always going to be a payback but society just doesn’t want to pick up the tab
I do think not to follow through on growth/infrastructure projects, even if it means slightly higher taxes and/or increased borrowing, would be a massive mistake though
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
The West (and some of wider world ie China) has dug itself a massive debt hole and this was exacerbated by the pandemic and the subsequent inflation/CB increases in rates around the world - leading to countries borrowing costs going through the roof.
The pretty draconian decisions/measures taken during the pandemic ie closing down large sections of economies around the world which was paid for by flooding the world with QE and paying people to stay at home, meant it felt we got off lightly at the time.
There was always going to be a payback but society just doesn’t want to pick up the tab
I do think not to follow through on growth/infrastructure projects, even if it means slightly higher taxes and/or increased borrowing, would be a massive mistake though
In the past when we had a worldwide crisis leading to large amounts of government debt, we soaked the rich. Just saying.
I (and by all polling a majority of the British public) am obviously on the side of higher taxes and a working state.
But I can see the arguments on the sensible sliver of the right for a Singapore strategy.
But what we can’t do is carry on pretending to voters we can offer low taxes and a large state. Though it seems to me that the voices against higher taxes is significantly smaller but better resourced than the voices against further cutting state capacity.
The right moan about the debt, then want to spend billions on tax cuts that no one even noticed for ideological reasons. The NI cut bumped neither productivity nor government approval. The very definition of waste.
Nick
Administrator
Im not sure making people pick up the tab for people being forced to stay at home is the right approach. Especially when a lot of people still had to work all the way through it.The West (and some of wider world ie China) has dug itself a massive debt hole and this was exacerbated by the pandemic and the subsequent inflation/CB increases in rates around the world - leading to countries borrowing costs going through the roof.
The pretty draconian decisions/measures taken during the pandemic ie closing down large sections of economies around the world which was paid for by flooding the world with QE and paying people to stay at home, meant it felt we got off lightly at the time.
There was always going to be a payback but society just doesn’t want to pick up the tab
I do think not to follow through on growth/infrastructure projects, even if it means slightly higher taxes and/or increased borrowing, would be a massive mistake though
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Because you and I don’t have the ability to write a column in The Times with a quick email when we don’t like a tax policy.
Nick
Administrator
They should probably find all of the people who benefited from lockdown whether it's PPE or vaccines and get them to pay.
Same as starmers promise about energy bills....
The worlds changed shmmeee, it’s very easy for the very richest to live and work where they want and find ways of avoiding tax, compared to the past. France tried to ‘soak the rich’ when hollande was in and soon had to change tact.
There does need to be some way of getting the super rich to pay larger sums of tax but ultimately it would have to be done on a global scale, same as I’ve been saying for corporate taxes. Too many countries with vested interests in not allowing this though. Even with this the amount of government debts are just eye watering so I’m guessing the only solution in the short term will be carry on printing/QE, gradual debasement of currencies and then hope something like AI generates higher levels of productivity and growth in future….some kind of fundamental change
It’s critical that we find ways to invest and encourage investment in key future growth areas in the meantime though. Also if starmer can find some ways to improve trading relationship with Europe it would make sense for both sides
I agree it was too generous for the need IMO because most couldn't use it for general everyday expenditure and either saved it, tucked it away for later or spent it on doing up their gardens etc!
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Yeah this has been the counter argument since 2008. Rich people are leaving anyway because other countries are already better to live in.
I just don’t buy that it will have such a massive impact. The idea the rich will run away and leave all productive activity in the world’s fifth largest economy seems fanciful to me and we’ve tried the alternative for decades and it hasn’t worked either.
As my therapist used to say: doing nothing is a choice too. And we’ve done it for a good 20 years.
Im not saying they all would leave, I just don’t think what ends up being generated would make the difference you think and in some cases could cause more longer term damage than good
France forced to drop 75% supertax after meagre returns
Hollande’s measure was meant to force wealthiest to help dig country out of economic crisis, but was accused of being anti-business
Also if corporate tax levels didn’t matter then how come Ireland has done so well with 12.5% Corp tax
As I say, I think super rich and huge multi nationals should pay more tax, but it ain’t that easy and anything considered punitive is unlikely to be the long term answer unless it’s under some kind of global structure
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Has Ireland done well?Im not saying they all would leave, I just don’t think what ends up being generated would make the difference you think and in some cases could cause more longer term damage than good
France forced to drop 75% supertax after meagre returns
Hollande’s measure was meant to force wealthiest to help dig country out of economic crisis, but was accused of being anti-businesswww.theguardian.com
Also if corporate tax levels didn’t matter then how come Ireland has done so well with 12.5% Corp tax
As I say, I think super rich and huge multi nationals should pay more tax, but it ain’t that easy and anything considered punitive is unlikely to be the long term answer unless it’s under some kind of global structure
Weren't the EU all about this?Im not saying they all would leave, I just don’t think what ends up being generated would make the difference you think and in some cases could cause more longer term damage than good
France forced to drop 75% supertax after meagre returns
Hollande’s measure was meant to force wealthiest to help dig country out of economic crisis, but was accused of being anti-business
Also if corporate tax levels didn’t matter then how come Ireland has done so well with 12.5% Corp tax
As I say, I think super rich and huge multi nationals should pay more tax, but it ain’t that easy and anything considered punitive is unlikely to be the long term answer unless it’s under some kind of global structure
MalcSB
Well-Known Member
Can you point me to those polls.
TBG the general election returned a party who said they wouldn’t raise taxes or hit pensioners.
Oh, hang on a minute!
And we still have October to come.
In terms of corporate tax receipts, yes (also probably helped when we voted brexit)
Grendel
Well-Known Member
of course it has - that’s why it lowered the tax. Big organisations would threaten to move
Yeah, I think so (might be wrong) trying to have standard ish rates across the EU but allowed Ireland to do their own thing.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Lovin the change being delivered
Ireland’s low corp tax has continued to be tolerated in the EU due to fallout from the GFC. Ireland agreed to bail its banks out during the crisis using taxpayer money. The German banking system was massively exposed to Irish debt as it had been speculating and fueling ‘Celtic tiger’ boom that preceded the crash.
So the Irish decision to bail out their banks (and by extension, Germany’s) did our Teutonic friends a massive solid. It’s believed that an ’understanding’ was reached whereby Germany would persuade other EU members not to oppose Ireland’s low rates in order to allow them to recoup their losses and allowing Germany (on the face of it) to maintain its reputation for financial prudence.
The EU denies that it ever forced Ireland to bail out its banks and as time goes by, the pressure for Irish corp tax rates to fall in line with other EU states will probably become overwhelming.
So the Irish decision to bail out their banks (and by extension, Germany’s) did our Teutonic friends a massive solid. It’s believed that an ’understanding’ was reached whereby Germany would persuade other EU members not to oppose Ireland’s low rates in order to allow them to recoup their losses and allowing Germany (on the face of it) to maintain its reputation for financial prudence.
The EU denies that it ever forced Ireland to bail out its banks and as time goes by, the pressure for Irish corp tax rates to fall in line with other EU states will probably become overwhelming.
MalcSB
Well-Known Member
It’s bollocks isnt it. Fucking lies so they can renege yet again on what they said before the election.
MalcSB
Well-Known Member
The Irish will once again reap all the benefits of being a compliant member of the EU.