Grendel
Well-Known Member
You seem to be advocating long prison sentences as a way to reduce crime?
Do you want to discuss boring politics? (26 Viewers)
- Thread starter mrtrench
- Start date
You seem to be advocating long prison sentences as a way to reduce crime?
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
No asking about his action that was panned by you and others seeming to have stopped the rioting
Is that a good thing?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I’m not convinced it did stop it but then I wasn’t convinced thatcher stopped the miners by winning the battle of Orgreave. Still if that is what floats your boat.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Ok so it hasn’t stopped or his words had no impact or the sentence and policing wasn’t to do with him?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Im not sure what point you are making. The riots started under his watch and not under Sunak. His words of course have no impact - water cannons, torture, mass police brutality I’m sure would and it’s something I’ve always favoured
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Either completely stupid (most likely) or incredibly disingenuous. Or actually perhaps both:
Why do some of the worst people in the party sit in the safest seats like this dickhead?
Why do some of the worst people in the party sit in the safest seats like this dickhead?
MalcSB
Well-Known Member
Its actually bare faced lies.
If anything might have crashed the economy, it would have been agreeing to large pay rises with no attached productivity requirements, not continuing to pay a long standing benefit costing a fraction as much. Clearly that hasnt happened because the inherited economy is heading in the right direction.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Love this weird right wing delusion that’s popped up that you just ask workers for productivity improvements. Where have you guys been for the last 40 years? We needed you! Or that your pay not being cut is a “large pay rise”.
Why do right wingers wants everyone to be poor yet claim to be capitalists? Well never know.
MalcSB
Well-Known Member
I wasn’t trying to makes those points per se, we have already been around those. I was suggesting that there have been more expensive recent financial costs agreed that would have been more likely to crash the economy than continuing with the winter fuel allowance.
Still, you haven't disagreed with either the fact that Lucy Powell has told bare faced lies on behalf of the Labour government, or that the inherited economy is heading in the right direction. Let’s hope that doesn’t “change”.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
No the winter fuel allowance thing is bollocks. What crashed the economy was pointless unfunded tax cuts to the tune of tens of billions. Labour could and should just reverse the ludicrous NI cut Hunt threw in before he was kicked out.
The inherited economy is fucked. I don’t see how you can look at the UKs economic performance the last 16 years and say anything else. And a quarters anaemic growth doesn’t come close to changing that. Carrying on with the thinking that fucked it is …. A choice.
MalcSB
Well-Known Member
I was t discussing what crashed the economy, I was discussing the lie that leaving winter fuel allowance as it was would crash the economy.
Strongest economic growth in the G7 may be a anaemic to you, but if there is a downturn it will be haemorrhaging. If that happens going forward it will be a “change” consequent to this governments actions. Hopefully that won’t happen.
You are right about the NI. I thought it had been increased at one point by 1% to support the social care cap. It was quite a cynical plot by Hunt to reduce it. I am surprised that not going forward with the social care cap hasn’t attracted more opprobrium.
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shmmeee
Well-Known Member
I know. I was agreeing that the idea the winter fuel payment would crash the economy was bollocks.
Strongest growth from what base? Stop getting distracted by quarterly figures. Look at the medium view:
Or even the long view
I guess it's a late bomb on a future government , and the fuel payment is a consequence of retrieval, bit of a swinish thing to do but harder to take the NI back at the end of the day?
I think that chats now out of date. Not pretty but not as pronounced. Gap was also due to narrow further with Europe this year as our growth has been higher than anticipated
Agree that the winter fuel allowance changes won’t change things at all. The government do need to be careful not to discourage growth/investment though, possibly already have a little with some of the noises coming out meaning people will sit tight until Oct budget
MalcSB
Well-Known Member
Well, the winter fuel allowance will change things for many pensioners. Let’s hope for a warm winter.
I’m not sure people are sitting tight, many suggestions that they are divesting now to avoid the likes of increases in CGT.
In terms of comparisons with pre pandemic, is there any data to indicate the proportions of people who continue to work from home?
MalcSB
Well-Known Member
I suppose the big question is why did UK economy plunge so far in the pandemic. The recovery from the low point has been far stronger than the US or Eurozone, even after Trussonomics. Which kind of proves the point that the UKs improvement has been outperforming these comparators. Perhaps Starmer needs some new glasses.
So strongest growth from the base of everybody's simultaneous low point.
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Maybe look at the exchange rate, should come with the BOE leading from the front but slow as usual!
They'll snuff out any growth through their greed,if they're allowed?
I don’t disagree. I was just saying I don’t think it will material impact the growth numbers…although will obviously suck a little bit out of economy
Also agree about people accelerating sales due to concerns about CGT, I was talking about people sitting tight in terms of investment/growth decisions
MalcSB
Well-Known Member
Well, at least the government has invested £8billion in an energy company. That should do the trick!
Legalising the collection it takes to fund war's and the like if you ask me!
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
How does increasing money in the economy crash it?
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
If even one pensioner dies as a consequence of the fuel allowance grab…
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Separate note. We did some looking into childcare support from the government-and it turns out that as a postgraduate student we fall through the cracks and are eligible for nothing until the 15 hours of universal care kicks in at age 3.
The other support either requires both parents to be in work or to be undergrads. Seems fair.
The other support either requires both parents to be in work or to be undergrads. Seems fair.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Classic Labour "third way" exercise here:
MalcSB
Well-Known Member
Im not saying it does, but the unfunded costs are greater than that saved from winter fuel allowance. She simply shouldn't have come out with what is yet another cock and bull story.
People say that Truss screwed the economy through unfunded tax cuts. Isn't unfunded expenditure the other side of the coin?
When it is paid for by increases in taxation, won't that leave people with less money in their pockets?
Ask an economist.
RegTheDonk
Well-Known Member
Well thats the play offs fucked then. No point MR telling the players to work harder.
Doug's fault, he should up the win bonus.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Nothing is unfunded, you're retired so you will have the time to read this:
The self-financing state: An institutional analysis
This paper is an institutional analysis of government expenditure, revenue collection and debt issuance operations in the United Kingdom.
MalcSB
Well-Known Member
Believe it or not I've got some other papers to read for a meeting tomorrow.Nothing is unfunded, you're retired so you will have the time to read this:
The self-financing state: An institutional analysis
This paper is an institutional analysis of government expenditure, revenue collection and debt issuance operations in the United Kingdom.www.ucl.ac.uk
What causes an economy to crash then? How did Truss seem too achieve it - could she just have created new money by drawing on the sovereign line of debt?
PS Just looked at last paragraph. There is a magic money tree!!
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fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Truss advocated tax cuts for nothing. It's nothing like deficit spending specifically aimed at generating extra economic activity and capacity.
The government approving the pay award for the train drivers was not even necessarily dependent on any new government spending in any case, it was more that it needed DfT approval as the entity procuring the franchise.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
The 'far-right' win again in Germany. Not really surprising given the recent terror attacks again.
The BBC's response: "You are only allowed to vote if you agree with me".
The BBC's response: "You are only allowed to vote if you agree with me".
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Not sure what the inverted commas are for.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
You would if this had been a win for the, ahem, 'far-left'.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Doesn’t answer my question. How is it not a far right party?
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
It isn't relevant. Anything that isn't left is 'far-right'. It's more or less lost its meaning. It is odd that this is the only nugget you've taken out of the post.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Not when a former leader quit the party because of this, and not when the party has associated itself with historical revisionists and a policy of deporting immigrants. It is in fact among the most radical far right parties in Europe to have meaningful support.