Do you want to discuss boring politics? (25 Viewers)

[Nick]

They say it makes it fairer. So a track worker whose earned low wages but had a substantial fully taxed and contributed pension fund - which he is already taxed on withdrawals - can no longer on death give his family the funds - it’s stupid

The worker party.

Another reason for people to not want to better themselves

 

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[MalcSB]

Why didnt they raid funds to public sector workers as well or did they just do it for a laugh

Public sector pensions don’t leave a pot of money after death which can be bequeathed to someone - there is nothing to tax.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Won't someone please think of the boomers with 60 buy to let properties, it's about time they had some luck go their way

This is satire surely?

 

[MalcSB]

Won't someone please think of the boomers with 60 buy to let properties, it's about time they had some luck go their way

Oh dear, what a shame.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Won't someone please think of the boomers with 60 buy to let properties, it's about time they had some luck go their way

Wtaf

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Fabulous investment in hmrc to increase revenues and make people pay what they owe

Good to see

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

The worker party.

Another reason for people to not want to better themselves

Really?
You think the playing field is level?
there has never been more of a gap beteeen the have and the have nots and it’s not all hard work in fact probably most work hard and don’t get the breaks

Levelling up isn’t just necessary for fairness it’s how civilisations are broken having such large inequality

 

[Nick]

Really?
You think the playing field is level?
there has never been more of a gap beteeen the have and the have nots and it’s not all hard work in fact probably most work hard and don’t get the breaks

Levelling up isn’t just necessary for fairness it’s how civilisations are broken having such large inequality

Of course it's not, if I was born to a Duke or something rather than to a lorry driver and secretary then my life would be much different.

There is never going to be a level playing field but people should still want to do the best for themselves. My point is that sometimes it gets to the point where you think "whats the actual point in my breaking my back to work so hard?"

It won't be the Duke's kids who get fucked over when they die, it will be the kids of people in the middle who have worked their arses off and done the best they can in life with what they were given.

 

[Grendel]

Yeah won’t someone think of the track workers (please ignore the large scale tax avoidance behind the curtain)

They are ignoring the tax avoidance as discretionary trusts are still allowed which the rich use to put their savings and investments in - its only worker pensions that are targeted.

 

[Grendel]

Really?
You think the playing field is level?
there has never been more of a gap beteeen the have and the have nots and it’s not all hard work in fact probably most work hard and don’t get the breaks

Levelling up isn’t just necessary for fairness it’s how civilisations are broken having such large inequality

"There has never been as much as a gap between the haves and the have nots" - that I doubt

Anyway Reeves has this morning admitting taxing business with higher NI costs will mean reduced pay rises for the workers - they just have to take the pain.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

The gap between the haves & have nots has indeed been wider, but the rise of the middle classes makes it a bit blurred when you look at trends. In 1900 the gap was way bigger, but the middle class was minuscule compared to today.

In 2023 the richest 50 families in the U.K. held more wealth than half the total population, and if the wealth of the ‘haves’ continues at current rates, the wealth of the richest 200 families will be larger than the entire U.K. GDP by 2035.

we’re about average on wealth inequality in global terms, but one of the most unequal countries in the world when it’s based on income.. all sourced here which looks like an interesting site.

How Has Inequality Changed? - Equality Trust

Levels of inequality changed dramatically over the course of the 20th century. Overall income inequality fell from a high point in the 1930s, remained fairly static until 1979, and then increased dramatically from 1979 to 1991. Since 1991, the trend has been more volatile, affected by Great...

equalitytrust.org.uk

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Of course it's not, if I was born to a Duke or something rather than to a lorry driver and secretary then my life would be much different.

There is never going to be a level playing field but people should still want to do the best for themselves. My point is that sometimes it gets to the point where you think "whats the actual point in my breaking my back to work so hard?"

It won't be the Duke's kids who get fucked over when they die, it will be the kids of people in the middle who have worked their arses off and done the best they can in life with what they were given.

Yep just remembered the phrase I’ve always liked but it’s still impossible for the reason you make

Equality of opportunity is the desire isn’t it and steps put in place to aim for that

 

[Grendel]

Yep just remembered the phrase I’ve always liked but it’s still impossible for the reason you make

Equality of opportunity is the desire isn’t it and steps put in place to aim for that

The only way you will get equality of opportunity is if there is no opportunity at all.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

The only way you will get equality of opportunity is if there is no opportunity at all.

Oh ye of little creative thought
It’s an aim it’s how we define structural changes we make

 

[Grendel]

Oh ye of little creative thought
It’s an aim it’s how we define structural changes we make

It is total nonsense.

If you want such a society go and live in Cuba

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

It is total nonsense.

If you want such a society go and live in Cuba

Course it’s not nonsense
We have literal legislation on equality you banana

 

[Grendel]

Course it’s not nonsense
We have literal legislation on equality you banana

You are talking about equality of opportunity.

So therefore one would assume that starts with education. So everyone is educated to an equal standard.

The only way you do this is to equalise the system. How is that done? Even the comprehensive system is in essence rigged to the richer in society is it not?

 

[mmttww]

It is total nonsense.

If you want such a society go and live in Cuba

or work to try and make something that aims for it through who you vote for and some activism if you're feeling spicy! Never had you down as a cynic, Grendel. Where did that come from?

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

No one seems to know why they’ve done it.

It’s petty class warfare.

At the current rate, we’ll only have to put up with this lot until 2029.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

"There has never been as much as a gap between the haves and the have nots" - that I doubt

Anyway Reeves has this morning admitting taxing business with higher NI costs will mean reduced pay rises for the workers - they just have to take the pain.

The whole package of tax rises will tax workers indirectly in any case. The whole ‘no tax on working people’ was a lie and Labour was too cowardly to define the first place.

 

[fernandopartridge]

there is not going to be any austerity, if you think there is I have a bridge i'd love to sell you

How much do you want for the bridge, Dave?

 

[shmmeee]

The worker party.

Another reason for people to not want to better themselves

Yeah. You’d be a millionaire if it wasn’t for the taxes

 

[shmmeee]

You are talking about equality of opportunity.

So therefore one would assume that starts with education. So everyone is educated to an equal standard.

The only way you do this is to equalise the system. How is that done? Even the comprehensive system is in essence rigged to the richer in society is it not?

Are you *still* bitching about paying VAT on a luxury good?

Hope they double it next year.

 

[fernandopartridge]

The worker party.

Another reason for people to not want to better themselves

I mean this is just nonsense, people don't avoid bettering themselves because they think they're going to be taxed on it. Come off it ffs.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Oh ye of little creative thought
It’s an aim it’s how we define structural changes we make

A mealy mouthed responded Pete. Taxing the existing structures is not redefining them. The aim of the tax code ought to be maximising tax revenues and what we seen in the lead up to the budget was the Government begging wealth creators to stay put in the country.

It’s naive to put your faith in Government to redistribute wealth via public services. Especially without addressing public sector reform.

We get the government we deserve as a country and it will all backfire.

 

[shmmeee]

The whole package of tax rises will tax workers indirectly in any case. The whole ‘no tax on working people’ was a lie and Labour was too cowardly to define the first place.

It was fucking shorthand for NI VAT and IC very obviously.

 

[shmmeee]

I mean this is just nonsense, people don't avoid bettering themselves because they think they're going to be taxed on it. Come off it ffs.

There is one exception TBF. Lots of people just under £100k defer pay rises or pay into pensions or whatever if they have two young kids cos the loss of benefits and personal allowance makes the marginal rate ridiculous until £150k or so.

Outside of that it’s a nonsense.

 

[fernandopartridge]

A mealy mouthed responded Pete. Taxing the existing structures is not redefining them. The aim of the tax code ought to be maximising tax revenues and what we seen in the lead up to the budget was the Government begging wealth creators to stay out in the country.

It’s naive to put your faith in Government to redistribute wealth via public services. Especially without addressing public sector reform.

We get the government we deserve as a country and it will all backfire.

What do you mean by 'public sector reform'?

 

[fernandopartridge]

There is one exception TBF. Lots of people just under £100k defer pay rises or pay into pensions or whatever if they have two young kids cos the loss of benefits and personal allowance makes the marginal rate ridiculous until £150k or so.

Outside of that it’s a nonsense.

That person has bettered themselves by that point, they're just managing their income.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

It was fucking shorthand for NI VAT and IC very obviously.

Do you think it was an honest way to present their taxation policies to the electorate? I, no.

Which they proceeded to increase NI. In theory, it is a tax raise on employers. In practice, and Rachel Reeves herself has admitted, will reduce private sector pay rises. Therefore, it’s essentially an indirect tax on workers.

It’s funny, Sunak’s Labour costing £2,000 per household claim was derided in the election campaign, it may actually be a slight underestimate.

 

[shmmeee]

That person has bettered themselves by that point, they're just managing their income.

Yeah I was just taking better yourself as “earn more money than you are”. And we’re talking a tiny percentage of the population this applies to.

 

[shmmeee]

Do you think it was an honest way to present their taxation policies to the electorate? I, no.

Which they proceeded to increase NI. In theory, it is a tax raise on employers. In practice, and Rachel Reeves herself has admitted, will reduce private sector pay rises. Therefore, it’s essentially an indirect tax on workers.

It’s funny, Sunak’s Labour costing £2,000 per household claim was derided in the election campaign, it may actually be a slight underestimate.

“Indirectly” “essentially”

yeah you’re scrabbling.

What would you have cut given the £20bn of spending the Tories hid? And as you say seemed to know what they’d done because they priced it up pretty close (£1600 per household actually)

 

[Sick Boy]

Anyone who votes for Trump is garbage

The bot account seems to be malfunctioning.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

“Indirectly” “essentially”

yeah you’re scrabbling.

What would you have cut given the £20bn of spending the Tories hid? And as you say seemed to know what they’d done because they priced it up pretty close (£1600 per household actually)

If you think any tax that isn’t VAT, IC or NI does not impact ‘working people’, good for you.

Businesses aren’t stupid, they account for these taxes by either reducing pay for workers, freezing hires, relocating or passing increased costs to consumers.

Therefore, if you raise a new tax levy that has an impact on employees wages directly, you may as well have increased NI/IC. Likewise, if business increase the cost of products and/or services as a result of taxes, which they will. Again, you may as well have increased VAT.

A lot of businesses will freeze new hires and SMEs could struggle altogether to manage with these increases.

I’m just surprised that you seem to be wilfully ignorant of what is an obvious balance book trick by the Chancellor.

 

[Grendel]

Are you *still* bitching about paying VAT on a luxury good?

Hope they double it next year.

I am not paying VAT on it thanks.

I suspect the bitterness and jealousy us really is on you as your parents could not afford to send you or you were too thick to pass an entrance exam.