Do you want to discuss boring politics? (30 Viewers)

[MalcSB]

There’s not though is there? There’s rapid prosecuting of those inciting ongoing riots. At worst others are getting a visit from the local LGBTQ Relations Officer or whatever for a non crime hate incident.

Non crime hate incident

What a waste of time and hence money,

 

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[shmmeee]

Whilst apologising for my “shorthand” description, it’s still double standards isn’t it, or 2 tier justice.

We will probably have clean energy before those two are charged.

It’s not though. Surely you can see why during an ongoing series of riots it’s important to act swiftly to stop it continuing.

Outside of people inciting violence during an ongoing riot there is no “Starmers thought police”. It’s entirely a right wing meme. Some police forces have for years had overly zealous DEI type staff who go around tutting at people. Go and follow some anti gender feminists from 2017-ish under a Tory govt.

What’s happening is some very rich people think that they can do a trump over here and rile people up against all the institutions that might limit their power if they came to office. And a whole bunch of people who get most of their information from a phone not the real world believe it’s actually happening. I know Americans who think we live literally like 1984 here because of social media. It’s utter nonsense.

 

[shmmeee]

Non crime hate incident

What a waste of time and hence money,

Im inclined to agree. But it didn’t start in June!

 

[MalcSB]

It’s not though. Surely you can see why during an ongoing series of riots it’s important to act swiftly to stop it continuing.

Outside of people inciting violence during an ongoing riot there is no “Starmers thought police”. It’s entirely a right wing meme. Some police forces have for years had overly zealous DEI type staff who go around tutting at people. Go and follow some anti gender feminists from 2017-ish under a Tory govt.

What’s happening is some very rich people think that they can do a trump over here and rile people up against all the institutions that might limit their power if they came to office. And a whole bunch of people who get most of their information from a phone not the real world believe it’s actually happening. I know Americans who think we live literally like 1984 here because of social media. It’s utter nonsense.

Acting swiftly to stop a series of riots is entirely reasonable but not an excuse for the dragging of feet that appears to be happening in the airport case.

 

[shmmeee]

Acting swiftly to stop a series of riots is entirely reasonable but not an excuse for the dragging of feet that appears to be happening in the airport case.

No its not. And I imagine it’s doing no one any favours politically so why it’s dragging I have no idea.

On a few of these topics I agree with you on some parts, it’s the leap to “we’re run by a tyrannical government” instead of “sometimes bureaucracy makes things take ages” where you lose me. And I am deeply worried about the people pushing the latter very very hard with a lot of resources and their own or other countries best interests at heart.

I’d rather be ran by the worst democratically elected UK PM, than any American or Russian leader. The fact I have to make this argument in a country that voted Brexit under a “better to die on your feet than live on your knees” ethos is mind blowing to me.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

If you dig beyond the Daily Mail article it seems the assessments themselves are a bit of a shambles and instead of properly assessing people they're essentially looking out for key phrases and asking loaded questions designed to get answers which allow them to declare you fit for work.

That then led to people advising on how to handle an assessment and what questions to look out for as traps.

Of course that has led to the next step which is people working out how to game the system and how you can answer the questions to be declared not fit for work even if that isn't the case.

Essentially they need to use properly trained people to run a fit for purpose assessment but of course that would cost a lot more money.

Thank you

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

No its not. And I imagine it’s doing no one any favours politically so why it’s dragging I have no idea.

On a few of these topics I agree with you on some parts, it’s the leap to “we’re run by a tyrannical government” instead of “sometimes bureaucracy makes things take ages” where you lose me. And I am deeply worried about the people pushing the latter very very hard with a lot of resources and their own or other countries best interests at heart.

I’d rather be ran by the worst democratically elected UK PM, than any American or Russian leader. The fact I have to make this argument in a country that voted Brexit under a “better to die on your feet than live on your knees” ethos is mind blowing to me.

Where I agree with malc and possibly Farage is that there must be an answer to the question of why they haven’t been charged so what is it

Yvette cooper should just say and if she has I’m sorry, should just say it’s an ongoing investigation

 

[MalcSB]

Im inclined to agree. But it didn’t start in June!

True. It’s individualism gone mad. A tiny minority being considered more important than the majority.

 

[MalcSB]

Where I agree with malc and possibly Farage is that there must be an answer to the question of why they haven’t been charged so what is it

Yvette cooper should just say and if she has I’m sorry, should just say it’s an ongoing investigation

Manchester police have said the investigation has been completed though, and handed over to the CPS. What are they waiting for? Damning video evidence?

If they were white NF members I expect they would have been charged by now.

 

[chiefdave]

If they were white NF members I expect they would have been charged by now.

not sure about that tbh, the whole system is falling apart at the seems

https://www.itv.com/news/2024-12-04/criminal-justice-delays-worse-than-ive-ever-known-them-to-be-cps-head-says

 

[MalcSB]

not sure about that tbh, the whole system is falling apart at the seems

https://www.itv.com/news/2024-12-04/criminal-justice-delays-worse-than-ive-ever-known-them-to-be-cps-head-says

This is a bit of a repeat of what Duffer posted. Not a reason for charges not to have been made though. It certainly won’t get into the queue for a criminal court for the cases to be heard without that having happened, will it?

What possible reasons could there be for a delay?

A deal being done in order to let off the copper who stamped / kicked the bloke lying on the floor? If that is what is going on (a) it is wrong and (b) we should be told.

Concern that Muslims may riot in Oldham if they are charged? If that is the case, that is also totally wrong and means loss of control of the streets. Starmer knows how to deal with rioters and those who incite riots.

Inefficiencies in the CPS?

Insufficient evidence?

Mistaken identity?

VAR says no?

Sheer stupidity at the CPS?

 

[fernandopartridge]

This is a bit of a repeat of what Duffer posted. Not a reason for charges not to have been made though. It certainly won’t get into the queue for a criminal court for the cases to be heard without that having happened, will it?

What possible reasons could there be for a delay?

A deal being done in order to let off the copper who stamped / kicked the bloke lying on the floor? If that is what is going on (a) it is wrong and (b) we should be told.

Concern that Muslims may riot in Oldham if they are charged? If that is the case, that is also totally wrong and means loss of control of the streets. Starmer knows how to deal with rioters and those who incite riots.

Inefficiencies in the CPS?

Insufficient evidence?

Mistaken identity?

VAR says no?

Sheer stupidity at the CPS?

Given all of the coverage by idiots like Nigel Farage etc, there is probably now quite a risk of the persons involved not receiving a fair trial. Which I guess is probably Farage's intention - he started talking about making a private prosecution before any decision had even been made. He is a bad faith actor and you should be more intelligent than to fall for it.

 

[MalcSB]

One of Starme’s pledges:-

• putting the country on track for at least 95% clean power by 2030

What does that even mean? How do you measure being “put on track”

 

[PVA]

One of Starme’s pledges:-

• putting the country on track for at least 95% clean power by 2030

What does that even mean? How do you measure being “put on track”

The plan is to have clean power by 2030. But because this Parliament does not reach 2030, they cannot promise clean power by that deadline but they can put things in place to move towards it and measure the progress at the end of the Parliament.

 

[MalcSB]

The plan is to have clean power by 2030. But because this Parliament does not reach 2030, they cannot promise clean power by that deadline but they can put things in place to move towards it and measure the progress at the end of the Parliament.

Well, they could have promised to have clean power by 2030, just promise it by the end of this Parliament. Job done.

They promised to reduce energy bills by £300 as well, where has that gone?

 

[wingy]

Well, they could have promised to have clean power by 2030, just promise it by the end of this Parliament. Job done.

They promised to reduce energy bills by £300 as well, where has that gone?

They've got to increase it first, I mean where's the start point for it anyhow.
That's quite a set number,why not just a percentage,if it means not reliant on gas or another combustible.
Of course the reality is likely no saving at and the technology required will equal the cost of the other.

 

[MalcSB]

They've got to increase it first, I mean where's the start point for it anyhow.
That's quite a set number,why not just a percentage,if it means not reliant on gas or another combustible.
Of course the reality is likely no saving at and the technology required will equal the cost of the other.

Exactly, empty promises. It will be a matter of public record what the average energy bill was when they came in to office.

They could tell the electricity companies that they can no longer make a daily standing charge. The price per unit is set at the maximum cost (I.e. using gas) so they are making a huge profit on very unit produced by wind / solar. Alternatively tell them they can only charge based on median production cost, that’ll would be an incentive for them to get on with developing the supposedly cheaper energy sources.

It could be done if they really meant it and really want to do it.

 

[MalcSB]

No its not. And I imagine it’s doing no one any favours politically so why it’s dragging I have no idea.

On a few of these topics I agree with you on some parts, it’s the leap to “we’re run by a tyrannical government” instead of “sometimes bureaucracy makes things take ages” where you lose me. And I am deeply worried about the people pushing the latter very very hard with a lot of resources and their own or other countries best interests at heart.

I’d rather be ran by the worst democratically elected UK PM, than any American or Russian leader. The fact I have to make this argument in a country that voted Brexit under a “better to die on your feet than live on your knees” ethos is mind blowing to me.

You wish has been granted then

 

[MalcSB]

No its not. And I imagine it’s doing no one any favours politically so why it’s dragging I have no idea.

On a few of these topics I agree with you on some parts, it’s the leap to “we’re run by a tyrannical government” instead of “sometimes bureaucracy makes things take ages” where you lose me. And I am deeply worried about the people pushing the latter very very hard with a lot of resources and their own or other countries best interests at heart.

I’d rather be ran by the worst democratically elected UK PM, than any American or Russian leader. The fact I have to make this argument in a country that voted Brexit under a “better to die on your feet than live on your knees” ethos is mind blowing to me.

Given the sensitivity of this case, don’t you think that someone could / should have been tasked for half an hour to get this sorted.

It may not be tyrannical government, I think its more than sometimes bureaucracy takes ages.

 

[MalcSB]

Given all of the coverage by idiots like Nigel Farage etc, there is probably now quite a risk of the persons involved not receiving a fair trial. Which I guess is probably Farage's intention - he started talking about making a private prosecution before any decision had even been made. He is a bad faith actor and you should be more intelligent than to fall for it.

Blame the CPS, should have got their arse in gear.

The video itself probably makes the concept of a fair trial problematic. I don’t think there is any defence for assaulting police officers causing injury. Is there?

Why do you think I am falling for Farage acting in bad faith? You have no idea how intelligent, or otherwise, I am.

Quite independently to anything he may or may not be doing, I think a charging decision should have been made by now. That’s why Farage was talking about a private prosecution, it gets him some media coverage but he shouldn’t have been in a position to do so. CPS should have beaten him to it, simple as.

Why do I get the feeling most people on here are defending both the CPS and the assailants? Is it because they aren’t white?

 

[MalcSB]

The plan is to have clean power by 2030. But because this Parliament does not reach 2030, they cannot promise clean power by that deadline but they can put things in place to move towards it and measure the progress at the end of the Parliament.

So we boot him out if it’s only at, say 75% ?

 

[Ian1779]

The people that voted Labour on here are not necessarily socialists

There are also people on here that lean towards socialism and wouldn’t touch Labour with a barge pole now.

 

[shmmeee]

You wish has been granted then

Top even in the top three of the last five!

 

[shmmeee]

There are also people on here that lean towards socialism and wouldn’t touch Labour with a barge pole now.

Left wingers in split shocker.

 

[PVA]

So we boot him out if it’s only at, say 75% ?

Well that's what the general election is for.

Not petitions after 5 minutes. That's all gone very quiet by the way, I thought that was some great democratic movement?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I was sitting here mulling things over, and I have realised that a combination of 5 months Labour government and 5 months exposure to all the socialists on here has driven me further and further to the right. Well done chaps!

Nobody on here is a socialist Malcolm. Social democrats and some admirers of fascism for balance.

 

[Northants Sky Blue]

Well, I apparently mistakenly thought it and its supporters were socialist . You were saying the people on here who voted for Labour are not necessarily socialists, I am wondering what they are.

1983 called, they'd like their outdated stereotypes back

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Rise of 'sickfluencers' helping the jobless to maximise benefits

I went online and came across so-called 'sickfluencers', who help their millions of followers on YouTube and TikTok to maximise their benefits. Some charge £950 for a personal session.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I really hope all these benefit cheats can be found, prosecuted and jailed,

Meanwhile still waiting for billions in PPE and furlough payments companies and individuals claimed fraudulently to be returned and the perpetrators prosecuted.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I’m not justifying anything that the Tories did, or didn't, do.

Im sure people who voted Labour were expecting more than a “vague semblance of decency and competence”.

If you can find a pre election post of me supporting the Tories here then do let me know. I genuinely can’t remember one.
I don’t even think I have specifically supported the Tories since the election. Criticising Starmer et al isn’t supporting the Tories per se.

I voted Labour.

I only expected decency and competence. I wasn't a fan of the policy, which sounded like Tory policy.

But the Tories were shit and had to be got out and no-one else was going to beat the Tories. So the best I hoped for was decency and competence.

And that so far hasn't been delivered in spades. I'm basically at 'they have been more competent and less corrupt than the Tories", though that was an incredibly low bar.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

The point is valid in was that there was a lot made of Reeves experience as an economist and what a fantastic qualification that was to be chancellor. Whether that was purely gleaned from Linkedin or not, she would have made the entry. Perhaps writing a fiction is better than publishing plagiarisms. Both give some indication of the character and trustworthiness of the individual.

I don’t believe that train drivers deserved the levels of pay rise they got or the amount they are now paid, especially when you compare it with an NHS consultant, nurse - or a bus driver for that matter. Given their resistance to modernisation, I am amazed they aren’t still insisting on having a stoker in the cab with them.

Labour tried to make themselves out to be holier than other parties. The principle of being willing to accept freebies suggests that, in fact, they are not. Thin end of wedges and slippery slopes spring to mind - it is early days after all.

As I have said previously, it is a combination of this government and the attitudes of many on here which have made me simply “lose my shit”. Someone, I can’t remember who, responded to that specific post suggesting that this was a good example of why it isn’t a particularly great idea to absolutely vilify a certain group (in my case boomers) as you are likely to get a significant abreaction.

I do realise that I am being pretty unreasonable, but fuck it.

To be fair Reeves was an economist.

She did state she was an economist in some jobs where she wasn't (which was wrong) but she has actually been an economist in her career.

Unfortunately it's the same shite economics that you get from right-leaning institutions, and why we're just getting regurgitated Tory economic policy (and why we're going to be in the doldrums for the forseeable future)

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I was sitting here mulling things over, and I have realised that a combination of 5 months Labour government and 5 months exposure to all the socialists on here has driven me further and further to the right. Well done chaps!

No.

You were already there, you just hadn't realised.

Now you're looking for an excuse for it.

 

[MalcSB]

Well that's what the general election is for.

Not petitions after 5 minutes. That's all gone very quiet by the way, I thought that was some great democratic movement?

Not gone quiet at al, and of course you didn’t really think it was a great democratic movement.

2,962,989 signatories, to be “debated” by Parliament on 6 January 2025.

I do wonder whether today’s relaunch is in some way / partly a response to it - a recognition that things aren’t being seen as going particularly well.

I see the 1.5 million houses has been restated. I’m sure it’s only been a couple of weeks since it was said this was a two term target.

Just found this which wont fill anyone with confidence,

Government to miss 1.5m homes target by half a million homes without funding and policy intervention, industry bodies warn

New report by Savills, commissioned by NHF, warns that without significant government support, the UK will fall short of its 1.5 million new homes target by nearly 500,000 homes. The report highlights the need for social housebuilding and support for first-time buyers to meet housing demands.

www.housing.org.uk

 

[MalcSB]

Labour will miss its new homes pledge... says official leading the plan

Ministers promise the 'biggest growth in affordable housebuilding in a generation' by 2029. Homes England CEO says it could take a decade

inews.co.uk

 

[MalcSB]

Backbench MPs on both sides have expressed some pretty unfortunate views on a range of topics. Try not to judge the parties overall by either.

Just a fact to state that the origins of anti-Semitism lie in the far right. On the left it seems to be an idealistic effort to side with an 'underdog', more extreme types will go full circle to the far right.

Was there a far right in Shakespeare’s time? Anti-semitism has been around for centuries. There is a lot of anti-Zionism being expressed these days which is not the same as anti-semitism.

Is the movement from extreme left to extreme right going full circle or just completing a circle?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Was there a far right in Shakespeare’s time? Anti-semitism has been around for centuries. There is a lot of anti-Zionism being expressed these days which is not the same as anti-semitism.

Is the movement from extreme left to extreme right going full circle or just completing a circle?

At their extremes both become authoritarian and tricky to distinguish. I've thought for a long time that to be considered far left the threshold is much lower than it is to be considered far right, at least in this country.

The issue Britain has possibly always had is that it's got an economically 'left' but socially conservative population. Or in @shmmeee parlance, 'hang the paedos but fund the NHS'. This is why I think we saw big swathes of the country move from Labour to Johnson and then to Farage, but also why the Conservatives themselves have a problem arguing to cut spending and give tax cuts to the rich as after a while people figure out it hurts them.

So Farage seizing the 'I'll spend money on you and kick out the foreigners' is a strong message with a big chunk of people.