Do you want to discuss boring politics? (14 Viewers)

[PVA]

I assume you are aware that it's possible to be judged independently rather than against 'but look how crap they were'?

Calm down it was just a joke!

But yes of course they will be judged independently, doesn't mean we aren't allowed to make comparisons though.

 

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[Grendel]

Calm down it was just a joke!

But yes of course they will be judged independently, doesn't mean we aren't allowed to make comparisons though.

Sunak and Hunt were there for most of the last 4 years and look considerably better prospects than this moron

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Well we had 5 chancellors in the last parliament, so if she makes it anywhere near the end she'll have done pretty well in comparison!

True, although the only one that was sacked was Kwarteng and Javid resigned. The rest changed hands with the PM, who were the hunted species over the last 14 years.

The groundwork has been laid for the government to raise ‘working people’s’ tax (NI, income tax or VAT).

 

[rob9872]

True, although the only one that was sacked was Kwarteng and Javid resigned. The rest changed hands with the PM, who were the hunted species over the last 14 years.

The groundwork has been laid for the government to raise ‘working people’s’ tax (NI, income tax or VAT).

Tbh I wish they would increase Income Tax, do away with NI and call it one tax on all earnings so people earn more and pay more, without all the hidden taxes - lose vat, lose the level of taxation on fuel and it will immediately make society fairer.

Simple economics means that they need a pot of a certain size to pay for goods and services. That pot doesn't change so they collect in the path of least resistance, but we pay so many levels of taxation on our already taxed earnings. I'd be quite happy to increase my tax from 40% to 50% if it meant that I wasn't paying any other tax anywhere else on every time I invest or spend.

 

[mmttww]

Tbh I wish they would increase Income Tax, do away with NI and call it one tax on all earnings so people earn more and pay more, without all the hidden taxes - lose vat, lose the level of taxation on fuel and it will immediately make society fairer..

I've been waiting for someone to come along with this exact policy for most of my adult life. Have the Living Wage as the tax threshold before you pay anything. Sorted.

 

[fernandopartridge]

[/QUOTE]

Quick point on the credit card spending: this is a method of payment. We have no information on what is being paid for on these cards, and I strongly believe they’re being used as a means of earning cashback on purchases which in turn will stretch departmental budgets further.

They're used to increase the efficiency of buying something. Mucca bangs on about productivity but all removing pcards does is increase the processing costs for both sides in a purchase.

 

[Grendel]

No Austerity here

250,000 more people, including 50,000 more children, will be pushed into relative poverty by benefit cuts, DWP says​

The Department for Work and Pensions’ impact assessment of the health and disability benefit cuts also says that will put an extra 250,000 people, including 50,000 children, into relative poverty.

The potential impact of these reforms on poverty projections has been estimated using a static microsimulation model. Using this model, we estimate there will be an additional 250,000 people (including 50,000 children) in relative poverty after housing costs in 2029/30 as a result of modelled changes to social security, compared to the baseline projections.

Relative poverty is defined as having a household income below 60% of the median.

 

[rob9872]

No Austerity here

250,000 more people, including 50,000 more children, will be pushed into relative poverty by benefit cuts, DWP says​

The Department for Work and Pensions’ impact assessment of the health and disability benefit cuts also says that will put an extra 250,000 people, including 50,000 children, into relative poverty.


Relative poverty is defined as having a household income below 60% of the median.

How is that possible?

Tbf I've not done it since school, but the median is the middle value and therefore if it's 60% below it's not the median and whatever the median figure is good or bad you would always expect 50% below and 50% above. Confused

 

[rob9872]

How is that possible?

Tbf I've not done it since school, but the median is the middle value and therefore if it's 60% below it's not the median and whatever the median figure is good or bad you would always expect 50% below and 50% above. Confused

Ignore me. Sorry I assume if the median is 30k you mean 60% of 30k (eg 18k) and household incomes below that. Sorry having a thick day!

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

They're used to increase the efficiency of buying something. Mucca bangs on about productivity but all removing pcards does is increase the processing costs for both sides in a purchase.

Productivity in this country is a huge problem, for both the private and public sector. The public sector, as a whole, is getting more money but delivering less. In the long term, this means taxes and spending will grow exponentially until something gives and it won’t be pretty.

If you find that acceptable, cool. I don’t think it is.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Productivity in this country is a huge problem, for both the private and public sector. The public sector, as a whole, is getting more money but delivering less. In the long term, this means taxes and spending will grow exponentially until something gives and it won’t be pretty.

If you find that acceptable, cool. I don’t think it is.

What public sector productivity information are you using? There are many health warnings with the ONS data (which you'll ignore as it doesn't fit your paradigm). For example, it doesn't even consider outcomes .

As I've pointed out on this thread a trillion times, tax does not pay for spending. It does not need to grow to pay for government spending as such.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Having had a review of the PIP announcements, it looks like we stand to lose the £3500 a year Mrs BSB currently gets.

Cheers Labour, thank you very much.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Having had a review of the PIP announcements, it looks like we stand to lose the £3500 a year Mrs BSB currently gets.

Cheers Labour, thank you very much.

Sorry mate. Shame on all the shy Tories on this thread that voted for them. I did say this is what would happen.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Sorry mate. Shame on all the shy Tories on this thread that voted for them. I did say this is what would happen.

Coinciding with her going on maternity leave later this year this could really hit us hard to the point where I think we’ll have trouble with the mortgage.

Safe to say we are not voting Labour again.

 

[fernandopartridge]

PVA stick to dreaming about being a soldier

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I've been waiting for someone to come along with this exact policy for most of my adult life. Have the Living Wage as the tax threshold before you pay anything. Sorted.

I think the tax threshold should be set at the average cost of mortgage/rent+energy/utilities+food. These should be the basics needed to survive and so you shouldn't pay income tax if you can't afford these, especially in a system whereby you will be paying some level of VAT on those necessities.

I also think the bands should be set at 50th, 90th and 99th percentile so it reflects the income level against average and the higher levels of tax should be some form of multiplier based on the income gap between average and higher bands. So higher income inequality = higher bands paying a higher percentage of tax. Less income inequality their tax band comes down. Stops the thing becoming a political football.

Also corporation tax needs fixing. How come businesses get to take their costs into account and base their tax on profit, which doesn't even exist? People can't just spend their money and then pay their tax after that, so why should businesses? And why are businesses allowed to carry forward or back losses? We can't do that, or carry our PA forward/back should we not work for a year. Needs to be consistent (though I expect they'd end up allowing people to take their costs into account rather than charging businesses 1 or 2% on income.

 

[Grendel]

I think the tax threshold should be set at the average cost of mortgage/rent+energy/utilities+food. These should be the basics needed to survive and so you shouldn't pay income tax if you can't afford these, especially in a system whereby you will be paying some level of VAT on those necessities.

I also think the bands should be set at 50th, 90th and 99th percentile so it reflects the income level against average and the higher levels of tax should be some form of multiplier based on the income gap between average and higher bands. So higher income inequality = higher bands paying a higher percentage of tax. Less income inequality their tax band comes down. Stops the thing becoming a political football.

Also corporation tax needs fixing. How come businesses get to take their costs into account and base their tax on profit, which doesn't even exist? People can't just spend their money and then pay their tax after that, so why should businesses? And why are businesses allowed to carry forward or back losses? We can't do that, or carry our PA forward/back should we not work for a year. Needs to be consistent (though I expect they'd end up allowing people to take their costs into account rather than charging businesses 1 or 2% on income.

You really are bonkers.

There wouldn’t be any small or medium businesses if you taxed on that basis

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Productivity in this country is a huge problem, for both the private and public sector. The public sector, as a whole, is getting more money but delivering less. In the long term, this means taxes and spending will grow exponentially until something gives and it won’t be pretty.

If you find that acceptable, cool. I don’t think it is.

If only there were measurable things to try and work out why this might be.

Like levels of absenteeism due to illness or mental health, and then mark these against, I don't know, cuts to mental health services or real term cuts in health spending. And then how that snowballs as those left are made to make up the difference leading to further absenteeism etc etc.

Or how happy and satisfied people are in their work and how valued they feel. Cos shock horror if people who don't enjoy their work or feel valued or being paid a fair amount aren't productive.

People aren't machines to be worked to breaking point for business efficiency.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

You really are bonkers.

There wouldn’t be any small or medium businesses if you taxed on that basis

Why? They could have the equivalent of a PA so no tax paid on say first £100k of revenue and even after that you only need to increase prices by 1 or 2% to allow for the tax.

Plus costs for both the business and authorities go down because it's far more simplified and you don't need to have a mass of auditors checking over the fine small print to make sure they've correctly allocated expenses as being deductible or non-deductible.

 

[Grendel]

Having had a review of the PIP announcements, it looks like we stand to lose the £3500 a year Mrs BSB currently gets.

Cheers Labour, thank you very much.

Some Labour treasury guy was on 5 live earlier.

It’s just odd to hear - effectively young people will only recover from mental health issues by working, it’s cruel to prevent people working by offering cosy benefits.

I’ve fell asleep for 40 years and just had a dream. I’ve just turned 20 and thatcher and tebbit are dishing out tough love everywhere

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Some Labour treasury guy was on 5 live earlier.

It’s just odd to hear - effectively young people will only recover from mental health issues by working, it’s cruel to prevent people working by offering cosy benefits.

I’ve fell asleep for 40 years and just had a dream. I’ve just turned 20 and thatcher and tebbit are dishing out tough love everywhere

Bizarrely it’s creating a situation where we might be better off voting Tory

 

[Grendel]

Why? They could have the equivalent of a PA so no tax paid on say first £100k of revenue and even after that you only need to increase prices by 1 or 2% to allow for the tax.

Plus costs for both the business and authorities go down because it's far more simplified and you don't need to have a mass of auditors checking over the fine small print to make sure they've correctly allocated expenses as being deductible or non-deductible.

You do realise profit, or effectively cash is retained in most SME’s to actually reinvest in their business? It’s mind blowingly stupid for that to be handed to the taxman.

You will be telling me you are against capital allowances soon as well

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Bizarrely it’s creating a situation where we might be better off voting Tory

Don't bet on it though. Do you really think the Tories will undo public sector cuts made by Labour? If anything they'll get ramp it up even more, cos they'll be listen to the lunatic right for fear of people voting Farage.

At the moment it seems the Tories are taking the Labour pre-election path - say nothing and just let the government destroy itself.

 

[Grendel]

Bizarrely it’s creating a situation where we might be better off voting Tory

Unfortunately this is the worst of both worlds. A policy of bashing business and squashing growth to create jobs while at the same time removing benefits to get people into jobs that don’t exist

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Don't bet on it though. Do you really think the Tories will undo public sector cuts made by Labour? If anything they'll get ramp it up even more, cos they'll be listen to the lunatic right for fear of people voting Farage.

At the moment it seems the Tories are taking the Labour pre-election path - say nothing and just let the government destroy itself.

Labour are busy knifing the civil service in the back as we speak. I’ll have to hope that science roles in it aren’t culled otherwise that kind of scuppers my career plans.

Unfortunately this is the worst of both worlds. A policy of bashing business and squashing growth to create jobs while at the same time removing benefits to get people into jobs that don’t exist

What’s the odds on them raising VAT next?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

You do realise profit, or effectively cash is retained in most SME’s to actually reinvest in their business? It’s mind blowingly stupid for that to be handed to the taxman.

You will be telling me you are against capital allowances soon as well

Profit and cash are completely different. And they can still use their mark-up to do that reinvesting. If they're good enough then they'll make enough sales or a large enough mark-up to do so. If they don't, then maybe that businesses isn't worthy of further investment. And as I said I'd had a tax free amount so small businesses would pay nothing, or next to nothing, anyway.

Considering what I've seen be allowed to be deductible against tax, there is a hell of a lot that isn't being 'reinvested in the business'.

And if anything it makes it easier to plan for the tax bill because you'll know what sales you've made and can set aside for it. Rather than having to wait until the end of the year to see what arbitrary profit figure comes out that you then need to pay a chunk of.

 

[Grendel]

Profit and cash are completely different. And they can still use their mark-up to do that reinvesting. If they're good enough then they'll make enough sales or a large enough mark-up to do so. If they don't, then maybe that businesses isn't worthy of further investment. And as I said I'd had a tax free amount so small businesses would pay nothing, or next to nothing, anyway.

Considering what I've seen be allowed to be deductible against tax, there is a hell of a lot that isn't being 'reinvested in the business'.

And if anything it makes it easier to plan for the tax bill because you'll know what sales you've made and can set aside for it. Rather than having to wait until the end of the year to see what arbitrary profit figure comes out that you then need to pay a chunk of.

I don’t know sometimes if you make these posts just to create an argument

You can’t be serious surely.

No one waits till the end of the year to see what arbitrary figure comes out anyway

 

[PVA]

PVA stick to dreaming about being a soldier

Thought you were retiring from this thread?

Maybe you should stick to dreaming about terrorist sympathisers

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

What public sector productivity information are you using? There are many health warnings with the ONS data (which you'll ignore as it doesn't fit your paradigm). For example, it doesn't even consider outcomes .

As I've pointed out on this thread a trillion times, tax does not pay for spending. It does not need to grow to pay for government spending as such.

‘As such’ is the key admission here because you know full well that the government needs debt issuance and tax receipts to credit the mechanism it uses to create money i.e. the Consolidation Fund. In theory, it could just create debt out of nowhere and make no attempt to balance it out. In practice, if it did that, you’d end up with a worthless currency like Zimbabwe. You’re well aware of these limitations as discussed previously.

It took Labour 6 months to realise they need to make efficiencies in public spending. If anyone is guilty of bending the reality to fit their paradigm, it’s you. Respectfully.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Unfortunately this is the worst of both worlds. A policy of bashing business and squashing growth to create jobs while at the same time removing benefits to get people into jobs that don’t exist

Exactly, the welfare state does need reforming but if your policies have caused businesses to rethink hiring new staff, it’s laughably incompetent.

Ironically, it was Reform proposed increasing employer’s NI for foreign workers and this was rightly derided as a bonkers and an economically illiterate policy… So Labour went and did it for all workers!

There was no real vision for this Labour government and we’re paying for it now.

 

[Grendel]

Lee you don’t understand. This government respects your desire to work and become self sufficient. Be grateful and welcome to a world of opportunity.

‘I could end up homeless’: weighing the damage after Rachel Reeves’ welfare cuts

A disabled man considers the potential impact that losing disability benefits could have on his life

www.theguardian.com

 

[fernandopartridge]

Thought you were retiring from this thread?

Maybe you should stick to dreaming about terrorist sympathisers

Better than voting for an active contributor to a genocide

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Lee you don’t understand. This government respects your desire to work and become self sufficient. Be grateful and welcome to a world of opportunity.

‘I could end up homeless’: weighing the damage after Rachel Reeves’ welfare cuts

A disabled man considers the potential impact that losing disability benefits could have on his life

www.theguardian.com

Reading his case I think he would score pretty high on the ‘points’ system so shouldn’t be impacted?

 

[PVA]

Better than voting for an active contributor to a genocide

Bit ironic given your desire to give Putin what he wants.

 

[Grendel]

Bit ironic given your desire to give Putin what he wants.

How are the Labour government performing so far do you think?