Don't blame Robins (1 Viewer)

[Grendel]

You two seem to take-over, & bicker on every thread one or the other posts on - did you notice that? Lol

Only because Don for some reason even refuses to accept what people say who he even supports.

Lets compare rents and beverage sales.

Average in the Championship let alone League One is £220,000. These clubs get all sales from food and drink.

We pay £400,000 and get limited access to these revenue streams.

Don says this is great news - I say it is spin, deception and uncompetitive.

 

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[SkyblueBazza]

Only because Don for some reason even refuses to accept what people say who he even supports.

Lets compare rents and beverage sales.

Average in the Championship let alone League One is £220,000. These clubs get all sales from food and drink.

We pay £400,000 and get limited access to these revenue streams.

Don says this is great news - I say it is spin, deception and uncompetitive.

I say "BAD BOY! Naughty boy! In your bed!!!" ;-)

 

[dongonzalos]

You two seem to take-over, & bicker on every thread one or the other posts on - did you notice that? Lol

Agree may take the mungo approach.

I love Grendel really

He takes the wrong view and tries to make it work.

He is a shock jock really like John Gaunt or Adrian Durham

 

[dongonzalos]

Oh dear you really really are a politicians dream. So at last you admit its £400,000 even though you started a thread saying the rent was £150,000.

So - average rent in this league is £170,000 and average in the Championship is £220,000. These ALL get 100% from the revenue streams.

We pay £400,000 and then get limited access to these revenue streams.

We are miles adrift.

Why can't you understand that?

Ignored question wonder why?

Does the rebate exist Grendel or as usual are you conveniently forgetting that?

 

[Grendel]

Agree may take the mungo approach.

I live Grendel really

He takes the wrong view and tried to make it work.

He is a shock jock

Thanks the pennies dropped and you now realise you have been sucked in by ACL spin. Never mind it happens to us all.

Fact: Rent is £400,000
Fact: Average is £170,000
Fact: Every other club recieves 100% from revenue streams
Fact: We get a portion

Before like MMM when I defeated him you start giving types of sausages as an answer to me what in all of these statements is wrong?

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Agree may take the mungo approach.

I love Grendel really

He takes the wrong view and tried to make it work.

He is a shock jock

I know...you are two for a pair really. Both deeply passionate about CCFC like most (I would hope) on here. You both become very entrenched in your arguments too. But generally respectful which good.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Thanks the pennies dropped and you now realise you have been sucked in by ACL spin. Never mind it happens to us all.

Fact: Rent is £400,000
Fact: Average is £170,000
Fact: Every other club recieves 100% from revenue streams
Fact: We get a portion

Before like MMM when I defeated him you start giving types of sausages as an answer to me what in all of these statements is wrong?

...on no! Not the bloody sausages again?

 

[Grendel]

Ignored question wonder why?

Does the rebate exist Grendel or as usual are you conveniently forgetting that?

No there is no rent rebate it is £400,000 a year

 

[dongonzalos]

...on no! Not the bloody sausages again?

I have to say that made me laugh so much...

 

[dongonzalos]

No there is no rent rebate it is £400,000 a year

Are you serious?

Genuinely now as I have not seen the forum much at all today and are playing catch up.

I am under the impression there is a 150 k rebate?

 

[dongonzalos]

I know...you are two for a pair really. Both deeply passionate about CCFC like most (I would hope) on here. You both become very entrenched in your arguments too. But generally respectful which good.

I agree.
However I do have sneaky feeling sometimes Grendel chooses the indefensible to defend just for a challenge.

I am not 100% certain he believes it , but just enjoys the debate.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

I agree.
However I do have sneaky feeling sometimes Grendel chooses the indefensible to defend just for a challenge.

I am not 100% certain he believes it , but just enjoys the debate.

I concur...it's hard not to play devil's advocate sometimes though, so I am just as bad.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

The deal is we pay 400k in rent. With the revenue streams we pay 150k is nonsense, we'll pay 400k in rent but reap part of the benefits our fans by buying food & drink etc. no matter what, we're still paying 400k. It looks attractive, but I bet ACL want the 1.3m back dated as well as a share in the match sales of 'x, y and z', I'd imagine the ideal agreement is close, but more concessions are needed IMO.

 

[Grendel]

The deal is we pay 400k in rent. With the revenue streams we pay 150k is nonsense, we'll pay 400k in rent but reap part of the benefits our fans by buying food & drink etc. no matter what, we're still paying 400k. It looks attractive, but I bet ACL want the 1.3m back dated as well as a share in the match sales of 'x, y and z', I'd imagine the ideal agreement is close, but more concessions are needed IMO.

All correct, not rocket science but seemingly beyond a lot of people on here -- deliberately so I suspect

 

[dongonzalos]

The deal is we pay 400k in rent. With the revenue streams we pay 150k is nonsense, we'll pay 400k in rent but reap part of the benefits our fans by buying food & drink etc. no matter what, we're still paying 400k. It looks attractive, but I bet ACL want the 1.3m back dated as well as a share in the match sales of 'x, y and z', I'd imagine the ideal agreement is close, but more concessions are needed IMO.

So why has Ashby Jan just personally spoke to a ACL director and said the following

Just to clear up all the nonsense that is being spouted about rent etc the highlights of the deal being offered are rent is £400 K including match day costs, then club would receive the ACL profits from match day catering, around £100k and a rate rebate of £150 k and this is how the total of £150,000 per season has been arrived at.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

All correct, not rocket science but seemingly beyond a lot of people on here -- deliberately so I suspect

It does look like an attractive deal I do say, if ACL now say, ok, 400k backdated to when we stopped paying and we got 100% of 'x, y and z match day revenue', it would be difficult to turn down, but I'd hold out for 300k.

I'm not on board with the renegade tactics, there is probably a better way to go about it (but then again, I, or the next man, don't know what we're dealing with) but if we get a favourable rent agreement, it will be a vindication of the renegade tactics and worth all the fuss and I'd say it was shrewd business on SISU's behalf.

I don't want to be a brag or anything, but I do recall an uproar over rejecting a 50% reduction, and I did say, they'll come back and lower their offers, which they have done.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

So why has Ashby Jan just personally spoke to a SISU director and said the following

Just to clear up all the nonsense that is being spouted about rent etc the highlights of the deal being offered are rent is £400 K including match day costs, then club would receive the ACL profits from match day catering, around £100k and a rate rebate of £150 k and this is how the total of £150,000 per season has been arrived at.

You're missing the point, we're still paying 400k rent. Most clubs have 100% of this revenue streams, if we factored that into the 'average rents', the average rent would be below 100k!

EDIT: if, by your standards, the deal is 150k because we get a cut in revenue streams, would that mean, whilst we haven't been getting this cut, we've actually been paying in excess of 1.5-1.75m a year? Especially bearing in mind, we had average crowds of 24k in our 1st season, 20k after that, late teens, etc.

 

[dongonzalos]

You're missing the point, we're still paying 400k rent. Most clubs have 100% of this revenue streams, if we factored that into the 'average rents', the average rent would be below 100k!

Whatever do you understand the rate rebate if 150k to mean?
Genuinely am I missing the point I understand a rebate to be a rebate. Like a tax rebate. Which to me leaves 250 a month.
Then I understand for it to come down to 150k is the further 100k from catering. SISU were allowed acces to the books to confirm this figure.

Is this not correct?

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Whatever do you understand the rate rebate if 150k to mean?
Genuinely am I missing the point I understand a rebate to be a rebate. Like a tax rebate. Which to me leaves 250 a month.
Then I understand for it to come down to 150k is the further 100k from catering. SISU were allowed acces to the books to confirm this figure.

Is this not correct?

Why would we get a rebate? What would be the point of one, why haven't they just factored in the rebate in the final price?

 

[dongonzalos]

Like I said before SBT I totally disagree with the tactic as I feel it takes us a step further away from having any chance if stadium ownership. Also it is dishonourable and unprofessional.
Also I feel we are always in the press misrepresented as a club in the verge if collapse I feel that leaves us constantly under the watchful eye of the vultures.
If this deal had been agreed the other day. I would have said to you financially for CCFC you may have been right.
However relationship wise with council I am not so sure.
However it wasn't agreed it seems strongly possible that it also played a role in Robins going.
So I am not sure how you feel if it was a guaranteed 250k ( less than the 300 you say) plus another 100 k on catering

Was it worth turning that down. We are getting crap press again and Robins has gone.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Whatever do you understand the rate rebate if 150k to mean?
Genuinely am I missing the point I understand a rebate to be a rebate. Like a tax rebate. Which to me leaves 250 a month.
Then I understand for it to come down to 150k is the further 100k from catering. SISU were allowed acces to the books to confirm this figure.

Is this not correct?

If, by your standards, the deal is 150k because we get a cut in revenue streams, would that mean, whilst we haven't been getting this cut, we've actually been paying in excess of 1.5-1.75m a year? Especially bearing in mind, we had average crowds of 24k in our 1st season, 20k after that, late teens, etc.

I understand you would not have seen this in my previous post, because it was an edit, I'd like an answer to this please.

 

[dongonzalos]

Why would we get a rebate? What would be the point of one, why haven't they just factored in the rebate in the final price?

Maybe it is the way that they have to do it to be able to offer the deal (financial implications)


Originally Posted by dongonzalos:
This from Ashby Jan after speaking to ACL directly:-

Just to clear up all the nonsense that is being spouted about rent etc the highlights of the deal being offered are rent is £400 K including match day costs, then club would receive the ACL profits from match day catering, around £100k and a rate rebate of £150 k and this is how the total of £150,000 per season has been arrived at.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Like I said before SBT I totally disagree with the tactic as I feel it takes us a step further away from having any chance if stadium ownership. Also it is dishonourable and unprofessional.
Also I feel we are always in the press misrepresented as a club in the verge if collapse I feel that leaves us constantly under the watchful eye of the vultures.
If this deal had been agreed the other day. I would have said to you financially for CCFC you may have been right.
However relationship wise with council I am not so sure.
However it wasn't agreed it seems strongly possible that it also played a role in Robins going.
So I am not sure how you feel if it was a guaranteed 250k ( less than the 300 you say) plus another 100 k on catering

Was it worth turning that down. We are getting crap press again and Robins has gone.

Without being disrespectful, I don't think any of this really matters tbh, especially if we get a favourable agreement. Isn't exactly going to live long in the memory when it's concluded.

 

[dongonzalos]

Maybe it is a way that they to do it to be able to offer the deal


Originally Posted by dongonzalos:
This from Ashby Jan after speaking to ACL directly:-

Just to clear up all the nonsense that is being spouted about rent etc the highlights of the deal being offered are rent is £400 K including match day costs, then club would receive the ACL profits from match day catering, around £100k and a rate rebate of £150 k and this is how the total of £150,000 per season has been arrived at.

So take out the 100k catering, as in forget it.

You are left with 250k
You said about 300k would be worth settling on?

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Maybe it is a way that they to do it to be able to offer the deal


Originally Posted by dongonzalos:
This from Ashby Jan after speaking to ACL directly:-

Just to clear up all the nonsense that is being spouted about rent etc the highlights of the deal being offered are rent is £400 K including match day costs, then club would receive the ACL profits from match day catering, around £100k and a rate rebate of £150 k and this is how the total of £150,000 per season has been arrived at.

I'm sceptical of this 'rebate' because I don't see why they just wouldn't just knock it off the final price, again, I don't know the nitty gritty details, same with all of us really except the negotiating parties.

 

[dongonzalos]

I'm sceptical of this 'rebate' because I don't see why they just wouldn't just knock it off the final price, again, I don't know the nitty gritty details, same with all of us really except the negotiating parties.

If it is true?

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

So take out the 100k catering

You are left with 250k
You said about 300k would be worth settling on?

Backdated to when we stopped paying and 100% of match day revenue, then that would be reasonable, but ACL remain rock solid on the former and I'm not to sure on the latter.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

If it is true?

No, it might be moveable, or changes time to time. I think ACL might be pulling a sly one with this 'rebate'.

 

[dongonzalos]

250 is less than the 300 you would hold out for.
They are getting 100 k of the catering.
What is the rest worth?
Again if it was a factor in Robins going which he seemed to suggest. Was it worth reneging for.
Also on the balance if probabilities Tim did shake on this deal. Then pulled out and made a ludicrous comment about building a 30k stadium. Quite embarrassing really.

 

[dongonzalos]

No, it might be moveable, or changes time to time. I think ACL might be pulling a sly one with this 'rebate'.

For them to say the rent offer includes it I agree it would need to be fixed.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

250 is less than the 300 you would hold out for.
They are getting 100 k of the catering.
What is the rest worth?
Again if it was a factor in Robins going which he seemed to suggest. Was it worth reneging for.
Also on the balance if probabilities Tim did shake on this deal. Then pulled out and made a ludicrous comment about building a 30k stadium. Quite embarrassing really.

It's ok to change your mind before you sign a contract, so if he did shake on it, it doesn't mean much really, as he wasn't 'contractually obliged', I've heard that phrase a lot from a few people.

The deal, IMO, has to be backdated from when we stopped paying and we get 100% revenues on match day, if I were negotiating, I would not compromise on those 2, fundamental classes, problem is, ACL don't want to compromise on that either! We get nothing from the concerts, they shouldn't get a penny of what CCFC fans pay at CCFC games!

could you answer this please? If, by your standards, the deal is 150k because we get a cut in revenue streams etc., would that mean, whilst we haven't been getting this cut, we've actually been paying in excess of 1.5-1.75m a year? Especially bearing in mind, we had average crowds of 24k in our 1st season, 20k after that, late teens, etc.

 

[dongonzalos]

It's ok to change your mind before you sign a contract, so if he did shake on it, it doesn't mean much really, as he wasn't 'contractually obliged', I've heard that phrase a lot from a few people.

The deal, IMO, has to be backdated from when we stopped paying and we get 100% revenues on match day, if I were negotiating, I would not compromise on those 2, fundamental classes, problem is, ACL don't want to compromise on that either! We get nothing from the concerts, they shouldn't get a penny of what CCFC fans pay at CCFC games!

could you answer this please? If, by your standards, the deal is 150k because we get a cut in revenue streams etc., would that mean, whilst we haven't been getting this cut, we've actually been paying in excess of 1.5-1.75m a year? Especially bearing in mind, we had average crowds of 24k in our 1st season, 20k after that, late teens, etc.

Sorry SBT, you keep asking that last bit.

I thought I answered you by saying even if you forget about the revenue from the catering that is on offer the rent is 250 a year. Which is 50k less than what you are saying is a good deal that you would hold out for.

Paying the back dated owed rent.

You want it right back to the date SISU stopped paying that sounds fair. Does that include the 300k plus they are knocking off the debt to round it down to 1 million.

Or are you still happy for ACL to write that off?

 

[dongonzalos]

Oh and the Mark Robins bit I keep asking.
Was it worth turning down this offer if it has been a contributory factor to Robins going?

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Sorry SBT, you keep asking that last bit.

I thought I answered you by saying even if you forget about the revenue from the catering that is on offer the rent is 250 a year. Which is 50k less than what you are saying is a good deal that you would hold out for.

Paying the back dated owed rent.

You want it right back to the date SISU stopped paying that sounds fair. Does that include the 300k plus they are knocking off the debt to round it down to 1 million.

Or are you still happy for ACL to write that off?

300k backdated, ACL should write the other 1m off, and CCFC get 100% of revenue streams. If that was put on the table, and it was rejected, my stance would become untenable. If they get cheaper than that, then fair fucking play!

I think it's time for ACL to no longer rely on CCFC, and CCFC to able to start standing on its own 2 feet.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Oh and the Mark Robins bit I keep asking.
Was it worth turning down this offer if it has been a contributory factor to Robins going?

No, I don't think so.

He knew what he was getting into, he seen an opportunity, with more money on the table, championship status, and I feel he may have started to panic because we haven't had a great 2013 and have had to change his system to accommodate Clarke.

Now it's your turn, you didn't answer my question.