Nick
Administrator
Test book? Ironic you call everybody thick.
I did and it is you being weird and pulling my name out into a conversation I have nothing currently to do with. it's test book you being a weird c**t again.
Understand?
I'm not part of the culture war and my friendship groups have a wide range of views. I also don't blame the left for the issues around immigration as a Conservative government was put in place along with the Brexit vote to deal with that and they've utterly failed. So it seems anyone with concerns around it has literally no one to vote for.
I'd say the noises from the left (your side of the culture war?) seem to write off anyone with concerns as far right as its easier than facing reality. I personally think you'd have to be a moron to think these concerns only exist within the far right now, unless you're prepared to write off huge amounts of traditional labour voters as far right, which would be weird.
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What does that mean? “Unsustainable”? What is going to happen at what point?
My genuine concern is that if one of the two major parties can’t get a grip and at least put a proper plan in place, then we’re on for Farage mk 2 or worse like a lot of the rest of Europe. Unsustainable is a tricky one to answer but pressure will continue on public services and housing (if I hear one more time this is purely down to austerity I’m likely to put my head through the wall - increasing and ageing population are huge factors as is the general health of the nation in terms of nhs)
Im just a numbers/logic man and the numbers don’t stack up. I’m sure I could dig up plenty of figures but here’s one…between 1970 and 1995 the population increased by 2.3m. Between 1995 and 2020 it increased by 8.1m. I don’t need to look at house building stats to know they haven’t kept up…but I do know one of the main reasons young people don’t have kids is lack of property security/inability to buy a home which in turn impacts birth rates. I also know that with since the financial crash and pandemic and chuck in a bit of Brexit (for Tony) the economy and productivity have not kept up either
I don’t know the answer and it might sound harsh but things like dependents of those studying here having automatic visa rights should never been allowed and I can’t believe it’s only now being addressed. The actual student numbers themselves don’t quite add up for me either…how/why have they suddenly doubled/trebled and where have the extra available places come from ?!. The humanitarian routes will be what they’ll be and we should always do our bit. We can’t keep just importing 100s thousands of workers per annum long term though, not with the number of economically inactive (2m of which want to work - there must be ways to help them).
Saying all that I do think numbers might settle down a bit compared to 2022/2023 over the next year or two….obviously dependent on wars etc. let’s hope so anyway
Do countries earn money when taking in immigrants?
My genuine concern is that if one of the two major parties can’t get a grip and at least put a proper plan in place, then we’re on for Farage mk 2 or worse like a lot of the rest of Europe. Unsustainable is a tricky one to answer but pressure will continue on public services and housing (if I hear one more time this is purely down to austerity I’m likely to put my head through the wall - increasing and ageing population are huge factors as is the general health of the nation in terms of nhs)
Im just a numbers/logic man and the numbers don’t stack up. I’m sure I could dig up plenty of figures but here’s one…between 1970 and 1995 the population increased by 2.3m. Between 1995 and 2020 it increased by 8.1m. I don’t need to look at house building stats to know they haven’t kept up…but I do know one of the main reasons young people don’t have kids is lack of property security/inability to buy a home which in turn impacts birth rates. I also know that with since the financial crash and pandemic and chuck in a bit of Brexit (for Tony) the economy and productivity have not kept up either
I don’t know the answer and it might sound harsh but things like dependents of those studying here having automatic visa rights should never been allowed and I can’t believe it’s only now being addressed. The actual student numbers themselves don’t quite add up for me either…how/why have they suddenly doubled/trebled and where have the extra available places come from ?!. The humanitarian routes will be what they’ll be and we should always do our bit. We can’t keep just importing 100s thousands of workers per annum long term though, not with the number of economically inactive (2m of which want to work - there must be ways to help them).
Saying all that I do think numbers might settle down a bit compared to 2022/2023 over the next year or two….obviously dependent on wars etc. let’s hope so anyway
I don't believe for a second the left really want to do anything about it tbh and I don't think the Tories are competent enough. I'm really not sure I agree with Shmmeee that there's no answer either but within the collective minds of our politicians there probably isn't. I think a lot of people are going to end up politically homeless. Does that mean the rise of a 'far right' party? I hope not and don't think so as we're not really like that as a country... its Tory, Labour, or nothing for most.A lot to agree with in that post, but let's be honest, a lot of people thought brexit and the tories would sort these issues out.
Not only did they not do that, but immigration is through the roof and they trashed the economy for the majority of the population as well, (though their spiv mates have done very well out of the last 13 years).
Some of us saw the writing onthe wall a long time ago so why youre correct to say that having these concerns doesn't make you far right and not everyone should be dismissed as such maybe some people should not be so dismissive of 'the lefties we saw what was coming and maybe just might be worth listening to.
I wish people would admit that their issue is culture. Let’s all be honest here. No one has issues with Aussies or Yanks or even Germans coming over here. It’s not about services, it’s not about housing, it’s not about crime, it’s about cultures not mixing well and bringing practices we don’t like or think we’ve left behind as a society. We got the EE chavs and a load of low skill men from Africa and the ME/Asia.
Maybe then we’d focus on how best to build community rather than side issues
I don't believe for a second the left really want to do anything about it tbh and I don't think the Tories are competent enough. I'm really not sure I agree with Shmmeee that there's no answer either but within the collective minds of our politicians there probably isn't. I think a lot of people are going to end up politically homeless. Does that mean the rise of a 'far right' party? I hope not and don't think so as we're not really like that as a country... its Tory, Labour, or nothing for most.
PS. I'm also aware many on the left feel politically homeless with blows with the wind Starmer leading the Labour Party. The next election will be decided by people holding their noses at the polling station I think. Inspiring stuff.
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I mean in terms of a one off payment. Are countries paid to take immigrants?Yes. They pay taxes, use services less than natives, and often arrive after education and leave before retirement making them cheaper at each end too.
I wish people would admit that their issue is culture. Let’s all be honest here. No one has issues with Aussies or Yanks or even Germans coming over here. It’s not about services, it’s not about housing, it’s not about crime, it’s about cultures not mixing well and bringing practices we don’t like or think we’ve left behind as a society. We got the EE chavs and a load of low skill men from Africa and the ME/Asia.
Maybe then we’d focus on how best to build community rather than side issues
I mean in terms of a one off payment. Are countries paid to take immigrants?
Also, how do the immigrants that don't work or contribute to society pay taxes? I doubt many pay council tax without assistance from some sort of financial aid through a government.
The numbers will absolutely settle down. And Starmer is going to crow about how he did what the Tories couldn’t. And it’s all their own fault for not being honest about immigration and its drivers.
Students pay for our education services and generally leave or become economically productive. Frankly I want more of the best choosing here rather than the states and staying on ideally.
But all these ideas are fiddling around the edges. You claim housing is to blame for birth rate and I agree to an extent (I’d have a bigger family if I had more room) but it’s a phenomenon across western nations because that’s what happens when you’re rich. There’s a reason African birth rates are so high. It’s a wall against poverty.
The fact is when people are richer they care less about having a big family. And we’ve seen this across time and cultures again and again. It’s a pretty solid iron law.
But again the earliest any baby boomer strategy could pay off is 18 years+, probably more like 30-50. What do you do in the mean time?
I won’t get into public services. We won’t agree. But you’re still failing to address the point which is that even if we want to reduce immigration, and we have for 13 years, we literally can’t.
I don't believe for a second the left really want to do anything about it tbh and I don't think the Tories are competent enough. I'm really not sure I agree with Shmmeee that there's no answer either but within the collective minds of our politicians there probably isn't. I think a lot of people are going to end up politically homeless. Does that mean the rise of a 'far right' party? I hope not and don't think so as we're not really like that as a country... its Tory, Labour, or nothing for most.
PS. I'm also aware many on the left feel politically homeless with blows with the wind Starmer leading the Labour Party. The next election will be decided by people holding their noses at the polling station I think. Inspiring stuff.
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Think it also depends on the intention of people.
I'd happily do a one-in-one out with a lazy, benefit scrounger who was born here with somebody who wants to come over and graft from somewhere else!
Also, the culture of Aussies, Americans and Germans is more in line with ours. The hotel I mentioned where I saw first hand was turned into a shanty town of rubbish, bikes, shopping trolleys and just rubbish thrown everywhere. Have a drive down Foleshill Road by Culworth Court and see the state of it.
AgreeThere will be an answer I agree. But while people are cheering on nonsense like Rwanda we haven't got a chance, it's not grown up politics.
Its like simultaneously talking about securing your borders while stripping border control to the bone, people have to stop buying in to this shit and seeing if there's a serious plan behind the rheororic, which in the case of the tories 9 times out of 10 there's not.
Think it also depends on the intention of people.
I'd happily do a one-in-one out with a lazy, benefit scrounger who was born here with somebody who wants to come over and graft from somewhere else!
Also, the culture of Aussies, Americans and Germans is more in line with ours. The hotel I mentioned where I saw first hand was turned into a shanty town of rubbish, bikes, shopping trolleys and just rubbish thrown everywhere. Have a drive down Foleshill Road by Culworth Court and see the state of it.
The European Commission?Well most do. That’s the point. I don’t think there’s a payment, who would pay?
The European Commission?
Well we did have a rebate, don't the ins and outs,then obviously Cameron tried to get more or something else.Do we have a deal for that? I honestly don’t know. Maybe, like we pay Rwanda. But as we generally take fewer than EU countries of be surprised.
I wish people would admit that their issue is culture. Let’s all be honest here. No one has issues with Aussies or Yanks or even Germans coming over here. It’s not about services, it’s not about housing, it’s not about crime, it’s about cultures not mixing well and bringing practices we don’t like or think we’ve left behind as a society. We got the EE chavs and a load of low skill men from Africa and the ME/Asia.
Maybe then we’d focus on how best to build community rather than side issues
Integration of some migrants maybe but that’s a two way street. I can only really talk for me but I don’t think it’s just culture for many though. I always said with Brexit my issue was lack of control ie focus on the countrys needs rather than total free movement. I’d would rather have indian, Philippine, Australian nurses, doctors and social care workers waived through than say Italian and Spanish baristas and waiters/waitresses under FoM (I do like a good coffee mind) - a broad brush stereotyping example obviously, just to make the point !
Let’s be honest it’s been a shitshow and another nail in the Tory coffin. No advance planning for what the country needs and bravermann pissing about trying to ‘stop the boats’ while seemingly abdicating responsibility for the 1.1m waived through on her watch (3/4s of which were probably justifiable/needed this year - my issue is the lax approach on the rest/overall)
Anyway, nowt we can all do so just see how it all plays out…and focus on the city win !!!
I think you’re getting there, but it’s really about ethnicity more than nationality. People like to talk about how they don’t mind Australian or German or American neighbours or whatever - if those Aussies or Germans or Yanks happen to have brown faces and headscarves then it becomes a different proposition altogether.I wish people would admit that their issue is culture. Let’s all be honest here. No one has issues with Aussies or Yanks or even Germans coming over here. It’s not about services, it’s not about housing, it’s not about crime, it’s about cultures not mixing well and bringing practices we don’t like or think we’ve left behind as a society. We got the EE chavs and a load of low skill men from Africa and the ME/Asia.
Maybe then we’d focus on how best to build community rather than side issues
I think you’re getting there, but it’s really about ethnicity more than nationality. People like to talk about how they don’t mind Australian or German or American neighbours or whatever - if those Aussies or Germans or Yanks happen to have brown faces and headscarves then it becomes a different proposition altogether.
Polish and Romanian immigrants speak a different language and have noticeably different customs to English people - the very definition of ethnicity.Explain the antipathy towards Polish and Romanian immigrants then.
People want people who speak the language and as far as possible follow the customs of the culture. Generally speaking middle class people from anywhere do this fine, and working class people from similar cultures do. But working class people from other cultures are less likely to integrate and cause the sort of social fears you see IMO.
There’s definitely racism, but I don’t think it’s the majority. There’s no evidence of widespread racism in society. All indicators are trending downwards generally. It’s just that those who care enough to start a party or “protest” tend to be the racists. Not my ex mother in law who is just a bit uncomfortable with living alongside people she doesn’t understand on the same level as she’s used to.
You can joke about not wanting to hear other languages, or headscarves, or whatever. But it’s that feeling that you aren’t secure because you aren’t with “your people” that’s very human. I think the states handles immigration better because their culture is no culture almost and it’s so big it’s easy to get along with your neighbours cos you don’t see them.
Just as an example, I’ve just been to the corner shop, the lad there is lovely, but it’s really hard just to have a basic convo with him as you do at your local shop. It’s a tiny thing and on its own completely meaningless, but each small uncomfortable interaction adds up over time.
Polish and Romanian immigrants speak a different language and have noticeably different customs to English people - the very definition of ethnicity.
….because they’re often, if not typically of a different ethnicity to English people.Oh OK. My misunderstanding of the word then. Then why mention brown people?
With regards to the student numbers a large part comes down to the reintroduction of the post study work visa in 2020, coupled with an added bump in numbers coming from people who didn’t travel in Covid times and the late opening back up of competitor markets such as Australia and New Zealand.My genuine concern is that if one of the two major parties can’t get a grip and at least put a proper plan in place, then we’re on for Farage mk 2 or worse like a lot of the rest of Europe. Unsustainable is a tricky one to answer but pressure will continue on public services and housing (if I hear one more time this is purely down to austerity I’m likely to put my head through the wall - increasing and ageing population are huge factors as is the general health of the nation in terms of nhs)
Im just a numbers/logic man and the numbers don’t stack up. I’m sure I could dig up plenty of figures but here’s one…between 1970 and 1995 the population increased by 2.3m. Between 1995 and 2020 it increased by 8.1m. I don’t need to look at house building stats to know they haven’t kept up…but I do know one of the main reasons young people don’t have kids is lack of property security/inability to buy a home which in turn impacts birth rates. I also know that with since the financial crash and pandemic and chuck in a bit of Brexit (for Tony) the economy and productivity have not kept up either
I don’t know the answer and it might sound harsh but things like dependents of those studying here having automatic visa rights should never been allowed and I can’t believe it’s only now being addressed. The actual student numbers themselves don’t quite add up for me either…how/why have they suddenly doubled/trebled and where have the extra available places come from ?!. The humanitarian routes will be what they’ll be and we should always do our bit. We can’t keep just importing 100s thousands of workers per annum long term though, not with the number of economically inactive (2m of which want to work - there must be ways to help them).
Saying all that I do think numbers might settle down a bit compared to 2022/2023 over the next year or two….obviously dependent on wars etc. let’s hope so anyway
Romanians living next very pleasant friendly etc,, family though so who knows what a hmo full would be, Poles lived out front, loud drinking but hard working, but I did have to poke my head out the door and threaten to call police to stop him kicking another eastern gentlemans head in who just happened to be passing.Polish and Romanian immigrants speak a different language and have noticeably different customs to English people - the very definition of ethnicity.
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