EFL Decision on Coventry’s future expected today (3 Viewers)

Paxman II · Apr 4, 2020

I think crucially it will depend on how long the 'lock down' needs to continue. Personally I think there is another 2 months of that alone. Then there are players match fitness, and will require time. So at the earliest mid-to-late June before any games BCD could conceivably take place. That would mean August before it finishes at best, which incroaches into the planned new season. That then requires no pre season and immediately start the new season. But what if this time line we are in is put back by just a few extra weeks? Would we be starting the new season still behind closed doors? And would it likely be November before it gets under way? That's another huge headache compounding the situation.

I still think when all the relevant authorities stop trying so hard to save the season and come to their senses, and realise it's not possible to get the season finished and done in a reasonable time frame they must look atusing the average points per game rule. Then the new season simply begins when the all clear is issued without being hampered other than a late start. Makes sense to me and I think will ultimately happen folks.

We are champions! Welcome to the championship...

Otis · Apr 4, 2020

Paxman II said:
I think crucially it will depend on how long the 'lock down' needs to continue. Personally I think there is another 2 months of that alone. Then there are players match fitness, and will require time. So at the earliest mid-to-late June before any games BCD could conceivably take place. That would mean August before it finishes at best, which incroaches into the planned new season. That then requires no pre season and immediately start the new season. But what if this time line we are in is put back by just a few extra weeks? Would we be starting the new season still behind closed doors? And would it likely be November before it gets under way? That's another huge headache compounding the situation.

I still think when all the relevant authorities stop trying so hard to save the season and come to their senses, and realise it's not possible to get the season finished and done in a reasonable time frame they must look atusing the average points per game rule. Then the new season simply begins when the all clear is issued without being hampered other than a late start. Makes sense to me and I think will ultimately happen folks.

We are champions! Welcome to the championship...

But, Pax, there is talk of a 2nd wave and a 3rd wave. It could affect us until next year.

Forget about next season. They have to concentrate on getting this one finished first.

If it was all going to be magically over in the next few months I would tend to agree with you, but without a vaccine, we could easily be looking at into 2021.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Apr 4, 2020

Paxman II said:
I think crucially it will depend on how long the 'lock down' needs to continue. Personally I think there is another 2 months of that alone. Then there are players match fitness, and will require time. So at the earliest mid-to-late June before any games BCD could conceivably take place. That would mean August before it finishes at best, which incroaches into the planned new season. That then requires no pre season and immediately start the new season. But what if this time line we are in is put back by just a few extra weeks? Would we be starting the new season still behind closed doors? And would it likely be November before it gets under way? That's another huge headache compounding the situation.

I still think when all the relevant authorities stop trying so hard to save the season and come to their senses, and realise it's not possible to get the season finished and done in a reasonable time frame they must look atusing the average points per game rule. Then the new season simply begins when the all clear is issued without being hampered other than a late start. Makes sense to me and I think will ultimately happen folks.

We are champions! Welcome to the championship...

How much do managers/coachs/players complain about having too many games? So regardless of when lockdown extends to if necessary write off next season and let them have the long rest they've been clamouring for. So if we need until November or longer to get things done so be it - there's not this mad rush to get things done and putting players at risk of injury. Also players to rest between games as well and you can concentrate on one competition at a time. Finish the league, then finish Europe cups etc.

All TV/sponsorship deals can be extended by one year to fill in the gap of the year that's missed out. As can all player contracts (to prevent cherry picking it has to be for all players inc the ones you were going to release this summer.

Either way it makes sense. If this is over quick, you finish off the games as normal and can start next season pretty much on time. If it takes longer, you can finish off the games without being worried about the timescale and let players have a rest. Or, as I expect might happen, clubs end up going on longer/more promotional tours. If players wanted to and clubs agreed short term loans to leagues continuing after ours has finished might be able to be arranged.

That solution presents far fewer problems than just cancelling a season close to completion. That will end up spending years going through the courts and cancelling it may well see a number of fans, esp for clubs like ours that were doing well, just giving up entirely and harming the product/revenue long term.

chiefdave · Apr 4, 2020

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
How much do managers/coachs/players complain about having too many games?

You could easily not have the checkatrade and league cups next season, that would buy some time. You could even skip the FA Cup and pick that up where it left off, would mean less matches to play to complete this season and less matches next season.

Paxman II · Apr 4, 2020

SkyBlue Dreamer I see what your are saying but I don't agree I'm afraid. The TV rights and conincidence with all other major sports televised would have serious consequences. Sky will not want a whole season cancelled or prolonged while teams go off playing friendlies. It's unworkable. And I truly do not think legal ramifications would stand much chance of success given the unprecedented circumstances. Far better to put this season to bed in an amicable way now, get all 92 clubs to agree tis solution, and be ready for a new season as and when it can start. Clubs are paying very high wages to players and TV rights will have powerful sway.
As Otis implies it may even go on longer or a 2nd wave happen. You can only deal with hat's in front of you and make a considered opinion based on the circumstances you find yourself in that is for the good of the game, the supporters and unfortunately the money people.

Hobo · Apr 4, 2020

Otis said:
But, Pax, there is talk of a 2nd wave and a 3rd wave. It could affect us until next year.

Forget about next season. They have to concentrate on getting this one finished first.

If it was all going to be magically over in the next few months I would tend to agree with you, but without a vaccine, we could easily be looking at into 2021.

By then a lot of clubs would be out of business.

skybluesam66 · Apr 4, 2020

Revenues on playing behind closed doors will be the biggest issue for the efl
How do they sell season tickets?

clint van damme · Apr 4, 2020

chiefdave said:
You could easily not have the checkatrade and league cups next season, that would buy some time. You could even skip the FA Cup and pick that up where it left off, would mean less matches to play to complete this season and less matches next season.

I fully expect that to happen.
Think FA cup ties will have to be done on the day
Thi k it might be worth making early rounds regional. Guaranteed derbies and bigger revenue

Grendel · Apr 4, 2020

Liverpool putting non playing staff on the government scheme - oh dear

Magwitch · Apr 4, 2020

Only Made £45 million profit last year

AVWskyblue · Apr 4, 2020

Grendel said:
Liverpool putting non playing staff on the government scheme - oh dear

Its disgusting with the wealth that club has G

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Johhny Blue · Apr 4, 2020

clint van damme said:
I definitely think we'll be seeing behind closed doors fixtures

Isn't that an Oxymoron?

clint van damme · Apr 4, 2020

Johhny Blue said:
Isn't that an Oxymoron?

I'm definitely a moron

ccfc1234 · Apr 4, 2020

AVWskyblue said:
Its disgusting with the wealth that club has G

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You find out about businesses in situations like this.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Apr 4, 2020

Paxman II said:
SkyBlue Dreamer I see what your are saying but I don't agree I'm afraid. The TV rights and conincidence with all other major sports televised would have serious consequences. Sky will not want a whole season cancelled or prolonged while teams go off playing friendlies. It's unworkable. And I truly do not think legal ramifications would stand much chance of success given the unprecedented circumstances. Far better to put this season to bed in an amicable way now, get all 92 clubs to agree tis solution, and be ready for a new season as and when it can start. Clubs are paying very high wages to players and TV rights will have powerful sway.
As Otis implies it may even go on longer or a 2nd wave happen. You can only deal with hat's in front of you and make a considered opinion based on the circumstances you find yourself in that is for the good of the game, the supporters and unfortunately the money people.

As you've put yourself it could have a second or even third wave - we don't know. So we put this season 'to bed' to get next season started, it comes back or mutates and next season they have to bring in the restrictions again and you've then got two season's knackered instead of one. Pointless and again harms the product long term.

I wasn't saying that clubs just go off to play friendlies before the end of the season. You finish the season, whenever that may be, and if it's quite late and next season would be difficult to fit into the remaining timescale ie winter then that downtime can be used to give the players a longer rest for pre-season, which the clubs use in the way they normally do for tours etc. The TV companies and clubs etc would be able to get extra revenue, esp from overseas, for playing/televising these games so their happy enough.

With things like TV deals/sponsorship these are the options.

A. You write off the remainder of this season. Rights holders and sponsors put in claims for matches they've not been able to show and lost revenue on. If you promote/relegate clubs then those that had a chance of promotion but didn't get it or are relegated but had a chance of survival (ie every club relegated) will be suing for potential loss of earnings. Don't have promotion and those clubs that were in pole position (or even in with a decent shout) to go up claim for potential loss of earnings.

B. You play all this season's games to a conclusion and none of those legal issues occur. Earnings from the following season, should it need to be cancelled, are then deferred a year. So let's say you had a three year TV/sponsorship that started for the 2018/19 season and so would cover 2018/19, 2019/20 and 2020/21. If 2020/21 has to be not be played due to the ongoing crisis not giving enough time that deal then runs for 2018/19, 2019/20 and 2021/22 instead. Far easier to work around without the need for litigation.

You end the season as is you open Pandora's Box.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Apr 4, 2020

clint van damme said:
I'm definitely a moron

Hello Gordon

Paxman II · Apr 4, 2020

It's a very difficult decision SBD and I get what you are saying, but I'll stick with what I said. I don't think clubs would attempt to sue anyone under the circumstances. It would look bad and they would be given short shrift in the courts. A bit like a force majeur situation. The governing body in football will have the last word.

I still think our season will close as it stands. A system will be used to determine final standings, and the hope will be a 2nd or 3rd wave is unlikely, and we will be able to open the new season late even if the first set of games start BCD.

Time will tell who's right.

SkyblueBazza · Apr 5, 2020

Otis said:
I think it would be an arrestable offence. Barriers up outside and a bit of police presence would suffice I think.

Added to that, that a stark waning that it will all be shutdown again if fans start to congregate.

That might work

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SkyblueBazza · Apr 23, 2020

Otis said:
I think it would be an arrestable offence. Barriers up outside and a bit of police presence would suffice I think.

Added to that, that a stark waning that it will all be shutdown again if fans start to congregate.

A further thought based upon stuff I have heard about and stuff I have witnessed with my own eyes...people will be having football parties at home instead of turning up I suspect.

Some STILL don't get it, and some have now just thrown caution to the wind. Even local supermarket staff. Social distancing has become a thing of the past to some of them already.

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dutchman · Apr 23, 2020

SkyblueBazza said:
A further thought based upon stuff I have heard about and stuff I have witnessed with my own eyes...people will be having football parties at home instead of turning up I suspect.

Or even in public areas which is why the Mayor of Eindhoven has banned PSV from playing behind closed doors.

SkyblueBazza said:
Some STILL don't get it, and some have now just thrown caution to the wind. Even local supermarket staff.

Indeed, the staff at Morrison's were telling me where to stand while ignoring distancing themselves.

SkyblueBazza · Apr 24, 2020

dutchman said:
Or even in public areas which is why the Mayor of Eindhoven has banned PSV from playing behind closed doors.

Indeed, the staff at Morrison's were telling me where to stand while ignoring distancing themselves.

Indeed...Morrison's being the same I was referring to.

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ricohroar · Apr 24, 2020

Social distancing can only work up to a point. As soon as kids go back to school its out of the window. They may sit them 2 meters apart in class rooms, but have you seen kids going in and out of schools? its like a football crowd..... There is a subway near me where school kids cross in different directions every morning, think a few thousand going under all at the same time.

Plus what about the obesity issues. What sports can any child do with social distancing? darts? Running maybe?

thekidfromstrettoncamp · Apr 24, 2020

Paxman II said:
It's a very difficult decision SBD and I get what you are saying, but I'll stick with what I said. I don't think clubs would attempt to sue anyone under the circumstances. It would look bad and they would be given short shrift in the courts. A bit like a force majeur situation. The governing body in football will have the last word.
I still think our season will close as it stands. A system will be used to determine final standings, and the hope will be a 2nd or 3rd wave is unlikely, and we will be able to open the new season late even if the first set of games start BCD.

Time will tell who's right.

You say you don't think clubs would sue just wait and see if this happens as for being given short shrift the lawers would have a field day, they will be all over the league rules and my thought are there is nothing covering this in there and probably says teams are commited to playing a full season.

Paxman II · Apr 24, 2020

thekidfromstrettoncamp said:
You say you don't think clubs would sue just wait and see if this happens as for being given short shrift the lawers would have a field day, they will be all over the league rules and my thought are there is nothing covering this in there and probably says teams are commited to playing a full season.

The lawyers would have a field day? What exactly would that approach be then? There is a pandemic killing hundreds of thousands but you think they will argue that ending the season is wrong?
In a force majeur situation the football rule book will get little attention in court. So long as the league authorities act in the spirit of their rules which are very open and ambiguous, while implementing government guidlines there can be no resonable argument.

fernandopartridge · Apr 24, 2020

Paxman II said:
The lawyers would have a field day? What exactly would that approach be then? There is a pandemic killing hundreds of thousands but you think they will argue that ending the season is wrong?
In a force majeur situation the football rule book will get little attention in court. So long as the league authorities act in the spirit of their rules which are very open and ambiguous, while implementing government guidlines there can be no resonable argument.

What a load of contradictory twaddle

Nick · Apr 24, 2020

Paxman II said:
The lawyers would have a field day? What exactly would that approach be then? There is a pandemic killing hundreds of thousands but you think they will argue that ending the season is wrong?
In a force majeur situation the football rule book will get little attention in court. So long as the league authorities act in the spirit of their rules which are very open and ambiguous, while implementing government guidlines there can be no resonable argument.

So you think if the Championship is cancelled and made void then Leeds as an example wouldn't take legal action about the hundreds of millions they miss out on and the millions they spent to try and get promoted which was all cancelled?

Paxman II · Apr 24, 2020

Nick said:
So you think if the Championship is cancelled and made void then Leeds as an example wouldn't take legal action about the hundreds of millions they miss out on and the millions they spent to try and get promoted which was all cancelled?

No Nick. I've been consistent in the view if cancelled teams would be promoted as the league stands, with no relegations. Cancelled is not the same as voided.

Paxman II · Apr 24, 2020

fernandopartridge said:
What a load of contradictory twaddle

Have you looked at the rules?

Nick · Apr 24, 2020

Paxman II said:
No Nick. I've been consistent in the view if cancelled teams would be promoted as the league stands, with no relegations. Cancelled is not the same as voided.

The legal action depends on the final outcome of the season though.

I am pretty sure some wouldn't be happy with Bolton not being relegated.

Any decision is going to suit some and not others.

fernandopartridge · Apr 24, 2020

Paxman II said:
Have you looked at the rules?

You said that the rule book will get little attention in court

yes it will, a court doesn't sit to make judgment made on person belief

and then, you said So long as the league authorities act in the spirit of their rules

which is it?

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Apr 24, 2020

SkyblueBazza said:
Some STILL don't get it, and some have now just thrown caution to the wind. Even local supermarket staff. Social distancing has become a thing of the past to some of them already.

Had to go to the shops earlier and crossed over the road cos a woman was walking on the path with her dog. She then crossed over and walked right in front of me. Knew I was there. Why not wait for me to get past and then cross - not like there were many other people or traffic about.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Apr 24, 2020

Paxman II said:
The lawyers would have a field day? What exactly would that approach be then? There is a pandemic killing hundreds of thousands but you think they will argue that ending the season is wrong?
In a force majeur situation the football rule book will get little attention in court. So long as the league authorities act in the spirit of their rules which are very open and ambiguous, while implementing government guidlines there can be no resonable argument.

It wouldn't necessarily be about ending the season, but promotion/relegation issues, and if they do or don't do it there will be complaints. With no actual rule to enforce their decision and it being made up on the fly legally it's got more holes than swiss cheese.

Then there's the other side of sponsors etc saying we didn't get a full season so we're not paying for a full season and making claims for some back if paid in advance. If paid in installments the leagues/clubs will try and sue for monies owed because they need the case. This is more likely to be covered in the contracts BUT this is a massively exceptional cicrcumstances and opens up a can of worms.

There's so many potential ways that legal action could be forthcoming from this.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Apr 24, 2020

Paxman II said:
No Nick. I've been consistent in the view if cancelled teams would be promoted as the league stands, with no relegations. Cancelled is not the same as voided.

So wouldn't each team in the higher league had course for legal action because next seasons money is having to be split between more teams? They've probably got players on longer contracts based on the revenue being split between the normal amount of teams.

Brighton Sky Blue · Apr 24, 2020

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
So wouldn't each team in the higher league had course for legal action because next seasons money is having to be split between more teams? They've probably got players on longer contracts based on the revenue being split between the normal amount of teams.

If you don’t relegate anyone it means a season of no parachute payments which presumably would instead go straight to the promoted sides

Happy_Martian · Apr 24, 2020

Govt is reviewing the Lockdown again on 7th May. B&Q are already looking to reopen their stores, as are others. While the initial panic and concerns suggested this would be a months long thing, I can foresee us returning to "normal" much quicker than that, if only based on public demand. As some have already said, some members of the public are already wandering around as if nothing is wrong. I've even seen a learner driver going around the road I live on earlier this week. I know Driving Instructors are not essential staff so I'm not too sure how you deal with social distancing in a RED hatchback :/

EFL Decision on Coventry’s future expected today (3 Viewers)

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