EFL Trophy final- our potential as a club (1 Viewer)

[Irish Sky Blue]

These are the gates for the trophy finals over the past twenty years.

2016 Barnsley Oxford 59k
2015 Bristol C Walsall 72k
2014 Chesterfield Peterborough 36k
2013 Crewe Southend 44k
2012 Chesterfield Swindon 50k
2011 Carlisle Brentford 40k
2010 Carlisle Southampton 73k
2009 Luton Scunthorpe 55k
2008 MK Grimsby 57k
2007 Bristol R Doncaster 59k
2006 Swansea Carlisle 42k
2005 Wrexham Southend 36k
2004 Blackpool Southend 34k
2003 Bristol C Carlisle 51k
2002 Blackpool Cambridge 20k
2001 Port Vale Brentford 26k
2000 Bristol C Stoke 75k (old Wembley)
1999 Millwall Wigan 55k
1998 Bournemouth Grimsby 62k
1997 Carlisle Colchester 45k

I think ticket sales between ourselves and Oxford judging by the thread on this must now be approaching the 70k mark with over a week still to go. The fact that we, in our current desperate predicament, can still sell over 40k shows the potential of this club if someone came in and got things right. Yes, there will be day trippers there and some who haven't been for a long time who will disappear again after the final. That will be the same for all clubs. If you look at the gates above very few teams in the past 20 years will have appeared in front of as many people and as many of their own fans. I would think that there is a possibility that ourselves and Oxford could beat the record for the new Wembley which seems to be the 73k for Southampton and Carlisle.
A few weeks ago some people were saying that our following to Wembley shows nothing, that all teams at Wembley take 35k 40k. The figures above disprove this.
This week I read on here someone's view that a 7 to 10k capacity at the Butts would be sufficient for the next few years. It seems from the comments of the owner of CRFC that 12000 would be the highest figure that he would accept ( to be fair to Tim he did say that the proposed ground would have a capacity of between 12k and 25k. Therefore a capacity of 12001 will still have him telling the truth). If we did move to the Butts at a much reduced capacity, say 12k, do we trust Sisu that they would ever try to expand the ground so we could meet our potential?
At the slightest whiff of sustained success we would need a 20k+ stadium. If we ever have ambitions to climb back up the leagues we need a suitable sized stadium. If the figures for those going to Wembley confirm anything surely they confirm that.

 

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[covcity4life]

southampton went from jpt final to league cup final in 6 years

 

[hutch1972]

These are the gates for the trophy finals over the past twenty years.

2016 Barnsley Oxford 59k
2015 Bristol C Walsall 72k
2014 Chesterfield Peterborough 36k
2013 Crewe Southend 44k
2012 Chesterfield Swindon 50k
2011 Carlisle Brentford 40k
2010 Carlisle Southampton 73k
2009 Luton Scunthorpe 55k
2008 MK Grimsby 57k
2007 Bristol R Doncaster 59k
2006 Swansea Carlisle 42k
2005 Wrexham Southend 36k
2004 Blackpool Southend 34k
2003 Bristol C Carlisle 51k
2002 Blackpool Cambridge 20k
2001 Port Vale Brentford 26k
2000 Bristol C Stoke 75k (old Wembley)
1999 Millwall Wigan 55k
1998 Bournemouth Grimsby 62k
1997 Carlisle Colchester 45k

I think ticket sales between ourselves and Oxford judging by the thread on this must now be approaching the 70k mark with over a week still to go. The fact that we, in our current desperate predicament, can still sell over 40k shows the potential of this club if someone came in and got things right. Yes, there will be day trippers there and some who haven't been for a long time who will disappear again after the final. That will be the same for all clubs. If you look at the gates above very few teams in the past 20 years will have appeared in front of as many people and as many of their own fans. I would think that there is a possibility that ourselves and Oxford could beat the record for the new Wembley which seems to be the 73k for Southampton and Carlisle.
A few weeks ago some people were saying that our following to Wembley shows nothing, that all teams at Wembley take 35k 40k. The figures above disprove this.
This week I read on here someone's view that a 7 to 10k capacity at the Butts would be sufficient for the next few years. It seems from the comments of the owner of CRFC that 12000 would be the highest figure that he would accept ( to be fair to Tim he did say that the proposed ground would have a capacity of between 12k and 25k. Therefore a capacity of 12001 will still have him telling the truth). If we did move to the Butts at a much reduced capacity, say 12k, do we trust Sisu that they would ever try to expand the ground so we could meet our potential?
At the slightest whiff of sustained success we would need a 20k+ stadium. If we ever have ambitions to climb back up the leagues we need a suitable sized stadium. If the figures for those going to Wembley confirm anything surely they confirm that.

A successful season in league 2 would still see gates well over 12k .

 

[Adge]

A successful season in league 2 would still see gates well over 12k .

It would indeed! Any wiff off the playoffs come April next season will see people come back. Not likely to happen though with this shower in charge.

 

[dongonzalos]

Our average attendance last year was over 12k and for one match we got 17k. That was with a tiny wiff of success.
If the owners had genuine ambitions of a return to the championship. You would get planning permission for 25k agreed from the off, to ensure it is possible. Even if you actually only started off building 15k.
Jon Sharpe is right when he insists on no more than 12k.
12k is too small for CCFC unless of course we are intending to stay as a division 4 / division 3 yo yo team

 

[Grendel]

Not this pointless debate again

 

[robbiethemole]

I thought Leicester had won this but obviously not, still didn't do Saints any harm having a kickstart winning it.

Hope and pray it does the same for us, (without SISU owning us)

 

[skybluesam66]

Our average attendance last year was over 12k and for one match we got 17k. That was with a tiny wiff of success.
If the owners had genuine ambitions of a return to the championship. You would get planning permission for 25k agreed from the off, to ensure it is possible. Even if you actually only started off building 15k.
Jon Sharpe is right when he insists on no more than 12k.
12k is too small for CCFC unless of course we are intending to stay as a division 4 / division 3 yo yo team

at least that means a promotion at some point!!

 

[Covstu]

Our average attendance last year was over 12k and for one match we got 17k. That was with a tiny wiff of success.
If the owners had genuine ambitions of a return to the championship. You would get planning permission for 25k agreed from the off, to ensure it is possible. Even if you actually only started off building 15k.
Jon Sharpe is right when he insists on no more than 12k.
12k is too small for CCFC unless of course we are intending to stay as a division 4 / division 3 yo yo team

How many did we take to Wembley in 87 then what was the attendance the following home game?

The point is that at least 50% of the Wembley attendance will not have any intention of going to watch city so you cannot use these figures as a barometer in my opinion. When we were flying in the late 90s we used to get 16-22k depending on games, I think this is a fair reflection of the support in this city long term

 

[Irish Sky Blue]

How many did we take to Wembley in 87 then what was the attendance the following home game?

The point is that at least 50% of the Wembley attendance will not have any intention of going to watch city so you cannot use these figures as a barometer in my opinion. When we were flying in the late 90s we used to get 16-22k depending on games, I think this is a fair reflection of the support in this city long term

If 50% of the Wembley attendance came to support the City I think we would all be happy. I think you underestimate how many of the 40k are City fans waiting for a reason to return.Even 16k to 22k is a lot more than 12k. The season of the "Entertainers", the late 90s we finished 14th, not really flying. Fifty years of almost total mediocrity in terms of wins and league position has taken its toll. However, the potential is still there. A good season even in the fourth division where we remained in contention from start to finish would see gates above 16k I think. A stadium of 8k, 10k or 12k would really put a ceiling on how far we could climb.

 

[Irish Sky Blue]

How many did we take to Wembley in 87 then what was the attendance the following home game?

The point is that at least 50% of the Wembley attendance will not have any intention of going to watch city so you cannot use these figures as a barometer in my opinion. When we were flying in the late 90s we used to get 16-22k depending on games, I think this is a fair reflection of the support in this city long term

I think we took about 25k to the cup final. Gates were definitely much improved the following season.

 

[Grendel]

I think we took about 25k to the cup final. Gates were definitely much improved the following season.

Only as the deal was get a season ticket and you get a cup final ticket.

If Wembley was a barometer of support Oxford had better build a 40,000 stadium based on last years interest.

The biggest indicator to me is how rapidly support dwindled in the championship at Highfield road. We were down to 14,000 diehards very quickly. As I've said before the 6 people who've got my tickets will never go again.

 

[Essexrobbie]

A successful season in league 2 would still see gates well over 12k .

I agree completely. If we were to do well next season and have a decisive match against another performing club, the fans would flock back in their thousands. People love a match that has something at stake , whatever the division ...or cup.
Secondly, a lot of those finals were played at Cardiff while wembley was being done up, thus affecting the gates.

 

[dongonzalos]

P

How many did we take to Wembley in 87 then what was the attendance the following home game?

The point is that at least 50% of the Wembley attendance will not have any intention of going to watch city so you cannot use these figures as a barometer in my opinion. When we were flying in the late 90s we used to get 16-22k depending on games, I think this is a fair reflection of the support in this city long term

I am not using Wembley as a barometer.
I am using last season as a barometer in which a 12k stadium would have been too small.
That was with a mild sniff of success.
So unless our owners don't plan on having any future success 12k is too small.
Grendel is right there is no debate.

 

[vow]

Only as the deal was get a season ticket and you get a cup final ticket.

If Wembley was a barometer of support Oxford had better build a 40,000 stadium based on last years interest.

The biggest indicator to me is how rapidly support dwindled in the championship at Highfield road. We were down to 14,000 diehards very quickly. As I've said before the 6 people who've got my tickets will never go again.

Fook me, you know 6 people?

 

[Irish Sky Blue]

Only as the deal was get a season ticket and you get a cup final ticket.

If Wembley was a barometer of support Oxford had better build a 40,000 stadium based on last years interest.

The biggest indicator to me is how rapidly support dwindled in the championship at Highfield road. We were down to 14,000 diehards very quickly. As I've said before the 6 people who've got my tickets will never go again.

After we won the semi final, anyone who went to the remaining 4 league games were given some priority for Wembley tickets, those games were all sell outs as far as I can remember. I don't remember a requirement to buy a season ticket as being necessary to buy a cup final ticket. The following season we would have 25k in a 24k capacity stadium. Nice but not possible.Don't think we had any where near 20k season ticket holders that following season.
Surely almost all City fans who want to see us return to at least the Championship would agree that 12k is far too small.

 

[Gazolba]

We need a short-term solution and a long-term solution.
12k is fine for a short-term solution.
For a longer term solution 5k might be fine if we exit the FL, or we might need 25k if we bounce back immediately.
Personally, I don't foresee any success or large crowds on the horizon.

 

[CovBurty]

Understand your viewpoint of needing a bigger ground capacity. But while Sisu are owners the team potential will not match the fans potential. In other words we are destined to underperform. So, that's why Sisu see the Butts as sufficient size. Sisu couldn't give a shit. More than likely content to stay L2 side. No ambition. So all this talk about potential is irrelevant, while Sisu remain.

 

[letsallsingtogether]

Understand your viewpoint of needing a bigger ground capacity. But while Sisu are owners the team potential will not match the fans potential. In other words we are destined to underperform. So, that's why Sisu see the Butts as sufficient size. Sisu couldn't give a shit. More than likely content to stay L2 side. No ambition. So all this talk about potential is irrelevant, while Sisu remain.

Correct so we should all just agree.
Sisu out Sisu fuck off.

 

[Skyblueweeman]

southampton went from jpt final to league cup final in 6 years

With a billionaire pumping money in to get them there...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[JHarding1987]

How many tickets have we sold? Last report was 'over 41,000',but that was one over a week ago.

 

[scubasteve]

Comparing what we used to get in the premier league to what we could get being a championship/premiership team in the future are completely different.
All attendances were lower in the 90s. The premier league is a lot bigger now its a global brand, Southampton, derby, Leicester who are similar sized teams, never got anywhere close to the attendances they do now compared to 15+ years ago. If we were a championship team pushing play offs we would get 25k+ (we were getting around 20k and we were crap when we first moved to the ricoh), in premiership would be a sell out every week maybe if we played Burnley or something similar it might dip slightly. So currently a 12k BPA is fine, but in the future any sort of success it wouldn't be. Anyone can say Wembley is full of day trippers who wont go again, I beg to differ if we were playing Chelsea, man utd, Liverpool etc every week, plenty of people were scrambling for tickets when we played Chelsea in the fa cup.

 

[rob9872]

After we won the semi final, anyone who went to the remaining 4 league games were given some priority for Wembley tickets, those games were all sell outs as far as I can remember. I don't remember a requirement to buy a season ticket as being necessary to buy a cup final ticket. The following season we would have 25k in a 24k capacity stadium. Nice but not possible.Don't think we had any where near 20k season ticket holders that following season.
Surely almost all City fans who want to see us return to at least the Championship would agree that 12k is far too small.

There was a 14 hour queue for season tickets that included the last 3/4 games and the following season - I know as I was in it! Dad left for work and left me and my brother in the queue, came back in the evening and we had moved around 100 yards to be half way down King Richard Street having started way up in Swan Lane.

 

[stevefloyd]

20k and 26k thats a piss poor effort from them

 

[SkyblueBazza]

A successful season in league 2 would still see gates well over 12k .

I suspect our owners are more interested in maximising return on investment rather than anything else. They would happily see gates tumble to 5k as this would mean they could build, buy or lease a small (5k) local stadium - & fill it every week. Supply & demand means charging tip dollar for each bum in the seat.
Return to consistent dizzy heights of L1, challenging for play-off & they'd likely have a plan to increase capacity to 10k...same top dollar would apply.
In fairness there is a lot to be said for sustainability of income, demand, growth & profit margin. And that is what they're about

...onwards & upwards PUSB

 

[RocketSkates]

I think if SISU left we'd fill out a 12k capacity easily every game, even if we played like shite. I genuinely think their debilitating effect on the club has affected numbers, particularly this season with the NOPM mentality growing among fans. Wouldn't surprise me even we filled out the Ricoh first match after they leave.... if they leave

 

[SkyblueBazza]

I think if SISU left we'd fill out a 12k capacity easily every game, even if we played like shite. I genuinely think their debilitating effect on the club has affected numbers, particularly this season with the NOPM mentality growing among fans. Wouldn't surprise me even we filled out the Ricoh first match after they leave.... if they leave

I agree...but the cost of them leaving might be a price too high for the vast majority of likely buyers. We are a toxic investment

...onwards & upwards PUSB

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

I agree...but the cost of them leaving might be a price too high for the vast majority of likely buyers. We are a toxic investment

...onwards & upwards PUSB

Look at Brighton as a comparison- similar gates to us, moved away from the old Goldstone ground to play whilst their new stadium was built and now get gates hovering around 30,000.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Or look at Notts Cty...back in the 60's 35k, L2 now about 5k

...onwards & upwards PUSB

 

[Astute]

Our average gates before SISU were over 20k. How would they all fit into a 12k stadium that won't be built once SISU do the right thing and leave so we can rebuild our once proud football club?

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Our average gates before SISU were over 20k. How would they all fit into a 12k stadium that won't be built once SISU do the right thing and leave so we can rebuild our once proud football club?

They wouldn't but supply means higher ticket prices & more profitability for the owners. That is like a dream come true to them. If they could extend to 20k & fill it each game while being an average, or yo-yo club to & from the Premiership, they'd probably be in their element.

...onwards & upwards PUSB

 

[ps1948]

southampton went from jpt final to league cup final in 6 years

And that happened only a short time after they turned down the opportunity to be run by SISU...........they must be looking at us realising what a lucky escape they had!

 

[ps1948]

[QUOTE="Essexrobbie, post: 1300328, member: 3026".
Secondly, a lot of those finals were played at Cardiff while wembley was being done up, thus affecting the gates.[/QUOTE]
If we had got to a final in Cardiff we would still have sold our full allocation.

 

[Irish Sky Blue]

From 2000 to 2008 the trophy finals were held in Cardiff. There does seem to be a dip in attendances for these games.