We're 11th in the league and are 11th top scorers. Lack of goals isn't quite the issue its being made out to be though clearly if we want to bridge the gap to the top 6 we need improvement.
Millwall are above us with 9 less goals but they have a fantastic defensive record.
Least it’s happened unlike when I asked you to find me slagging off Tavares you couldn’t find you waffle headIt’s happened 3 times this season where Kane has started with Dabo on the bench, it was the first 3 games Dabo was back after injury. He’s making stats up off the top of his head again.
Or we're 11th because we're the 11th top scorers?
Shots stats make much more interesting reading. We're behind only Fulham on total shots and shots on target. 182 total shots this season, Bournemouth have had 167 in 3rd. It's actually a very good representation of the league, apart from we're a lot lower than in the shots table, and Luton are a lot higher. Clearly finishing is a big issue.
I'd be much more worried if I were Luton, where would they be if they suddenly stopped being so clinical?
Wouldn't it be cheaper to bring in a striking coach to try and improve the current lot first?The point is that very few in the team can shoot properly, and we need to bring a couple in to do that next year. It's stating the bleedin' obvious, but you don't score by sweeping it tamely wide or too near the keeper. Go through the squad and ask yourself how confident you would be in each player to finish a clear chance from 15 yards.
Don't get me wrong, this is probably our most entertaining team since we dropped out of the Prem, and we knock it around superbly. It's just a shame so few can pick the right spot and hit it with power and accuracy. You'd like to think Robins could teach them, but I'm not sure it's something that can be learned once you are a pro in your twenties?
Wouldn't get much doneWouldn't it be cheaper to bring in a striking coach to try and improve the current lot first?
Does that include the O’Hare shots that are on target but don’t make it to the goal?Or we're 11th because we're the 11th top scorers?
Shots stats make much more interesting reading. We're behind only Fulham on total shots and shots on target. 182 total shots this season, Bournemouth have had 167 in 3rd. It's actually a very good representation of the league, apart from we're a lot lower than in the shots table, and Luton are a lot higher. Clearly finishing is a big issue.
I'd be much more worried if I were Luton, where would they be if they suddenly stopped being so clinical?
Isn’t the manager a former striker who played under sir Alex ?Wouldn't it be cheaper to bring in a striking coach to try and improve the current lot first?
Isn’t the manager a former striker who played under sir Alex ?
Agreed- Our problem is not going forward it is at the back. In numerous home games recently we have conceded the first goal early allowing the opposition to sit back and play on the break hence our high possession stats, Sorting Out central defence hascto be the priority for the Summer. We need a replacement for Fadz who has been brilliant for us but can.t go on forever, Hyam is too slow if we want to progress and Rose frustratingly inconsistent. Clarke Salter has been our best defender this season but can we afford him? If you look at the stats I should think all the sides above us will have conceded fewer goals than us this season,The entire defence is a much bigger priority at the moment, we give away so many pathetic goals.
Agreed- Our problem is not going forward it is at the back. In numerous home games recently we have conceded the first goal early allowing the opposition to sit back and play on the break hence our high possession stats, Sorting Out central defence hascto be the priority for the Summer. We need a replacement for Fadz who has been brilliant for us but can.t go on forever, Hyam is too slow if we want to progress and Rose frustratingly inconsistent. Clarke Salter has been our best defender this season but can we afford him? If you look at the stats I should think all the sides above us will have conceded fewer goals than us this season,
Doesn't necessarily making him good at teaching others.Isn’t the manager a former striker who played under sir Alex ?
point in being is that Gyokeres scores most of his goals when he miss hits them! every time he get a good strike its either at the goalkeeper or just past the woodwork. look at the over the top ball to Gyokeres against Sheff Utd if he had hit that cleanly the goalie would have saved it.The point is that very few in the team can shoot properly, and we need to bring a couple in to do that next year. It's stating the bleedin' obvious, but you don't score by sweeping it tamely wide or too near the keeper. Go through the squad and ask yourself how confident you would be in each player to finish a clear chance from 15 yards.
Don't get me wrong, this is probably our most entertaining team since we dropped out of the Prem, and we knock it around superbly. It's just a shame so few can pick the right spot and hit it with power and accuracy. You'd like to think Robins could teach them, but I'm not sure it's something that can be learned once you are a pro in your twenties?
Well, it's a mix of both.Agreed- Our problem is not going forward it is at the back. In numerous home games recently we have conceded the first goal early allowing the opposition to sit back and play on the break hence our high possession stats, Sorting Out central defence hascto be the priority for the Summer. We need a replacement for Fadz who has been brilliant for us but can.t go on forever, Hyam is too slow if we want to progress and Rose frustratingly inconsistent. Clarke Salter has been our best defender this season but can we afford him? If you look at the stats I should think all the sides above us will have conceded fewer goals than us this season,
Apparently its all about the players ability to become ice cold when in on goal, i only ever see that on Godden.Doesn't necessarily making him good at teaching others.
Sometimes just having a natural ability or aptitude at something makes it harder to teach other people, because they don't have that same inherent skill as you and you don't know why it is they don't have it.
This hasn't been updated since November sadly, would be good to see an up to date version.
It shows Godden and Gyokeres as amongst the top 10% of finishers and shows that Waghorn, O'Hare, Hamer and Sheaf should score more.
Pretty much as expected though I would suspect an updated version would have Gyokeres much lower.
Also the Expected Goals table (up to date) is as expected.
Shows that we would be 4th in the league on expected goals. So clearly we create so many chances, we just cannot convert them.
Expected goals table: Championship, 13 Mar 2022
These alternative league tables are calculated using expected goals (as seen in my match timelines). There’s a full explanation in the first post here.experimental361.com
This hasn't been updated since November sadly, would be good to see an up to date version.
It shows Godden and Gyokeres as amongst the top 10% of finishers and shows that Waghorn, O'Hare, Hamer and Sheaf should score more.
Pretty much as expected though I would suspect an updated version would have Gyokeres much lower.
Also the Expected Goals table (up to date) is as expected.
Shows that we would be 4th in the league on expected goals. So clearly we create so many chances, we just cannot convert them.
Expected goals table: Championship, 13 Mar 2022
These alternative league tables are calculated using expected goals (as seen in my match timelines). There’s a full explanation in the first post here.experimental361.com
I posted this on another topic, but think it probably deserves its own thread. I was looking at the stats from last night and once again we have dominated possession, set pieces, and shots. However, we lost 2-0. Result aside, it feels like you could copy and paste the same figures for about 80% of our games this season. It got me thinking, so I went through and looked at the goals and assists from our team per player. The list is core squad members, and their stats include their full CCFC career, which obviously means in some cases games across other leagues and not just the Championship.
Fantaky Dabo: 94 games, 5 assists, 0 goals.
Jake Bidwell: 10 games, 0 assists, 0 goals.
Jake Clarke-Salter: 28 games, 0 assists, 0 goals.
Dominic Hyam: 180 games, 1 assist, 9 goals.
Michael Rose: 83 games, 4 assists, 3 goals.
Kyle McFadzean: 112 games, 2 assists, 5 goals.
Ian Maatsen: 33 games, 1 assist, 3 goals.
Todd Kane: 25 games, 5 assists, 1 goal.
Gustavo Hamer: 76 games, 9 assists, 8 goals.
Ben Sheaf: 62 games, 5 assists, 0 goals.
Jamie Allen: 70 games, 4 assists, 3 goals.
Liam Kelly: 144 games, 11 assists, 3 goals.
Jordan Shipley: 160 games, 14 assists, 20 goals.
Josh Eccles: 26 games, 1 assist, 0 goals.
Callum O´Hare: 125 games, 20 assists, 10 goals.
Viktor Gyokeres: 56 games, 5 assists, 17 goals.
Matty Godden: 78 games, 6 assists, 32 goals.
Martyn Waghorn: 23 games, 2 assists, 1 goal.
Tyler Walker: 53 games, 3 assists, 11 goals.
It raises a few points:
- We have some great players in the squad, but there is probably more dead wood not contributing than people think.
- If we are insistent on the wingback system, we need players in those positions to contribute with assists and goals, which they aren´t doing enough.
- If the strikers are having an off day, we are unlikely to score. The midfield are extremely goal shy other than Hamer, who often sits deep anyway.
- There are a few players that had better stats in lower leagues, but aren´t performing to this level.
- Some CBs have more assists and goals than midfielders.
- I know as a CB it isn´t your job to score, but they should be a threat at set pieces. We are extremely poor at utilising them in my opinion (but that is a separate point not necessarily linked to these stats).
People can of course interpret this information as they want to, and I hope we can have a good debate about it. It isn´t just a case of having a go because we lost last night. There is a bigger picture here that probably needs addressing and has been on my mind for a while. Certainly from a personal perspective it gets so frustrating to watch us dominate so many games but come up short too often.
Interested to hear other people´s opinions on this.
Might be a bit out there but it's almost as if now our players don't fit the system that did us so well previously. Maybe Robins will try something new next season formation wise
I'm not sure on that. Which players do you think don't fit the system?
I would say that Bidwell and Kane looks like they'd make better fullbacks than wingbacks, but other than that I think all players fit the system well. We're not playing anyone out of position.
I just think hamer is too creative to be sitting as deep as he does, and sheaf needs to be more box to box. We've got wingbacks who are more full backs (when maatsen leaves) and the little and large partnership with gyo and godden isn't as affective together as biamou and mcnulty were this formation for example. I've thought for a while the formation needs a shakeup but I guess it's the coventry dna and how Robins wants to play. With the right recruitment this formation will be back to its best.
20 goals 20 goals Jordan Shipley, 20 goals 20 goals I sayI posted this on another topic, but think it probably deserves its own thread. I was looking at the stats from last night and once again we have dominated possession, set pieces, and shots. However, we lost 2-0. Result aside, it feels like you could copy and paste the same figures for about 80% of our games this season. It got me thinking, so I went through and looked at the goals and assists from our team per player. The list is core squad members, and their stats include their full CCFC career, which obviously means in some cases games across other leagues and not just the Championship.
Fantaky Dabo: 94 games, 5 assists, 0 goals.
Jake Bidwell: 10 games, 0 assists, 0 goals.
Jake Clarke-Salter: 28 games, 0 assists, 0 goals.
Dominic Hyam: 180 games, 1 assist, 9 goals.
Michael Rose: 83 games, 4 assists, 3 goals.
Kyle McFadzean: 112 games, 2 assists, 5 goals.
Ian Maatsen: 33 games, 1 assist, 3 goals.
Todd Kane: 25 games, 5 assists, 1 goal.
Gustavo Hamer: 76 games, 9 assists, 8 goals.
Ben Sheaf: 62 games, 5 assists, 0 goals.
Jamie Allen: 70 games, 4 assists, 3 goals.
Liam Kelly: 144 games, 11 assists, 3 goals.
Jordan Shipley: 160 games, 14 assists, 20 goals.
Josh Eccles: 26 games, 1 assist, 0 goals.
Callum O´Hare: 125 games, 20 assists, 10 goals.
Viktor Gyokeres: 56 games, 5 assists, 17 goals.
Matty Godden: 78 games, 6 assists, 32 goals.
Martyn Waghorn: 23 games, 2 assists, 1 goal.
Tyler Walker: 53 games, 3 assists, 11 goals.
It raises a few points:
- We have some great players in the squad, but there is probably more dead wood not contributing than people think.
- If we are insistent on the wingback system, we need players in those positions to contribute with assists and goals, which they aren´t doing enough.
- If the strikers are having an off day, we are unlikely to score. The midfield are extremely goal shy other than Hamer, who often sits deep anyway.
- There are a few players that had better stats in lower leagues, but aren´t performing to this level.
- Some CBs have more assists and goals than midfielders.
- I know as a CB it isn´t your job to score, but they should be a threat at set pieces. We are extremely poor at utilising them in my opinion (but that is a separate point not necessarily linked to these stats).
People can of course interpret this information as they want to, and I hope we can have a good debate about it. It isn´t just a case of having a go because we lost last night. There is a bigger picture here that probably needs addressing and has been on my mind for a while. Certainly from a personal perspective it gets so frustrating to watch us dominate so many games but come up short too often.
Interested to hear other people´s opinions on this.
I quite like the look of Pipa from Huddersfield played 5 games this season due to Sorba Thomas’s breakthrough and injury, only 24 could potentially poach him if they go up and on a similar budget to last season and sell Walker- If we are insistent on the wingback system, we need players in those positions to contribute with assists and goals, which they aren´t doing enough.
- If we are insistent on the wingback system, we need players in those positions to contribute with assists and goals, which they aren´t doing enough.
Which wing-back got most Assists in the league last season?
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