England squad (5 Viewers)

[SBAndy]

Left field shout for the squad (and accepting it’s too late in the day now really) would have been Ruben Loftus-Cheek to play in that CM position with Rice. Seems from a stats-basis to be having a good season at Milan.

 

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[stupot07]

Absolutely not. Keep religious nonsense out of football.

Haha yes...like "GOD" save the King? We're literally asking god to save our king over and over again.

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[Tommo1993]

Haha yes...like "GOD" save the King? We're literally asking god to save our king over and over again.

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Fair. Still can’t see the importance in some made up guy visiting the area which is now Gloucestershire, long before England was even a thing.

 

[SBbucks]

Haha yes...like "GOD" save the King? We're literally asking god to save our king over and over again.

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An anthem lauding an 18th century general destroying the Scots and featuring a non-existent man on a cloud.
Very relevant to the modern day!
Get rid, we wouldn’t miss it.

 

[Grendel]

Absolutely not. Keep religious nonsense out of football.

I had to look at the poem Jerusalem at A level - William Blake was an interesting character.

He would turn in his grave. He was anti establishment, anti religion and anti monarchy.

The poem is considered by some to be an uprising of the under privileged against the owners of the factories in the industrial revolution.

 

[wingy]

I had to look at the poem Jerusalem at A level - William Blake was an interesting character.

He would turn in his grave. He was anti establishment, anti religion and anti monarchy.

The poem is considered by some to be an uprising of the under privileged against the owners of the factories in the industrial revolution.

I vow to thee my country!!

 

[Grendel]

Where are people being dismissed or told to feel guilty? I personally don’t feel anywhere near these levels of insecurity about showing pride in my country - public displays are all over the place these days, I can’t think of many flags or traditions that are now considered taboo.

I know you don’t like surveys but last time it was surveyed one in four said it’s a racist flag

 

[SBT]

I know you don’t like surveys but last time it was surveyed one in four said it’s a racist flag

Think that’s a pretty good example of how relying on surveys for wisdom is a pretty poor substitute for actually going outside.

 

[Grendel]

Think that’s a pretty good example of how relying on surveys for wisdom is a pretty poor substitute for actually going outside.

So you are saying the quarter don’t go out? That’s some revelation

 

[SBT]

So you are saying the quarter don’t go out? That’s some revelation

I don’t believe that 1 in 4 people would see me putting an England flag in my window (or in a pub, or shop window, or office, or car) and assume I was flying a racist flag - otherwise you’d expect to hear about it pretty quick and hardly anyone would bother.

In reality….well, again, you’d have to look away from the screen.

 

[Grendel]

I don’t believe that 1 in 4 people would see me putting an England flag in my window (or in a pub, or shop window, or office, or car) and assume I was flying a racist flag - otherwise you’d expect to hear about it pretty quick and hardly anyone would bother.

In reality….well, again, you’d have to look away from the screen.

I guess Emily Thornberry hasn’t driven past your house

 

[SBbucks]

Unfortunately I can no longer look at an England flag without associating it with the far right, it just shows how it’s been completely hijacked over the last 4 or 5 years and now feels toxic to me. It always had those connotations on the margins but now it’s become mainstream. The Union flag has a similar effect, certainly post-Brexit where it now represents much of what is wrong with the country.
I used to think of myself as patriotic but both flags are now contaminated in my eyes to the extent that I’m not sure I could enjoy an England game anymore.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Unfortunately I can no longer look at an England flag without associating it with the far right, it just shows how it’s been completely hijacked over the last 4 or 5 years and now feels toxic to me. It always had those connotations on the margins but now it’s become mainstream. The Union flag has a similar effect, certainly post-Brexit where it now represents much of what is wrong with the country.
I used to think of myself as patriotic but both flags are now contaminated in my eyes to the extent that I’m not sure I could enjoy an England game anymore.

Don’t visit the Shankill Road then

 

[SBbucks]

Don’t visit the Shankill Road then

I wasn’t planning to!

 

[Otis]

Unfortunately I can no longer look at an England flag without associating it with the far right, it just shows how it’s been completely hijacked over the last 4 or 5 years and now feels toxic to me. It always had those connotations on the margins but now it’s become mainstream. The Union flag has a similar effect, certainly post-Brexit where it now represents much of what is wrong with the country.
I used to think of myself as patriotic but both flags are now contaminated in my eyes to the extent that I’m not sure I could enjoy an England game anymore.

Weirdly, I feel quite differently. I think there definitely was a time where the flag was hijacked by far right groups, but that we have now claimed it back as our own again.

I wouldn't have put my flag out of the window on St George's Day or for England games at one point, but I certainly would now.

 

[SBbucks]

Weirdly, I feel quite differently. I think there definitely was a time where the flag was hijacked by far right groups, but that we have now claimed it back as our own again.

I wouldn't have put my flag out of the window on St George's Day or for England games at one point, but I certainly would now.

That’s absolutely not how it feels to me and I would never dream of putting either of them out. But we’re all different, and I can only say how they make me feel.

 

[Otis]

Unfortunately I can no longer look at an England flag without associating it with the far right, it just shows how it’s been completely hijacked over the last 4 or 5 years and now feels toxic to me. It always had those connotations on the margins but now it’s become mainstream. The Union flag has a similar effect, certainly post-Brexit where it now represents much of what is wrong with the country.
I used to think of myself as patriotic but both flags are now contaminated in my eyes to the extent that I’m not sure I could enjoy an England game anymore.

What about the Women's Euro win campaign in 2022?

Loads of England flags about then across the country and in stadiums.

 

[SBbucks]

What about the Women's Euro win campaign in 2022?

Loads of England flags about then across the country and in stadiums.

To be honest I didn’t pay any attention to the women’s games but I certainly wasn’t aware of flags being flown in 2022 the way they were for Euros or World cups 10-20 years ago. In fact the flags seem to have largely disappeared for the last few mens tournaments.
Anyway, putting that aside, you misunderstand what I said. I didn’t say that every flag waver had right wing tendencies, clearly that is not the case, but unfortunately the main association I make when I see the England or union flag is of their misappropriation by the toxic right.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Unfortunately I can no longer look at an England flag without associating it with the far right, it just shows how it’s been completely hijacked over the last 4 or 5 years and now feels toxic to me. It always had those connotations on the margins but now it’s become mainstream. The Union flag has a similar effect, certainly post-Brexit where it now represents much of what is wrong with the country.
I used to think of myself as patriotic but both flags are now contaminated in my eyes to the extent that I’m not sure I could enjoy an England game anymore.

Post of the day.

Not only have you proved half my points for me, but you've also made me laugh at the same time. What an utterly embarrassing post.

 

[SBbucks]

Post of the day.

Not only have you proved half my points for me, but you've also made me laugh at the same time. What an utterly embarrassing post.

Glad to be of service. Can you honestly say you can look at an England flag (or union flag) and not associate it in any way at all with the right wing using it for political purposes? If you can, I would suggest you’re living in a very blinkered world.

 

[Otis]

Glad to be of service. Can you honestly say you can look at an England flag (or union flag) and not associate it in any way at all with the right wing using it for political purposes? If you can, I would suggest you’re living in a very blinkered world.

In saying that though, couldn't you also say that for any other country?

I would have thought extremist French groups would highlight the French flag and in the US, they would use the Stars and Stripes and in Italy , the Italian flag and so forth and so forth.

Is that not correct? I just assumed that all "patriotic" far right groups would use their national flag for political purposes.

Can't say I have that much knowledge on the subject, so am actually asking the question here.

I just remember a time in this country, where people stopped flying the St George flag, but over the last few years it seems to have been reclaimed by us all and I see it about much more and on St George's Day etc.

Obviously, you will still get far right groups using it too. That makes sense doesn't it?

Or am I missing something?

 

[SBbucks]

In saying that though, couldn't you also say that for any other country?

I would have thought extremist French groups would highlight the French flag and in the US, they would use the Stars and Stripes and in Italy , the Italian flag and so forth and so forth.

Is that not correct? I just assumed that all "patriotic" far right groups would use their national flag for political purposes.

Can't say I have that much knowledge on the subject, so am actually asking the question here.

I just remember a time in this country, where people stopped flying the St George flag, but over the last few years it seems to have been reclaimed by us all and I see it about much more and on St George's Day etc.

Obviously, you will still get far right groups using it too. That makes sense doesn't it?

Or am I missing something?

Yes you’re right, it’s absolutely a trait of the right/far right in plenty of countries. It doesn’t make it any more palatable here though.
I think the heyday of tournament flag flying was between about 1996 to 2010, it seems to have dropped off since then. I would have expected more during Euros in 2021 and 2022 World Cup but didn’t seem to happen. Despite relatively good progress in those, there didn’t seem to be massive enthusiasm (probably the Southgate factor..)

 

[Evo1883]

Glad to be of service. Can you honestly say you can look at an England flag (or union flag) and not associate it in any way at all with the right wing using it for political purposes? If you can, I would suggest you’re living in a very blinkered world.

I guess if you obsess over politics and become fully enclosed in your own echo chamber then yes , I can see how you'd think this way .

 

[Evo1883]

To be honest I didn’t pay any attention to the women’s games but I certainly wasn’t aware of flags being flown in 2022 the way they were for Euros or World cups 10-20 years ago. In fact the flags seem to have largely disappeared for the last few mens tournaments.
Anyway, putting that aside, you misunderstand what I said. I didn’t say that every flag waver had right wing tendencies, clearly that is not the case, but unfortunately the main association I make when I see the England or union flag is of their misappropriation by the toxic right.

Do you not think there are less flags simply because there are far more nationalities of people living in each town and city compared to 1996 ? Seems a reasonable reason to me ..

 

[SBbucks]

I guess if you obsess over politics and become fully enclosed in your own echo chamber then yes , I can see how you'd think this way .

Less an echo chamber, more an awareness and interest in what’s going on in our country and the wider world.

 

[Evo1883]

Less an echo chamber, more an awareness and interest in what’s going on in our country and the wider world.

I doubt that most people think like you do on this sorry

 

[SBbucks]

Do you not think there are less flags simply because there are far more nationalities of people living in each town and city compared to 1996 ? Seems a reasonable reason to me ..

No, I think there is less interest in overt displays of nationalism among the majority of the population.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

No, I think there is less interest in overt displays of nationalism among the majority of the population.

There’s a difference between nationalism and patriotism

 

[SBbucks]

There’s a difference between nationalism and patriotism

Yep, fair enough. There seems to be less interest in overt displays of patriotism in the majority of the population (possibly because it is seen as tinged with nationalism).

 

[Evo1883]

No, I think there is less interest in overt displays of nationalism among the majority of the population.

You don't think there's a correlation between less English people and less st George's flags hanging out of house windows ?

In 2021 coventry 72% of the population were born in the UK , not specifically England either that's over a quarter of the city

 

[SBbucks]

I doubt that most people think like you do on this sorry

Each to their own. If people want to bury their heads in the sand that is their prerogative.

 

[SBbucks]

You don't think there's a correlation between less English people and less st George's flags hanging out of house windows ?

Not that you could measure in 10-15 years, no. I have lived in the same area for over 25 years and the population mix has barely changed in that time. The quantity of flags has reduced dramatically over the same period.
Even the hysteria the media tried to whip up over the queen’s death and the coronation was greeted with barely a flutter.

 

[Evo1883]

Not that you could measure in 10-15 years, no. I have lived in the same area for over 25 years and the population mix has barely changed in that time. The quantity of flags has reduced dramatically over the same period.
Even the hysteria the media tried to whip up over the queen’s death and the coronation was greeted with barely a flutter.

Which area ?

 

[SBbucks]

Which area ?

Leafy Bucks, the clue is in the name. About as blue wall as you could get.

 

[Grendel]

Glad to be of service. Can you honestly say you can look at an England flag (or union flag) and not associate it in any way at all with the right wing using it for political purposes? If you can, I would suggest you’re living in a very blinkered world.

The communist party and the SWP often had the Union Jack flags on their manifesto