European championships 2020 thread (4 Viewers)

CJ_covblaze

Well-Known Member
I would rather see James (or Henderson for that matter) out for JWP but can see why all 4 right backs are in there. All 4 have differing qualities and can play elsewhere. Other than those two I’m struggling to work out what else I’d change.
 

CJ_covblaze

Well-Known Member
But he should be getting his team ready not fucking about with players not going 🤣

The issue is the amount of players available to him for tomorrow. It’s not ideal but makes sense to use who is available.
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
He plays right back for Klopp in what was the best team in Europe last season, can't be that bad!

He may do but he is still not good enough defensively and would likely be exposed against good international teams.
 

Terry Gibson's perm

Well-Known Member
And yet he's starting him tomorrow.

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Is Henderson fit enough to play 90 tomorrow and I guess it limits the risk to the first team if you pick players you aren’t going to use in the tournament
 

Frostie

Well-Known Member
Only for new injuries isn’t it?

Injury, illness or Covid contact.
Nothing that says 'new' injury though. If he decides someone like Henderson or Maguire won't be 100% then he could change them. Not that he will but it allows flexibility.

More likely is if someone gets injured in training or the friendlies then Lingard/Ward-Prowse etc. will be ready to step in. Fair play to them.
 
D

Deleted member 11652

Guest
Injury, illness or Covid contact.
Nothing that says 'new' injury though. If he decides someone like Henderson or Maguire won't be 100% then he could change them. Not that he will but it allows flexibility.

More likely is if someone gets injured in training or the friendlies then Lingard/Ward-Prowse etc. will be ready to step in. Fair play to them.

Southgate said himself it’s new injuries and he used Maguire and Henderson as examples of players he couldn’t withdraw for their current injury
 

Frostie

Well-Known Member
Southgate said himself it’s new injuries and he used Maguire and Henderson as examples of players he couldn’t withdraw for their current injury

Did he? I know he said he was taking those 2 regardless as he wants their experience & thinks they can feature at some point.

The rules definitely don't state 'new' injuries.

 

Wyken Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Anyone injured at the time of selection should not be picked.

What's the point? They might recover from injury but they are not going to be mentally or physically ready for a tournament

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skybluegod

Well-Known Member
Best possible squad in my opinion.

The golden generation was blessed with a world class spine and not much going on around it to supplement it.

Now we're top heavy with loads of exciting attacking riches but missing IMO a DM, CB and GK.

TBD Declan rice is a great DM. Had a really good season but I worry in general about depth in the deeper midfield roles with only Henderson and Mount the only other actually decent options.

Dean Henderson is a good keeper but this tournament is too soon so unfortunately it looks like Pickford is number 1 which is shocking really.

Would feel a lot more confident at CB as well if Joe Gomez was there but it looks awfully week especially if Maguire is out too think it will be ripped apart by stronger teams.

Although looking forward we could have a very good team in 4 years time.
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Spot on. I'm not a Southgate fan & he'll get crucified if he plays 2 x CDM's but, he almost has to in order to protect the defence which is so, so weak.
People think it's just throw the best players on the pitch & they will automatically win it all like it's FUT. Never going to happen.

Don’t think it’s that as much as it’s ‘play to your strengths’. In setting up the way he does our defence still makes howlers but the attacking players are left to work miracles. Harry Maguire will do what he does whether there’s two holding midfielders or not.
 

Frostie

Well-Known Member
Don’t think it’s that as much as it’s ‘play to your strengths’. In setting up the way he does our defence still makes howlers but the attacking players are left to work miracles. Harry Maguire will do what he does whether there’s two holding midfielders or not.

Sure & we should certainly play on the front foot by all means, but you've got to also protect against your deficiencies. Teams that win tournaments are nearly always defensively sound first & foremost. We saw it ourselves with City, Robins had to be more pragmatic as we were shipping goals for fun & he corrected it, even though it stifled us a little offensively.

Harry Maguire is an excellent centre back but his weakness is clearly pace/agility so you can't really play a system that will leave him exposed to balls in behind etc. You either try to prevent those balls by dropping deeper which creates it's own problems, put an extra man in Midfield or, this is where the possibility of the added pace of Walker in a back 3 comes in again.
If it's Rice & Henderson/Bellingham I don't have too much problem with that, none of them are Makelele type sitting CDMs only influencing the game defensively, they are all technically very good & can play progressive passes into the forwards.

Likewise up front. Playing to your strengths isn't throwing the best players on to the pitch & hope they work it out for themselves. You've got to think how it will actually work from a tactical viewpoint.
Most people would probably (rightly) argue the players most deserving to support Kane are Foden & Grealish. That creates problems though as you don't have any runners. Kane drops deep to get on the ball & Foden/Grealish aren't the types to make runs in behind - they want the ball to feet to make things happen. For this reason, although both out of form, you're almost certainly going to need one of Rashford or Sterling to start.

Whatever he does is going to be interesting to watch & he's going to get pilloried by fans regardless which is fine, it's part & parcel of the job.
The one thing I do have a problem with is the constant media haranguing, not just of Southgate but practically every manager we've ever had. I see it's come out this morning that TAA was always going to be in the squad & was told 3 weeks ago yet the media concoct a story that he's not just to whip everyone into an anti Southgate frenzy & undermine the manager's relationship with the players.
How can that be anything but counter productive?
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Sure & we should certainly play on the front foot by all means, but you've got to also protect against your deficiencies. Teams that win tournaments are nearly always defensively sound first & foremost. We saw it ourselves with City, Robins had to be more pragmatic as we were shipping goals for fun & he corrected it, even though it stifled us a little offensively.

Harry Maguire is an excellent centre back but his weakness is clearly pace/agility so you can't really play a system that will leave him exposed to balls in behind etc. You either try to prevent those balls by dropping deeper which creates it's own problems, put an extra man in Midfield or, this is where the possibility of the added pace of Walker in a back 3 comes in again.
If it's Rice & Henderson/Bellingham I don't have too much problem with that, none of them are Makelele type sitting CDMs only influencing the game defensively, they are all technically very good & can play progressive passes into the forwards.

Likewise up front. Playing to your strengths isn't throwing the best players on to the pitch & hope they work it out for themselves. You've got to think how it will actually work from a tactical viewpoint.
Most people would probably (rightly) argue the players most deserving to support Kane are Foden & Grealish. That creates problems though as you don't have any runners. Kane drops deep to get on the ball & Foden/Grealish aren't the types to make runs in behind - they want the ball to feet to make things happen. For this reason, although both out of form, you're almost certainly going to need one of Rashford or Sterling to start.

Whatever he does is going to be interesting to watch & he's going to get pilloried by fans regardless which is fine, it's part & parcel of the job.
The one thing I do have a problem with is the constant media haranguing, not just of Southgate but practically every manager we've ever had. I see it's come out this morning that TAA was always going to be in the squad & was told 3 weeks ago yet the media concoct a story that he's not just to whip everyone into an anti Southgate frenzy & undermine the manager's relationship with the players.
How can that be anything but counter productive?

The press have never really been on the side of the national team, at least not for as long as I can remember. Ultimately it seems to me our weaknesses are in central defence and in goal and yes I agree any team needs balance and can't just go full Keegan. Just as a spectator the dial seems to be cranked too far in the safety first direction which produces some very turgid football indeed. Even then as we saw against Poland we still made a horrendous mistake anyway and needed a Maguire screamer to bail us out. It can be bizarrely more risky to play for the 1-0
 

Frostie

Well-Known Member
The press have never really been on the side of the national team, at least not for as long as I can remember. Ultimately it seems to me our weaknesses are in central defence and in goal and yes I agree any team needs balance and can't just go full Keegan. Just as a spectator the dial seems to be cranked too far in the safety first direction which produces some very turgid football indeed. Even then as we saw against Poland we still made a horrendous mistake anyway and needed a Maguire screamer to bail us out. It can be bizarrely more risky to play for the 1-0

Can't disagree with that & although I'm defending Southgate to a point, I don't really rate him as a manager. My point is the team selection & formation on the face of it aren't the issue, it's how he plays them. Within those systems he still tends to go much too negative thinking that will cover up the individual deficiencies. The Stones mistake was a shocking individual error (even though Pope's pass wasn't ideal), can't really eliminate that but how he sets us up actually exacerbates issues because we spend too much time defending.

When playing a back 3 you need your wing-backs as high & wide as possible & they should spend just as much time attacking as defending. When we played it vs Belgium, and even moreso vs Denmark it was literally a flat back 5 (with a RB at LWB) + 2 x CDMs that were instructed to sit & screen. That, as you rightly said, just leaves 3 players to try & concoct something offensively & produces dire football.

Hopefully he's learned some lessons from that.
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Can't disagree with that & although I'm defending Southgate to a point, I don't really rate him as a manager. My point is the team selection & formation on the face of it aren't the issue, it's how he plays them. Within those systems he still tends to go much too negative thinking that will cover up the individual deficiencies. The Stones mistake was a shocking individual error (even though Pope's pass wasn't ideal), can't really eliminate that but how he sets us up actually exacerbates issues because we spend too much time defending.

When playing a back 3 you need your wing-backs as high & wide as possible & they should spend just as much time attacking as defending. When we played it vs Belgium, and even moreso vs Denmark it was literally a flat back 5 (with a RB at LWB) + 2 x CDMs that were instructed to sit & screen. That, as you rightly said, just leaves 3 players to try & concoct something offensively & produces dire football.

Hopefully he's learned some lessons from that.

I do agree that the formation matters less than how the team is generally instructed to play. We will struggle to keep clean sheets against the world's best sides when our weak spot is the heart of defence, but we definitely have the ability to hurt any side too. Against the 2nd tier nations and below it's quite painful to watch and we could certainly afford to be more expansive.

As I hope we will be against Scotland rather than requiring a last minute equaliser to save our blushes
 

skybluegod

Well-Known Member
I think he’s good, if he a played for a lesser club he wouldn’t be as scrutinised.

He's not a bad player but he's not an £80 million player and he's not a world class player. Which is what I mean when I say it says a lot about other players in the team when he's by far seen as the best CB (stones imo only good when with a world class player next to him). I'd say it's the weakest position on the pitch.
 

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