Fans Forum (4 Viewers)

dongonzalos · May 29, 2014

shmmeee said:
So what can be gleaned form these countless hours of Gold Star Superfan Forums is absolutely nothing of merit, no questions answered, no closer to knowing WTF is happening with the ground. No closer to any sign of investment in the team or the fanbase. No sign of anything other than a chance for a lot of allegations to be put across in a private arena, with the knowledge that they will be repeated well away from the clutches of lawyers 5 minutes later. No clarity on the old GS switcharoo. Basically nothing the fans want answered, just more talking points Sisu want put across?

Meanwhile, I hear Joe Murphy's off to Huddersfield. So at least the owners of our club haven't got anything important they're missing for this farce.

Never considered myself a superfan

I contacted them asking for answers so not sure how I fit into that category.

On the team they said they all realised that was not enough depth in each position last year. That this was SP's decision as he wanted a small tight nit group. After the injuries and transfer request they realised they need 3 players in each position.

Separately they talked about the academy model taking 3 years before you have a conveyor belt of a player at every level waiting to step up. Each level will play in the same way and ethos of the first team.

dongonzalos · May 29, 2014

Buster said:
"The JR isnt going to get us back to the Ricoh "
"A return to the Ricoh is not an option"
Did no one think to ask them why they have twice pushed for a Judicial Review or do we now just ignore these dubious soundbites

There is only one reason you do

oldskyblue58 · May 29, 2014

dongonzalos said:
Separately they talked about the academy model taking 3 years before you have a conveyor belt of a player at every level waiting to step up. Each level will play in the same way and ethos of the first team.

we've not got any decent defenders coming through then .............. :laugh:

Bennets Afro · May 29, 2014

The clause was a pre- emption right.

- a veto is very simple. Higgs says to CCC: "SISU have offered us £x million for our share of ACL"; CCC could say "we are veto'ing this - there will be no deal" A pre-emption right is: "OK, if SISU have offered you £x million, then we will offer you the same price and you have to sell to us (CCC), not to SISU".

I have no idea why the club didn't know about this

ccfcway · May 29, 2014

Bennets Afro said:
Also JS was in Cov as she had spent time with SG from the stadium group.

Finally we now might get to find out what colour these curtains are going to be now that Joy is hands on with it

RegTheDonk · May 29, 2014

Bennets Afro said:
I attended last night. Nothing new really apart from what Lord Nampil says. The council always had the power of veto, but they also had some clause (not in the contract) that enabled them to match any offers for the higgs 50%. I forgot what therm used was. The club only recently found out about this.

Bennets Afro said:
The clause was a pre- emption right.

- a veto is very simple. Higgs says to CCC: "SISU have offered us £x million for our share of ACL"; CCC could say "we are veto'ing this - there will be no deal" A pre-emption right is: "OK, if SISU have offered you £x million, then we will offer you the same price and you have to sell to us (CCC), not to SISU".

I have no idea why the club didn't know about this

Perhaps this is something that was agreed at a later date - maybe this strengthens SISU arguement?

More likely something they failed to pick up in the due diligence process.

Or [shock horror] Appleton actually discovered something when rummaging through the Limited paperwork with his forensic GI Joe microscope.

shmmeee said:
So what can be gleaned form these countless hours of Gold Star Superfan Forums is absolutely nothing of merit, no questions answered, no closer to knowing WTF is happening with the ground. No closer to any sign of investment in the team or the fanbase. No sign of anything other than a chance for a lot of allegations to be put across in a private arena, with the knowledge that they will be repeated well away from the clutches of lawyers 5 minutes later. No clarity on the old GS switcharoo. Basically nothing the fans want answered, just more talking points Sisu want put across?.....

Joke dig asside, I have to agree. Its nice that they will set something up for those that take the effort to contact them, but it seems the same old PR bollocks with no concrete answers. If anything of note had come out, it'd have its own thread here and probably front page of the Telegraph. Excellent way for SISU to try and appease the fans and try and get them on side though - they've obviously learned from last year when it was just Fisher spouting off and treating anyone who challenged him with derision.

DazzleTommyDazzle · May 29, 2014

Bennets Afro said:
The clause was a pre- emption right.

- a veto is very simple. Higgs says to CCC: "SISU have offered us £x million for our share of ACL"; CCC could say "we are veto'ing this - there will be no deal" A pre-emption right is: "OK, if SISU have offered you £x million, then we will offer you the same price and you have to sell to us (CCC), not to SISU".

I have no idea why the club didn't know about this

I recall that at the time I last studied company law (back in the early 80's) it was pretty standard for private companies to have clauses in their Articles of Association that limited the rights of shareholders to sell their shares to third parties. If this is what is being referred to, it could easily be found by checking the document at Companies House.

Otherwise it could be a term of a private Shareholders' Agreement. I've had some (limited) dealings with private equity and have seen clauses that give pre-emption rights in the agreements that I've seen.

dongonzalos · May 29, 2014

But are the council allowed to own all of a private company?

oldskyblue58 · May 29, 2014

As they own all of North Coventry Holdings Limited you would have to think they can (NCH owns 100% Coventry North Regeneration Ltd which in turn owns 50% of ACL)

dongonzalos · May 29, 2014

oldskyblue58 said:
As they own all of North Coventry Holdings Limited you would have to think they can

Oh I thought there was some regulation to say they couldn't own all of ACL back at the time and that's why the charity got involved.

duffer · May 29, 2014

dongonzalos said:
Oh I thought there was some regulation to say they couldn't own all of ACL back at the time and that's why the charity got involved.

My understanding was that CCFC were given 50% of ACL but sold it to Higgs because they were, basically, bust.

dongonzalos · May 29, 2014

The Gentleman said:
Dallas, Dynasty or Peggy from Eastenders............

More the wives of Orange County

dongonzalos · May 29, 2014

duffer said:
My understanding was that CCFC were given 50% of ACL but sold it to Higgs because they were, basically, bust.

Yes that correct but I thought incorrectly it seems that legally the council could not buy the lot. That why the charity helped out.

rondog1973 · May 29, 2014

valiant15 said:
Ccfc4l, dont worry about it fella, youll be ok because you're staunchly anti Coventry council,youll never get a ban from nick and co for that. I got a ban because I slagged of the disciples beloved tim fisher. We can't have these nasty folks doing things like that on a football forum can we, after all its not as if they treat us like shit is it. Strangely enough it let's me log in now and again,not that id bother posting much now anyway. They might as well rename this site the rabid anti council talk or gmk2.

Don and co, dont let that slimy bastard fisher pull the wool over your eyes. There never will be a new ground, hopefully when they lose the judicial review they'll piss off back to the sewer they crawled out from.

Did the same with my good friend thaiskyblue, some being more equal than others and all that....

duffer · May 29, 2014

RegTheDonk said:
Perhaps this is something that was agreed at a later date - maybe this strengthens SISU arguement?

More likely something they failed to pick up in the due diligence process.

Or [shock horror] Appleton actually discovered something when rummaging through the Limited paperwork with his forensic GI Joe microscope.

Joke dig asside, I have to agree. Its nice that they will set something up for those that take the effort to contact them, but it seems the same old PR bollocks with no concrete answers. If anything of note had come out, it'd have its own thread here and probably front page of the Telegraph. Excellent way for SISU to try and appease the fans and try and get them on side though - they've obviously learned from last year when it was just Fisher spouting off and treating anyone who challenged him with derision.

Hi Reg, I think the stuff about the veto and first-refusal relates to ACL, so I don't think that either the due diligence or Appleton would necessarily have been concerned with it. In truth, and imho, it's a bit of a red-herring - I don't think that there's any evidence that either would have come into play to stop SISU doing a deal with Higgs had those negotiations had been successful.

As far as JS and TF talking to fans, I'm all in favour of that. I have my suspicions as to motive, but at least they're talking.

I just hope they're listening too. If they are, surely they're getting the message that regardless of where fans think the blame lies, they will get a lot more support if they come back to the Ricoh and negotiate (or build a new stadium) from there.

Jack Griffin · May 29, 2014

RegTheDonk said:
Excellent way for SISU to try and appease the fans and try and get them on side though - they've obviously learned from last year when it was just Fisher spouting off and treating anyone who challenged him with derision.

I'm thinking this is too little, too late.. all I've seen is a series of cock-ups, culminating in the disastrous decision to move the club out of Coventry & piss off the fans, ie their customers, what business owner in their right mind would do that!

ccfcway · May 29, 2014

oldskyblue58 said:
NCH owns 100% Coventry North Regeneration Ltd which in turn owns 50% of ACL

well that clears that up !

dongonzalos · May 29, 2014

duffer said:
Hi Reg, I think the stuff about the veto and first-refusal relates to ACL, so I don't think that either the due diligence or Appleton would necessarily have been concerned with it. In truth, and imho, it's a bit of a red-herring - I don't think that there's any evidence that either would have come into play to stop SISU doing a deal with Higgs had those negotiations had been successful.

As far as JS and TF talking to fans, I'm all in favour of that. I have my suspicions as to motive, but at least they're talking.

I just hope they're listening too. If they are, surely they're getting the message that regardless of where fans think the blame lies, they will get a lot more support if they come back to the Ricoh and negotiate (or build a new stadium) from there.

Bang on

Sky Blues · May 30, 2014

Bennets Afro said:
I attended last night. Nothing new really apart from what Lord Nampil says. The council always had the power of veto, but they also had some clause (not in the contract) that enabled them to match any offers for the higgs 50%. I forgot what therm used was. The club only recently found out about this.
Nothing was said OSB about the £590k. We had about 1.5 hours and they announced after an hour that JS had to leave to catch a train so a lot of questions wasn't answered.
One thing they said about the JR is it isn't going to get us back to the Ricoh win/ lose. Just all the facts about what has gone on will be out there for people to decide and hopefully put pressure on the council to do a deal.
I'm not convinced about a new stadium but we do need to be back at the Ricoh next season as I don't think the club will survive another 2/3 years at sixfields

A few questions for yourself, Lord Nampil and Don regarding the "put pressure on the council to do a deal" line if I may:

Is that a rental deal or a purchase deal?

Why are they suggesting the onus would be on the council to approach Sisu and not on Sisu to approach the council?

What good will it do to pressure the council if it turns out the council legally cannot do the deal that Sisu want?

And why are they talking about a deal for the Ricoh if the Neverneverland stadium is actually going ahead? I'm still unclear about the dynamic between plan A and plan B. Did the conversation make it any clearer for you?

skybluetony176 · May 30, 2014

I'm confused on this whole plan A and plan B thing now.

Does this sound about right? Plan A) throw enough shit until something sticks. Plan B) if plan A is failing see plan A.

torchomatic · May 30, 2014

He;s an idiot. He went to a stadium meeting because I gave him my season ticket details. It seems OK if he does something.

And anyway, Nick was pulling Dongo's leg as that was he was saying after the last meetings. That obviously went over schmmee's pretty little head.

covmark said:
Jesus, did someone piss on your weetabix this morning?

dongonzalos · May 30, 2014

torchomatic said:
He;s an idiot. He went to a stadium meeting because I gave him my season ticket details. It seems OK if he does something.

And anyway, Nick was pulling Dongo's leg as that was he was saying after the last meetings. That obviously went over schmmee's pretty little head.

I will have to pull you up there Torch.
He was pulling my leg and I don't have a problem with that.

However I never actually said that.
All I said was how are these meeting happening and why isn't anyone telling us about what was said afterwards. Which I still state was quite a reasonable question. I also still find it bizzare that people kept it to themselves afterwards, but each to their own.

Which is why for my own meetings I asked before does anyone want anything asking if I secure a meeting and posted what was said as soon as I could afterwards.

I haven't taken a load of abuse and TBF if I did I could handle it.

Sky Blues · May 30, 2014

Don, Bennet's Afro, while you're here, did you see my questions on the last page of this thread? Thanks!

dongonzalos · May 30, 2014

Sky Blues said:
Don, Bennet's Afro, while you're here, did you see my questions on the last page of this thread? Thanks!

Will have a look now

dongonzalos · May 30, 2014

Sky Blues said:
A few questions for yourself, Lord Nampil and Don regarding the "put pressure on the council to do a deal" line if I may:

Is that a rental deal or a purchase deal?

(They are claiming the council won't talk to them at all. So the idea is a fans group to get the two talking full stop.

I personally didn't get involved in that conversation as I don't believe after the JR if JS picked up the phone she would be ignored. If they dropped the JR the phone would also be answered. )

Why are they suggesting the onus would be on the council to approach Sisu and not on Sisu to approach the council?

(As above)

What good will it do to pressure the council if it turns out the council legally cannot do the deal that Sisu want?

(No good SISU would need to move their goal posts)

And why are they talking about a deal for the Ricoh if the Neverneverland stadium is actually going ahead? I'm still unclear about the dynamic between plan A and plan B. Did the conversation make it any clearer for you?

They were very clear saying there is no deal to be had for the Ricoh.

(However they liked the idea of a fans group pushing the council to talk.
They are still going ahead with the JR
They won't make a public offer to temporarily rent at the Ricoh.
They all hesitated when asked are you saying you will never come back to the table.

So in my opinion talking about the new stadium is to apply pressure ( just my opinion)
Some came out if that meeting believing there is no deal to be done for the Ricoh so it is just my option that there is )

shmmeee · May 30, 2014

torchomatic said:
He;s an idiot. He went to a stadium meeting because I gave him my season ticket details. It seems OK if he does something.

And anyway, Nick was pulling Dongo's leg as that was he was saying after the last meetings. That obviously went over schmmee's pretty little head.

No, I find it stunning that you don't understand why a lot of fans (the majority, read the comments on the CET article) are put out by these meetings.

The stadium meeting was fine. Advertised, clear, open to all. This is the exact opposite. My issue is with a club that clearly don't see how dividing the fans is the last thing that's needed right now.

If they've got time for these meetings they've got time for the open forum they promised, or to, you know, knock up a press release.]

Except the fact is they're nothing to do with fan engagement, they're to do with getting certain rumours out into the public domain with no recourse.

But I guess that went over your pretty little head.

Sky Blues · May 30, 2014

Thanks Don.

Rob S · May 31, 2014

Excellent work Dongo. And to those who are complaining about not being in on the 'secret society', why not do what Dongo did and just get in touch with TF or ML and you can harangue them in person rather than bitch about it on here all the time?

Then again, I've got a sneaking suspicion that there's a few people that would rather just complain than actually get some answers or move things on.

Overall, there seems to be an overriding desire from all fans for the warring parties to get back around the table and just negotiate. Looks like the window of opportunity is nearly painted shut for getting it sorted pre-JR with 10 days to go so see you all in Brum.

(There's a couple of cracking pubs near the courts so it won't be a wasted trip

Nick · May 31, 2014

shmmeee said:
No, I find it stunning that you don't understand why a lot of fans (the majority, read the comments on the CET article) are put out by these meetings.

The stadium meeting was fine. Advertised, clear, open to all. This is the exact opposite. My issue is with a club that clearly don't see how dividing the fans is the last thing that's needed right now.

If they've got time for these meetings they've got time for the open forum they promised, or to, you know, knock up a press release.]

Except the fact is they're nothing to do with fan engagement, they're to do with getting certain rumours out into the public domain with no recourse.

But I guess that went over your pretty little head.

How is it dividing fans if they will meet any fans who want to?

Have you read the comments on the cet half the time on other articles, they are clearly misinformed at the best of times.

I could totally understand if they said they will only meet people who back them, but they aren't.

Brighton Sky Blue · May 31, 2014

Rob S said:
Excellent work Dongo. And to those who are complaining about not being in on the 'secret society', why not do what Dongo did and just get in touch with TF or ML and you can harangue them in person rather than bitch about it on here all the time?

Then again, I've got a sneaking suspicion that there's a few people that would rather just complain than actually get some answers or move things on.

Overall, there seems to be an overriding desire from all fans for the warring parties to get back around the table and just negotiate. Looks like the window of opportunity is nearly painted shut for getting it sorted pre-JR with 10 days to go so see you all in Brum.

(There's a couple of cracking pubs near the courts so it won't be a wasted trip

If either party is willing to make the 6 hour journey up to see me then hats off

blueflint · May 31, 2014

Nick said:
How is it dividing fans if they will meet any fans who want to?

Have you read the comments on the cet half the time on other articles, they are clearly misinformed at the best of times.

I could totally understand if they said they will only meet people who back them, but they aren't.

they have made no attempt to get in touch with me

Rob S · May 31, 2014

Brighton Sky Blue said:
If either party is willing to make the 6 hour journey up to see me then hats off

There's always email and telephone for the distance-challenged

letsallsingtogether · May 31, 2014

I was at the meeting the other night and to be fair all the supporters seem to be anti sisu and ll just wanted us back at the Ricoh.
Joy came over really well she said I know nothing about football but everything about Football business. Shee believes that she could make te club lots of money and that the future is with the academy in the long term.
They said the Ricoh was being run poorly and that there were not enough car park spaces, even tho that was a maximum they were allowed to have due to government guidelines which they also didn't realise ?

Rusty Trombone · May 31, 2014

letsallsingtogether said:
I was at the meeting the other night and to be fair all the supporters seem to be anti sisu and ll just wanted us back at the Ricoh.
Joy came over really well she said I know nothing about football but everything about Football business. Shee believes that she could make te club lots of money and that the future is with the academy in the long term.
They said the Ricoh was being run poorly and that there were not enough car park spaces, even tho that was a maximum they were allowed to have due to government guidelines which they also didn't realise ?

If the future is the Academy why did they risk it's future by moving out over their refusal to pay £20k maintenance? I guess the answer is obvious to someone like Joy who knows everything about football business.

Grendel · May 31, 2014

letsallsingtogether said:
I was at the meeting the other night and to be fair all the supporters seem to be anti sisu and ll just wanted us back at the Ricoh.
Joy came over really well she said I know nothing about football but everything about Football business. Shee believes that she could make te club lots of money and that the future is with the academy in the long term.
They said the Ricoh was being run poorly and that there were not enough car park spaces, even tho that was a maximum they were allowed to have due to government guidelines which they also didn't realise ?

The problem with sepalla and her credibility is her performance when the initial takeover happened. She let others run the business who were completely unfit for purpose. The ranson years were profligate with no benefit and the appointment of ken deliu was ridiculous given his prior form.

I have no doubt that seppella is an extremely capable businesswomen who is far more capable than her adversories in the battle. However, the hands off strategy deployed in the early years was bewildering and catastrophic. She needs to explain these failings.

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