Match Thread Fleetwood Town vs. Coventry City Match Thread - Tuesday 27th Nov (14 Viewers)

[Magwitch]

I’m not going to beat up Chaplin for missing chances so much, granted he should probably have half a dozen more goals to his name but he’s still young and gaining experience on a plus side he’s in the positions to score, last year it was after Xmas Mark McNulty got really into goal scoring mode. As for missing a penalty it happens

 

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[steve82]

I am very critical of Doyle and not so much of Bayliss. It's not blinkers though. Is he as effective around the box as last year when he predominantly played at RM against teams who were mostly happy with a point and knowing he had 2 DMs behind him? No.
This year though Bayliss is being asked to play as a box to box midfielder, effectively alone in central midfield, in his first full season and at a level higher than last year. It's a mammoth ask of a 19 year old and to say he's simply not performing is incredible. That he has the talent to at least partially make that work in games is amazing. He will look a much, much better player with a partner alongside him that has more than 1 gear, actually wins some ball (Doyle just picks up loose ball) and will regularly move and want the ball beyond the half way line.

While Bayliss is having to pick the ball up 30 yards from his own goal with nothing simple in front of him, his performances will remain inconsistent with a capped effectiveness.

I’m not being critical of Bayliss because he’s not tearing the league up, he’s young and adapting you have to allow that time for him to develop.

What I’m being critical of is his application in games at times that gets unnoticed, that’s not the step up or the Doyle effect on him that seems the obvious thing to say.

Several times in the 1st half against Peterborough Doyle was waving Bayliss up off the toes of the defence, he was mentally switched off and not aware. Many more times Doyle was ahead of him. The second half he switched on and looked a glimpse of what the future can be.

I agree Doyle’s slowing now, it’s his last season without a doubt being a first team regular but it’s also MR tactics that makes him and his partners in the middle play deep.

We need more and a better balance from the wingers to be our attacking intent, Hiwula isn’t the answer and he’s then exposing Doyle defensively down that left.


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[steve82]

I agree that this formation would be better than having Hiwula on the left and Bayliss in the centre. Thomas and Bayliss could be given some freedom to swap round occasionally to confuse the full-backs.

The other problem that Robins needs to address is our pattern of having a good first half, (but not scoring), and then coming out looking leggy and off the pace and getting over-run in the second half. Opposition managers are beginning to recognise this weakness and exploit it. MR needs to develop a strategy to deal with this PDQ. Having said that, I'm not sure what to suggest. Any ideas?

Personally (we’re all managers and can fix things in effortlessly)you could make many changes.

One thing is the presence of Tom Davies in the side is massive. We miss his ability in the air in both boxes. You only have to look at last night after his introduction how much more of a attacking threat we were at set pieces. We’ve lacked that all month, and a few goals in October came from him being involved.






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[CJ_covblaze]

Their keeper was given motm

I know and I was talking about ours. Granted Cairns did make a couple of good saves and didn’t really do a lot wrong. Burge up the other end made about 5 or 6 really good saves. A couple of those were top draw. He was probably 7 or 8/10. The rest were 3s or 4s at best.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

People accepting lower mid-table is not good enough for me.

Robins has been the first city manager in what, 7/8 years to be backed with a healthy transfer kitty? He's threw money on signing a bag of shite strikers. He's brought in Ogogo and Brown who were gambles based on their performances before injuries.

All the teams we have played seem to have a forward who is a key player for them. Last night for example Fleetwood had Ched Evans, a player proven to score goals. We've spent money on unproven players with hope that they come good eventually. That would be fine if we had at least one proven forward to rely on.

24th in L1 and relegation to 10th in less than 2 years suggests you’re talking nonsense. Considering the last 10-15 games have been difficult, we’ve done v well.

We’ve invested in young players because it seems for once, we actually have a medium to long term plan.

 

[Esoterica]

I think that's what I'd do next game, with Bakayoko in for JCH.
There's a lot of similarities between this season and last and McNulty wasn't doing the business at this stage and I'm hoping that Chaplins season will take a similar trajectory so I'd leave him in.

If we do end up rejigging the midfield I'd give JCH another go. Was fiercely defensive of the criticism Biamou got last year because of the role he was asked to play. No coincidence that Beavon before him struggled and now JCH is too. The position he's having to play is a write off in footballing terms, just a hit and hope outlet while trying to occupy 2 CBs. Although he shouldn't be as a paid professional, I'm not surprised he looks demotivated for periods. Deserves another chance if we sort the underlying midfield formation issues out.

 

[clint van damme]

24th in L1 and relegation to 10th in less than 2 years suggests you’re talking nonsense. Considering the last 10-15 games have been difficult, we’ve done v well.

We’ve invested in young players because it seems for once, we actually have a medium to long term plan.

I agree with what you say, would have been happy with mid table at start of the season and 10th at this stage isn't a disaster but having seen spells of what we're capable of and seen our competitors I don't think hoping for a play off spot is unrealistic if we can iron out a few issues.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

If we do end up rejigging the midfield I'd give JCH another go. Was fiercely defensive of the criticism Biamou got last year because of the role he was asked to play. No coincidence that Beavon before him struggled and now JCH is too. The position he's having to play is a write off in footballing terms, just a hit and hope outlet while trying to occupy 2 CBs. Although he shouldn't be as a paid professional, I'm not surprised he looks demotivated for periods. Deserves another chance if we sort the underlying midfield formation issues out.

In what way is struggling? He’s consistently one of our best players on the pitch. He’ll score at least 10 goals this season.

To get more out of him, we need to cross the ball more, it’ll probably get more out of Chaplin too.

 

[bringbackrattles]

I’m not going to beat up Chaplin for missing chances so much, granted he should probably have half a dozen more goals to his name but he’s still young and gaining experience on a plus side he’s in the positions to score, last year it was after Xmas Mark McNulty got really into goal scoring mode. As for missing a penalty it happens

McNulty missed a last minute penalty at Leeds last night for Reading.

 

[Johhny Blue]

it took me a while to work this one out!

M.T.

 

[Johhny Blue]

like a penalty?

He meant the next next one

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

This has become an obsession for you.

Ponticelli has started 6 times for us. Six! It’s not a sample size worthy of comparing to McNulty’s. Chaplin has at least made 100+ appearances which makes a comparison a lot easier. If we want to look at goals per minute, Bakayoko has the strongest claim for a start on that basis.

Chaplin’s strike rate is 1 in 4, to say Ponticelli would do better in L1 is a massive leap of faith for someone that inexperienced. If Ponticelli can score 1 in 4 in L2, that’d be very good.

If you think it’s wise to have trusted a talented, but still very raw 19 year to replace McNulty, then your judgement is questionable, at best. He doesn’t need to be thrusted into the first team.

You’ve barely given Chaplin time to settle in.

I bloody love Chaplin, not quite sure what you're talking about mate! I just respond to the subject when it's raised and I see it, making the same point. Not sure how a handful of posts counts as an obsession! If I'm obsessed about anything, it's that they don't make cheese flavoured Snaps anymore.

PS 6 starts, 4 goals.....

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I agree with what you say, would have been happy with mid table at start of the season and 10th at this stage isn't a disaster but having seen spells of what we're capable of and seen our competitors I don't think hoping for a play off spot is unrealistic if we can iron out a few issues.

It’s doable, looking st our results against the top 6 suggests that. However, to have playoffs as a minimum expectation is totally unrealistic. That was the salient point.

The lack of patience with this young team is astounding. Some people just aren’t seeing the bigger picture at all.

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

Forgot we were playing and missed the whole thing. Think I was fortunate.

Me too! Was sad that I had missed it, then thought "for the best..." when I saw the result.

 

[Gazolba]

I’m not going to beat up Chaplin for missing chances so much, granted he should probably have half a dozen more goals to his name but he’s still young and gaining experience on a plus side he’s in the positions to score, last year it was after Xmas Mark McNulty got really into goal scoring mode. As for missing a penalty it happens

I don't buy this 'too young' and 'gaining experience'. If you are good enough, you can do the basics of the job regardless of age or experience.
If you can't control the ball, or kick it straight, or have mental issues regarding pressure, you'll never be any good.
I don't think it's wise to assume he'll suddenly come good just like McNulty did.
Maybe we should let him come good in the U23s.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I bloody love Chaplin, not quite sure what you're talking about mate! I just respond to the subject when it's raised and I see it, making the same point. Not sure how a handful of posts counts as an obsession! If I'm obsessed about anything, it's that they don't make cheese flavoured Snaps anymore.

PS 6 starts, 4 goals.....

You regularly bring up this point over and over. Constantly comparing JP and Chaplin, to what end?

I’m aware he’s scored 4 goals from 6 starts, a fact you’ve regurgitated several times. Firstly, it’s such a small amount games, it’s irrelevant. Secondly, two of those goals against non-league opposition in the FA Cup. Starting week in, week out in L1 is a completely different proposition.

If Ponticelli really is that good, he’ll score that volume of goals at Macclesfield. Unlike what Portsmouth did with Chaplin, we’re giving JP the opportunity to develop as a starter in L2. This is inherently more desirable for him and the club in terms of his development. Throwing him into the first team, however, is not.

 

[Houchens Head]

Our poor recent run (after that great winning streak!) has gotta be down to MR getting October Manager of the Month! Let's face it, everyone says that it's a curse on the next few games and look what's happened!
November's results:
Accrington Stanley (Home) Draw 1-1
Burton Albion (Away) Lose 1-0
Peterbor' (Home) Draw 1-1
Fleetwood (Away) Lose 3-0
Add to the mix, the FA Cup result on the 10th, a 3-2 loss to Walsall and it kinda makes you wonder eh?
Now, I'm not normally superstitious but this is all very strange...…..
Can the Manager of the Month award be refused? :stop:

 

[Otis]

M.T.

MT caused me so many problems a few years back.

Was a stock controller and had to validate some stock checks done by the warehouse staff. On some items we were showing stock, but by the location quantity this particular warehouse op had written MT.

Kept seeing MT. Must have put that down about 18 or 19 times.

It was a Sunday and I was the only person in the entire warehouse and I must have spent at least 25 mins trying to work out what MT meant.

Was driving me crazy.

Found out the next day of course.

 

[Houchens Head]

MT caused me so many problems a few years back.

Was a stock controller and had to validate some stock checks done by the warehouse staff. On some items we were showing stock, but by the location quantity this particular warehouse op had written MT.

Kept seeing MT. Must have put that down about 18 or 19 times.

It was a Sunday and I was the only person in the entire warehouse and I must have spent at least 25 mins trying to work out what MT meant.

Was driving me crazy.

Found out the next day of course.

The words "dropped" and "penny" spring to mind!

 

[clint van damme]

I don't buy this 'too young' and 'gaining experience'. If you are good enough, you can do the basics of the job regardless of age or experience.
If you can't control the ball, or kick it straight, or have mental issues regarding pressure, you'll never be any good.
I don't think it's wise to assume he'll suddenly come good just like McNulty did.
Maybe we should let him come good in the U23s.

I think Harry Kanes, (and others), time spent in the lower leagues proves that "too young" and "gaining experience" are valid statements

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Our poor recent run (after that great winning streak!) has gotta be down to MR getting October Manager of the Month! Let's face it, everyone says that it's a curse on the next few games and look what's happened!
November's results:
Accrington Stanley (Home) Draw 1-1
Burton Albion (Away) Lose 1-0
Peterbor' (Home) Draw 1-1
Fleetwood (Away) Lose 3-0
Add to the mix, the FA Cup result on the 10th, a 3-2 loss to Walsall and it kinda makes you wonder eh?
Now, I'm not normally superstitious but this is all very strange...…..
Can the Manager of the Month award be refused? :stop:

The reason it's known as a 'curse' us because good runs don't last forever, especially when, at the time, you're a lower mid-table side.

I'd take the two home draws against playoff quality opposition, and in fairness those are two tough away games. It really isn't as bad as some are making it.

 

[COVKIDSNEVERQUIT]

Too many fairies in the team.

Relegation looms! We're doomed I tells ya! DOOMED!!
View attachment 11041

 

[Esoterica]

So we struggle on the left, why not play Bayliss there? He can run well but too lightweight at the moment to play centre. Introduce Kelly or Ogogo in the centre to play out to Bayliss and Thomas.

I'd play Thomas on the left and Bayliss right I think. I don't think we're getting enough return from him cutting inside on his left foot, while a couple of his crosses have looked decent. Would have a look at how he does beating his fullback on the outside and crossing the ball into the box rather than dribbling it through. Might give our strikers the motivation to get into the box too knowing the ball is going to be delivered there.

 

[skybluegod]

I think Harry Kanes, (and others), time spent in the lower leagues proves that "too young" and "gaining experience" are valid statements

Don't mention Kane to Gazolba CVD, he will run off and not reply...

 

[clint van damme]

Don't mention Kane to Gazolba CVD, he will run off and not reply...

didn't know what you were referring to so did a search of his posts, he doesn't like Harry does he?!

 

[shmmeee]

If we do end up rejigging the midfield I'd give JCH another go. Was fiercely defensive of the criticism Biamou got last year because of the role he was asked to play. No coincidence that Beavon before him struggled and now JCH is too. The position he's having to play is a write off in footballing terms, just a hit and hope outlet while trying to occupy 2 CBs. Although he shouldn't be as a paid professional, I'm not surprised he looks demotivated for periods. Deserves another chance if we sort the underlying midfield formation issues out.

Don’t get this “as a paid professional” stuff. Anyone with any knowledge of HR will tell you just paying someone doesn’t guarantee productivity and a positive attitude. Pay is a hygiene factor (you’ll leave if it’s bad but you can’t make someone enjoy it more by increasing it) not a motivator, they are intrinsic things like feeing valued and aligning with the business mission. In footballing terms playing out of position or in a system that doesn’t benefit you is exactly what will demotivate a player. That’s not the players fault. That’s basic human psychology.

 

[robbiekeane]

Don’t get this “as a paid professional” stuff. Anyone with any knowledge of HR will tell you just paying someone doesn’t guarantee productivity and a positive attitude. Pay is a hygiene factor (you’ll leave if it’s bad but you can’t make someone enjoy it more by increasing it) not a motivator, they are intrinsic things like feeing valued and aligning with the business mission. In footballing terms playing out of position or in a system that doesn’t benefit you is exactly what will demotivate a player. That’s not the players fault. That’s basic human psychology.

I think the key word you missed from Esoterica's post is "looking".

 

[Covstu]

Don’t get this “as a paid professional” stuff. Anyone with any knowledge of HR will tell you just paying someone doesn’t guarantee productivity and a positive attitude. Pay is a hygiene factor (you’ll leave if it’s bad but you can’t make someone enjoy it more by increasing it) not a motivator, they are intrinsic things like feeing valued and aligning with the business mission. In footballing terms playing out of position or in a system that doesn’t benefit you is exactly what will demotivate a player. That’s not the players fault. That’s basic human psychology.

you will be quoting Maslow next!!!

 

[clint van damme]

you will be copying and pasting Maslow next!!!

fixed.

 

[steve82]

I'd play Thomas on the left and Bayliss right I think. I don't think we're getting enough return from him cutting inside on his left foot, while a couple of his crosses have looked decent. Would have a look at how he does beating his fullback on the outside and crossing the ball into the box rather than dribbling it through. Might give our strikers the motivation to get into the box too knowing the ball is going to be delivered there.

Spot on, I touched on this idea a few times as It looks to give us a better balance


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[fernandopartridge]

Don’t get this “as a paid professional” stuff. Anyone with any knowledge of HR will tell you just paying someone doesn’t guarantee productivity and a positive attitude. Pay is a hygiene factor (you’ll leave if it’s bad but you can’t make someone enjoy it more by increasing it) not a motivator, they are intrinsic things like feeing valued and aligning with the business mission. In footballing terms playing out of position or in a system that doesn’t benefit you is exactly what will demotivate a player. That’s not the players fault. That’s basic human psychology.

Good old Herzberg or is it Mintzberg?

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

You regularly bring up this point over and over. Constantly comparing JP and Chaplin, to what end?

I’m aware he’s scored 4 goals from 6 starts, a fact you’ve regurgitated several times. Firstly, it’s such a small amount games, it’s irrelevant. Secondly, two of those goals against non-league opposition in the FA Cup. Starting week in, week out in L1 is a completely different proposition.

If Ponticelli really is that good, he’ll score that volume of goals at Macclesfield. Unlike what Portsmouth did with Chaplin, we’re giving JP the opportunity to develop as a starter in L2. This is inherently more desirable for him and the club in terms of his development. Throwing him into the first team, however, is not.

It's just a similarity in terms of being a youth product who appears to be a natural goalscorer not getting a run of games. Get over it. I have no axe to grind against Chaplin at all, he is clearly our best striker and leading goal threat. I haven't even said I want Ponticelli in the team, I am just pointing out his stats, which are striking and interesting in terms of goals per minute and per start, and given what our manager thinks about his finishing ability, are food for thought. Nothing more. I am glad he got a loan to a L2 side as he needs games to develop. I really am not sure what your problem is. But to say we are giving Ponticelli more of an opportunity than Pompey did to Chaplin by loaning him to another side is warped logic which reveals the level of your intellect. No wonder it's impossible to have a conversation with you. You see things that simply aren't there. I've tried to be jovial. You just want to be angry at someone on the internet.

 

[Otis]

Good old Herzberg or is it Mintzberg?

Heisenberg isn't it?

 

[pusbccfc]

24th in L1 and relegation to 10th in less than 2 years suggests you’re talking nonsense. Considering the last 10-15 games have been difficult, we’ve done v well.

We’ve invested in young players because it seems for once, we actually have a medium to long term plan.

An awful lot has changed in 2 years.

I know he's invested in young players and understand his game. However, it's a dangerous one to play if your expensive young players don't develop.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

An awful lot has changed in 2 years.

I know he's invested in young players and understand his game. However, it's a dangerous one to play if your expensive young players don't develop.

Yes, and the time to judge them will be after a season of two, not half a season. Also, when you’re 9th in the table, you’d be inclined to say at this moment, it’s more ‘success’ than ‘failure’.