Cranfield Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
No. He is an officer of the court, but he was appointed by SISU.... I think!
Football league admit incompetance!!! (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Noggin
- Start date
No. He is an officer of the court, but he was appointed by SISU.... I think!
Philosoraptor
Well-Known Member
When are all parties due back in court?
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
they can do whatever they like with the golden share. the bigger issue is what legal action SISU will take against them and if they are prepared to defend it and what happens to the players. technically if SISU have them under contract and keep paying them they wouldn't move with the share, although their registrations (which are seperate to the contracts) could. you would have to see a contract to know the score there and if they specifically have clauses that could impact on this.
James Smith
Well-Known Member
Was this the often mentioned 'hold' that SISU had over the Football League?
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
would guess so. we've got the players contracts, if you don't give us the share we'll take you to court etc. FL reaslise they've made a mistake and try to keep it quiet until players and share are reunited. will now hope it all blows over and they don't have to take any action.
CarpyCov84
New Member
Reversed liquidation ???
10 points given back ???
ACL seek a new CVA ???
10 points given back ???
ACL seek a new CVA ???
wes_cov
New Member
And santa brings us Rooney for christmas...
CarpyCov84
New Member
Dhinsa's_Millions
Well-Known Member
Greg Clarke's position must be untenable now. Irrespective of the leagues nonsense rules they appear to have mislead creditors when witholding information in March.
He must go now.
He must go now.
James Smith
Well-Known Member
Did you watch him play midweek ???
Lol no thanks
Think I'd rather have Bale if we're compiling a Christmas list.
James Smith
Well-Known Member
Was this the job Hoffman was up for?
olderskyblue
Well-Known Member
Dhinsa's_Millions
Well-Known Member
Looks like Clarke was appointed in March 2010.
We need to campaign for his resignation. Funny how he has an interview released hours before the news of the FL admitting this error to the Sports Minister and the FA.
CarpyCov84
New Member
Would be interesting what the press,media etc will make of this when it breaks in the coming days
and at that interview said he didn't know yet it turns out that not only have they known for months but they looked into every single other club to make sure the same wasn't happening. He is a disgrace.
Dhinsa's_Millions
Well-Known Member
Its doubtful Sky will cover it as Sky Bet sponsor the league. Football is rotten to the core these days!
CarpyCov84
New Member
ACL/CCC should be looking to legal action to reverse the liquidation & start the bidding process again !
Manchester_sky_blue
Well-Known Member
Call me cynical if you like but I doubt that the league would have admitted their mistake publicly unless they were certain that they were safe from any repercussions. I fully expect that absolutely nothing will change as a result of this "revelation".
CarpyCov84
New Member
Does anyone know if this is a possibility ???
SkyBlue76
New Member
From what I've read and heard, the Football League are completely incompetent and I doubt very much they are clever enough to understand the implications of this admission. I expect (and REALLY hope) there will be legal challenges now.
Dhinsa's_Millions
Well-Known Member
Exactly - cynical but no doubt bang on. Its doubtful anything Golden Share related can be pursued but damages could be claimed by the bidders or ACL - I would love Clarke to get roasted for this by the FA and The Sports Minister though. If its just an oversight why didn't they mention it 4 months ago?! Now they are softening the blow to by reporting themselves.
Manchester_sky_blue
Well-Known Member
Oh yes doubtless there will be lots of challenges. All of which will come to nothing. There might be a slim chance of the other bidders getting some compensation for their wasted expenses in the bidding process but that would be all.
The league said ages ago that it didnt matter which arm of SISU held the golden share as they could award it to someone else at their discretion. They will argue that CCFC Holdings/Otium were the best option to allow the club to complete its fixtures which as they have been at great pains to point out is their primary concern. That being the case they as the regulating body they will get away with it.
Ironically this is one instance where SISU actually told the truth. Fisher said that all the players were registered to holdings and he wasn't bullshitting was he. First time for everything.
RoboCCFC90
Well-Known Member
And most people believed that the transferring was the act of Fisher and Co..
The more I hear, the more I am starting to think that us (the fans) don't know the whole story and that blame is to easily placed.
Don't get me wrong however I am not sugesting anyone is faultless, but this is just something else that makes us all stunned and leaves us asking more questions.
There is no clarity and you'd think over time there would have been.
The more I hear, the more I am starting to think that us (the fans) don't know the whole story and that blame is to easily placed.
Don't get me wrong however I am not sugesting anyone is faultless, but this is just something else that makes us all stunned and leaves us asking more questions.
There is no clarity and you'd think over time there would have been.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
questions
- How can errors be serious but not break regulations
- Does ACL have a claim against the following Appleton, Football League, the FA, SISU, and or personal claims against TF & Seppalla
- Does Appleton have the duty to recover assets from Otium, CCFC H
- does Appleton have a duty to sue FL & FA for their error
- is the whole administration based on the incorrect premise that the club is not CCFC Ltd, if so is the administration invalid
- can the bidding process be incorrect because it was based on incorrect and inaccurate information.
- the club follows the golden share, the players follows the golden share therefore what was advertised should have been the club not the rights to what ever assets - it would have created wholly different bids would it not? so how do we know the CVA was the best deal for creditors
- Appleton will say he sold whatever assets might be there but failed to list them - why?
- shouldnt Appleton have been operating the club not CCFC H ?
- when did registrations change to CCFC H - was that change wholesale or many over a period of time
- why was the business set up complicated the "club" was CCFC Ltd plus CCFC H Ltd with the players in CCFC Ltd. any other companies are really not relevant. It really is not that complicated as far as the FL should be concerned
- the FL should know what the strcture was because they have to approve in writing any changes
- why given that the information was in the 2011 accounts was it not possible to confirm this until now?
- was it all or some players. If certain players not re registered why not?
- no such division of assets exists elsewhere in other 71 clubs, now why would that be?
- how can assets straddle two companies when the member is the company holding the golden share and therefore the right to play in the league and players registrations/contracts
- the administrator sold minor assets to Otium for 1.5m - so it wasnt the players then
- what value was paid in transfer fees or compensation to CCFC ltd for the players put in to CCFC H Ltd
- shouldnt the directors of CCFC Ltd or CCFC H Ltd know what they are doing when registering a player, if it was always CCFC Ltd in the past one player could be an error but all of them ?
- less than 24 hours after Clarke saying he didnt know where the registrations were they admit a serious error and have done an audit of 71 other clubs (what 1800 players)?
- do any of the actions of those involved require reporting to more serious authorities?
- have creditors rights been prejudiced - not for me to say but if so would that constitute fraud by any of the parties involved?
so was there a plan in all this that started well before 22/03/13 and administration?. When you look at the timelines together with this admission it certainly seems that way. The administration relied on those serious errors at the FL for it to work the way it has.
Just beggars belief
one final thought ......... CCFC Ltd has not disappeared so the timing of this is curious. It still exists. In theory the Administrator or liquidator when appointed could look at un ravelling transactions ......let alone claims for full value of the assets lost, then move on to damage claims ....... the claims by ACL well those could be hefty if they can prove it
- How can errors be serious but not break regulations
- Does ACL have a claim against the following Appleton, Football League, the FA, SISU, and or personal claims against TF & Seppalla
- Does Appleton have the duty to recover assets from Otium, CCFC H
- does Appleton have a duty to sue FL & FA for their error
- is the whole administration based on the incorrect premise that the club is not CCFC Ltd, if so is the administration invalid
- can the bidding process be incorrect because it was based on incorrect and inaccurate information.
- the club follows the golden share, the players follows the golden share therefore what was advertised should have been the club not the rights to what ever assets - it would have created wholly different bids would it not? so how do we know the CVA was the best deal for creditors
- Appleton will say he sold whatever assets might be there but failed to list them - why?
- shouldnt Appleton have been operating the club not CCFC H ?
- when did registrations change to CCFC H - was that change wholesale or many over a period of time
- why was the business set up complicated the "club" was CCFC Ltd plus CCFC H Ltd with the players in CCFC Ltd. any other companies are really not relevant. It really is not that complicated as far as the FL should be concerned
- the FL should know what the strcture was because they have to approve in writing any changes
- why given that the information was in the 2011 accounts was it not possible to confirm this until now?
- was it all or some players. If certain players not re registered why not?
- no such division of assets exists elsewhere in other 71 clubs, now why would that be?
- how can assets straddle two companies when the member is the company holding the golden share and therefore the right to play in the league and players registrations/contracts
- the administrator sold minor assets to Otium for 1.5m - so it wasnt the players then
- what value was paid in transfer fees or compensation to CCFC ltd for the players put in to CCFC H Ltd
- shouldnt the directors of CCFC Ltd or CCFC H Ltd know what they are doing when registering a player, if it was always CCFC Ltd in the past one player could be an error but all of them ?
- less than 24 hours after Clarke saying he didnt know where the registrations were they admit a serious error and have done an audit of 71 other clubs (what 1800 players)?
- do any of the actions of those involved require reporting to more serious authorities?
- have creditors rights been prejudiced - not for me to say but if so would that constitute fraud by any of the parties involved?
so was there a plan in all this that started well before 22/03/13 and administration?. When you look at the timelines together with this admission it certainly seems that way. The administration relied on those serious errors at the FL for it to work the way it has.
Just beggars belief
one final thought ......... CCFC Ltd has not disappeared so the timing of this is curious. It still exists. In theory the Administrator or liquidator when appointed could look at un ravelling transactions ......let alone claims for full value of the assets lost, then move on to damage claims ....... the claims by ACL well those could be hefty if they can prove it
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SkyBlue76
New Member
All great questions, but it is this one that is key for me. The FL have been complicit in muddying the waters and as a result the entire administration process was one sided (it was only ever SISU that would be successful). If the FL knew about this BEFORE the administration process had run its course, they are even more complicit with this situation. I don't doubt Appleton knew all this too but still did not question it (or at least turned a blind eye). The whole process is flawed. CCFC Ltd is still in administration so this sorry mess should now be unravelled and a new bidding process begun with a new administrator.
No future with SISU
New Member
The League are business amateurs
They do not hold the company house reg numbers of the league clubs, so do not know which coventry company the were dealing with. All they held was a name (coventry city) so it was easy for Fisher to move the assets to one company and the debt to another.
They do not hold the company house reg numbers of the league clubs, so do not know which coventry company the were dealing with. All they held was a name (coventry city) so it was easy for Fisher to move the assets to one company and the debt to another.
CarpyCov84
New Member
RoboCCFC90
Well-Known Member
Your not Godiva, a lot of people on here just assume it's SISU because it's easy to place the blame at there feet, refer if you will to the thread yesterday about an apparent Leon Clarke departure, so many people slandering SISU for supposedly allowing Leon to go yet when Stephen Pressley and came out and said it's crap, no one said "I was wrong".
It's not that SISU are excusable people or me, Godiva, Hill83, Grendel or anyone else are SISU Apologists however the water isn't clear, it's to easy to place blame and without the full facts all the blame your placing without full knowledge is unjustified.
Dhinsa's_Millions
Well-Known Member
I think the transfer was Fisher, Dulieu and co. (SISU) Who else did it? The fact is the league allowed it to happen! SISU don't get off the hook because it was allowed to happen.
Hobo
Well-Known Member
I have written to the Football League on two occasions asking when the players registrations were transferred along with other issues. I have received fob off automated replies.
This morning Clarke in a public statement said it would be interesting but not altered the situation.
However at the point I requested this information I pointed out it could be proof SISU acted unlawfully in the administration process or the Football Leagues Administrative procedures were not fit for purpose!
They are now admitting mistakes.
TO ALL FANS....writing letters, persistence and pressures does work however slow the wheels turn.
NEW AREA FOR USE TO PURSUE
This has been raised before, but a campaign we as Coventry City Fans can whole heatedly support.
National Governing Bodies of Sport..I.e Football League because of funds they receive to govern and salaries they receive to administer something of National interest should come under The Freedom Of Information Act...the same as the Police, Local Council, NHS etc.,
start lobbying MPs that this must happen....The Football League cannot ignore its own rules just because they have seen the size of SISU funds and the threat of legal action and try to cover up their own incompetence.
THIS IS A FIGHT FOR "REAL FOOTBALL REAL FANS" not just Coventry City....keep the faith keep the fight, don't be fobbed off!!!
This morning Clarke in a public statement said it would be interesting but not altered the situation.
However at the point I requested this information I pointed out it could be proof SISU acted unlawfully in the administration process or the Football Leagues Administrative procedures were not fit for purpose!
They are now admitting mistakes.
TO ALL FANS....writing letters, persistence and pressures does work however slow the wheels turn.
NEW AREA FOR USE TO PURSUE
This has been raised before, but a campaign we as Coventry City Fans can whole heatedly support.
National Governing Bodies of Sport..I.e Football League because of funds they receive to govern and salaries they receive to administer something of National interest should come under The Freedom Of Information Act...the same as the Police, Local Council, NHS etc.,
start lobbying MPs that this must happen....The Football League cannot ignore its own rules just because they have seen the size of SISU funds and the threat of legal action and try to cover up their own incompetence.
THIS IS A FIGHT FOR "REAL FOOTBALL REAL FANS" not just Coventry City....keep the faith keep the fight, don't be fobbed off!!!
Fedupskybluesfan
New Member
You are correct, but just to throw another one in the pot. As Holdings was and is the original company could it be that when they dropped out of the premier league the FL placed the GS in the wrong company as the PL share would of been with holdings as Ltd did not exist until 1995. Just a question???
hopesprings
Well-Known Member
Agree and I also now think that this is why Greg Clarke decided to step aside as chairman. His replacement has already been decided Shaun Harvey. Too much of a coincidence that it was announced last month and that Clarke had decided to go March /April time? now of course Harvey can say it didn't happen on his watch and all that. Maybe one chink is that all of this has come out before the exit from administration is complete HOPE SPRINGS ETERNAL!