Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
Within the next 3 months. With new Tory & Labour leaders.
Do you all think so too?
Do you all think so too?
Forthcoming General Election (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Captain Dart
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torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Yep. I love Hilary Benn. I'm in PLP and like Corbyn but if we are to have any chance of defeating Tories then a new leader will have to be found to fight Boris as I think he'll be the new PM
Exciting times. I love politics!
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Exciting times. I love politics!
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skyblue1991
Well-Known Member
I think Conservative will appoint a new leader by October and shortly call for a general election for May '17.
I expect Corbyn to resign the next week.
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I expect Corbyn to resign the next week.
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NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
Just rejoined the Labour Party. Blair persuaded me to leave...
It is all in the air... and that scares me a little.
Back when I were a lad, I resigned my Labour Membership when Tony Blair got rid of Clause IV (the commitment to put the means of production in the hands of the people). As I get older, I get a little more pragmatic as I see the bigger damage done by having a principled opposition to a Conservative Party (especially to my job prospects!).
I had high hopes for Gordon Brown as the path through that rupture, but he let himself get moulded by his party into something he wasn't. I do worry as we see the splits becoming visible in the main parties however then, with the decline of the Liberals thanks to Clegg's insanity, we risk the rise of the disturbing radical sides...
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
There might be an official and an independent Labour party then. :angelic:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indep...Labour_Party_government_.281922.E2.80.9331.29
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
Depends who the Labour leader is. The curveball as ever, is Corbyn.
Recently everone's been wrong in reading the will of the people. Was there an argument to be made to rope a dope, and have the Tories split apart and then try an election thinking they had an easy run?
I dunno tbh. I can align with the left... but Corbyn is patently showing himself as not a leader. He's had ample opportunity to call this government to account, and has failed mostly every time.
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
Totally agree that Corbyn isn't a leader, if anything McDonnell is better, but possibly more scary.
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
McDonnell is better, he's at least capable of articulating his position.
It's always significant he's sent out to do the interviews, too.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
If JC doesn't go I wouldn't bet against defections from labour MP's to the Lib Dems or even defections to a completely new version of the labour party.
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
It's SDP all over again.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
The mood is certainly there.
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
I don't think ultimately the UK will leave, the next Government will just cut a better deal with the EU. Wait till you see the manifestos. :chicken:
PS that was my bet & why I voted leave, I just hope the EU itself takes Brexit as a cue to initiate some serious internal reform as part of the package, if they don't I still want out anyhow & I'll take the consequences.
PS that was my bet & why I voted leave, I just hope the EU itself takes Brexit as a cue to initiate some serious internal reform as part of the package, if they don't I still want out anyhow & I'll take the consequences.
Until we get politicians with the bollocks to actually fight for what they believe in and not be 'whipped' into following party lines then we won't move forward. I couldn't stomach a Labour government that doesn't listen to it's core voters anymore than an arrogant Tory government that lies and cajoles. Too many nest liners and self interested career politicians all over the place. They are not trusted anymore !
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
Somewhere you have to compromise though. Even Corbyn recognised that over Europe (and even Trident and Syria) but... whenever he compromises, he does so by omission. What he isn't good at is carrying people along behind him.
Although I say that, he was able to carry a groundswell along to get him the leadership, and potentially to keep it too, after another contest... Corbyn is the great paradox of modern politics and, objectively, fascinating!
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
I have been in Labour Party for 33 years. Was a mad Socialist Worker type in the 80s, begrudgingly applauded Blair for getting us elected in the 90s then became disillusioned in the 00s with New Labour and Iraq.
I voted for Corbyn last year as I thought despite his lack of credentials he would show us what the Labour Party is all about, take us back to its founding values. Fine is we are going to be in opposition for another 5 years but sad to say with a prospect of a general election on the horizon then we need a new leader who is electable.
We need someone to fight the ideological Tory austerity programme and that isn't Jeremy.
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I voted for Corbyn last year as I thought despite his lack of credentials he would show us what the Labour Party is all about, take us back to its founding values. Fine is we are going to be in opposition for another 5 years but sad to say with a prospect of a general election on the horizon then we need a new leader who is electable.
We need someone to fight the ideological Tory austerity programme and that isn't Jeremy.
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chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Indeed, and that's a big part of the 'problem'. Corbyn has already said he would stand for leader again so what is this coup going to achieve? There will be months of Labour infighting when they should be taking advantage of a leaderless Conservative party and then after all that Corbyn will be voted in again.
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
I'm not ready for the knackers yard myself, just yet
What bothers me is this could go a number of ways - either the parliamentary party realises it needs to cater more to the left than it has, and all ends up well(ish) with sufficient checks and balances...
Or we end up with a fragmented opposition, which means parliament sees PM Boris, Chancellor Gove, a UKIP opposition with Farage defecting back to the Tories for the post of Foreign Secretary!
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
Tell you what, I always had Andy Burnham down as 'insincere'.
Now I'm kind of wondering if that should actually be 'loyal to a fault'.
Now I'm kind of wondering if that should actually be 'loyal to a fault'.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
I'm starting to have my doubts. We could really have done with one side or the other having a decisive victory. With it being so close and not a unanimous result across the four countries of the UK it seems to have brought about a situation that wasn't really considered, or at least the consequences.
We have no power of recall, one of the Conservatives broken promises, so if our elected representatives don't act upon our instructions what can we do? Sure we can vote them out at the next election but its not like there's some better alternatives waiting in the wings. Scottish and Northern Irish MPs can, with some justification, argue that blocking the UK leaving is acting upon their electorates mandate.
The whole thing is a mess and needs sorting ASAP. The longer the uncertainty goes on the more damage there is likely to be to the economy and the longer it will take to recover.
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
Alternatively not jumping swiftly allows for a compromise to be found, that can be spun as a 'victory' for all bar the most mentalist of extremists.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
The rest of the EU don't appear to want to wait around. The way the exit procedure works we're not really in the driving seat here, the EU can apply a lot of pressure in terms of the negotiations to push the UK to a swift exit.
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
Germany are quite happy to. I'd say a lotof the rest is emotive rhetoric.
And the way it works we are in the driving seat in terms of time, as nothing happens until we say we want to bog off!
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Indeed the clock doesn't start ticking until we invoke article 50 but that is the only thing on our side, everything else is stacked in the EU's favour by design to make leaving an unattractive prospect. They will not be happy to let us just sit on the result for months without doing anything. A long period of uncertainty is bad for both the EU and the UK.
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
Germany seem quite happy for that.
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
Bet they're shitting themselves at the prospect of having to take up the financial strain if UK actually leaves.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
They've said there's no need to rush, that's different. Its not saying it can be put on hold indefinitely with no indication of timescale given.
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
You are saying the EU don't want to wait around. Germany seem more than relaxed with our timescales.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
you've a devious mind NW!
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Donald Tusk, president of the European council, Jean-Claude Juncker, president of the European commission, and Martin Schulz, president of the European parliament along with Mark Rutte, prime minister of the Netherlands and EU president have said any delay to Britain’s exit would “unnecessarily prolong uncertainty”.
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
And Germany seem quite happy.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately they aren't the only country in the EU. And if you actually look at what was said "It shouldn't take forever, that's right, but I would not fight for a short timeframe" it doesn't indicate to me that Germany are happy to wait around indefinitely with no timescale given for us to decide what we're doing.
