From a usually reliable source (1 Viewer)

oldbloke · Oct 3, 2014

This is not a done deal. The consortium hasnt got all the required finance yet. But if they do, senior councillors and officers want to do the deal. During the Ricoh return negotiations and related conversations sisu were adamant they were going to build a new stadium, said they had no interest in buying the Ricoh and only wanted a short-term rental deal. sisu are continuing with the JR and have insinuated there might be more legal action against acl, ccc, higgs and individuals. Wasps have been talking with ccc/acl over several months and if they can get the money they want to do the deal. The councils view is that in 2-4 years CCFC will be leaving, wasps are keen to come in so it would be mad not to do the deal. CCFC can play at the Ricoh for 2-4 years and negotiate any new arrangements they want with wasps. If the council says no to the deal wasps will go elsewhere, CCFC are committed to nothin beyond 2 years so the risk is the Ricoh would then be without anyone and the council doesn't want that risk. It all stinks to me and I oppose the deal but this might explain council view.

The Lurker · Oct 3, 2014

oldbloke said:
This is not a done deal. The consortium hasnt got all the required finance yet. But if they do, senior councillors and officers want to do the deal. During the Ricoh return negotiations and related conversations sisu were adamant they were going to build a new stadium, said they had no interest in buying the Ricoh and only wanted a short-term rental deal. sisu are continuing with the JR and have insinuated there might be more legal action against acl, ccc, higgs and individuals. Wasps have been talking with ccc/acl over several months and if they can get the money they want to do the deal. The councils view is that in 2-4 years CCFC will be leaving, wasps are keen to come in so it would be mad not to do the deal. CCFC can play at the Ricoh for 2-4 years and negotiate any new arrangements they want with wasps. If the council says no to the deal wasps will go elsewhere, CCFC are committed to nothin beyond 2 years so the risk is the Ricoh would then be without anyone and the council doesn't want that risk. It all stinks to me and I oppose the deal but this might explain council view.

Exactly how i see it. SISU indirectly started all this with childish games

Rob S · Oct 3, 2014

And you're a reliable source?

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I detect a plant...

sky blue john · Oct 3, 2014

Looks like Sisu have shot themselves in the foot. In the process of telling CCC that they are only back whilst new stadium is being built, they have handed CCC the ammunition to sell it !

jimmyhillsfanclub · Oct 3, 2014

Rob S said:
And you're a reliable source?

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I detect a plant...

To be fair Rob S, the info. in the post above is pretty much a re-hash of the CT article from yesterday or the day before.....nothing new or revealing in the content whatsoever....

...so if he is a plant....he needs better material.

skybluetony176 · Oct 3, 2014

jimmyhillsfanclub said:
To be fair Rob S, the info. in the post above is pretty much a re-hash of the CT article from yesterday or the day before.....nothing new or revealing in the content whatsoever....

...so if he is a plant....he needs better material.

Silks nice. Doesn't chaf the skin.

Sick Boy · Oct 3, 2014

Rob S said:
And you're a reliable source?

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I detect a plant...

Without a doubt!

SkyBlueScottie · Oct 3, 2014

Cheers Bob.

The Lurker · Oct 3, 2014

Rob S said:
And you're a reliable source?

Join Date Aug 2014
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I detect a plant...

Either way it makes sense... Sisu mentioning new stadium etc... Is enough to make the owners of the Ricoh panic and think of alternatives. Not good for us but that's the way sisu have played the whole saga so they only have themselves to blame

duffer · Oct 3, 2014

Rob S said:
And you're a reliable source?

Join Date Aug 2014
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I detect a plant...

Plant or not, which bit would you differ with Rob?

Do SISU want a longer term deal, do you think?

Would they like to buy into the arena?

Are they dropping the threats of legal action?

torchomatic · Oct 3, 2014

The ACL gun was loaded a long time ago. Target: Franchise.

sky blue john said:
they have handed CCC the ammunition to sell it !

Colin1883 · Oct 3, 2014

If ACL CCC sell the Ricoh... Would that allow sisu to build a stadium in Coventry?

duffer · Oct 3, 2014

torchomatic said:
The ACL gun was loaded a long time ago. Target: Franchise.

And it could have been spiked had SISU shown any interest in buying in. It probably still could.

sky blue john · Oct 3, 2014

torchomatic said:
The ACL gun was loaded a long time ago. Target: Franchise.

As a business with a stadium and no tenant what did you expect them to do ?
May be poor little sisu made to much of a good job of convincing the world they were not coming back to the Ricoh ?

SkyBlueSid · Oct 3, 2014

Even as we were preparing for the Gillingham game, SISU (Fisher) said that they still planned their own stadium. OK, nobody believed it, but you cannot blame the council for talking to another potential buyer in the circumstances. It is what anyone would do, especially as the council have legal duties to protect the taxpayers' investment.

As for a new stadium in Coventry, it is unlikely, on the grounds that there is no actual need for it. The planning process could take a couple of years with appeals and enquiries. Add on the fact that no land has been bought, no plans submitted, and the build will be at least a year. That will take us to at least 2018 so another 2 years at Sixfields beckons even if the new stadium is real.

Rob S · Oct 3, 2014

duffer said:
Plant or not, which bit would you differ with Rob?

Do SISU want a longer term deal, do you think?

Would they like to buy into the arena?

Are they dropping the threats of legal action?

A few months back, the idea of CCFC back playing and renting at the Arena was a fantasy. Now we are back renting and have the chance of some stability. Every fan group and nearly every fan was happy and wanted to get on with settling down at the Ricoh, building trust back up and seeing how we could move forward. Some time to get back to focussing on the football and enjoying supporting CCFC once again. All we wanted was some time.

Most fans would rather CCFC stayed at the Ricoh so our next move would be to make sure that happens. Change minds about new stadiums, just like we changed minds about coming back to rent at the Ricoh.

By forcing this deal through, the council – whose leader Ann Lucas was one of the high-profile exponents of the 'come back and let's re-establish trust again' doctrine – are totally scuppering any chance of this.

And forgive me but based on the previous Weber Shandwick use of this forum and some of the multiple accounts and so forth, I'm going to be very suspicious of a new poster who is trying to back-peddle on behalf of the council and make this a 'it's all Sisu's fault' thread yet again when it's the f'in council that are having the secret meetings with a consortium we know very little about. If the Ray Ranson involvement rumours are true I'd be very, very worried.

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 3, 2014

Rob S said:
If the Ray Ranson involvement rumours are true I'd be very, very worried.

Go on...

chiefdave · Oct 3, 2014

That's all well and good Rob but when the people who ultimately make the decision on where we play keep saying we are not staying at the Ricoh and will leave in 4 years tops aren't they a major cause of the mess we're in now?

I'm holding out hope that before it's too late we will see a clear statement from SISU that we want to stay permanently and / or have an ownership stake in the Ricoh. Not doing that is really playing into the councils hands on this.

SkyblueBri · Oct 3, 2014

I really do not know what people expect the Council to do, they represent ALL of Coventry no just our fans and how many of them fall within the city.

The Council will do what is in the best interest of the majority and that is not us.

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 3, 2014

SkyblueBri said:
I really do not know what people expect the Council to do.

Support the heritage and culture in its city?

Build a society rather than a bank balance?

Nick · Oct 3, 2014

SkyblueBri said:
I really do not know what people expect the Council to do, they represent ALL of Coventry no just our fans and how many of them fall within the city.

The Council will do what is in the best interest of the majority and that is not us.

Not suddenly change their moral stance on something to suit? not bullshit with fans emotions about how they love the club etc.

oldskyblue58 · Oct 3, 2014

not sure we needed a new thread for this tbh Its all stuff that was out in the media and we already knew isn't it?

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 3, 2014

oldskyblue58 said:
not sure we needed a new thread for this tbh Its all stuff that was out in the media and we already knew isn't it?

If a circle's worth drawing, it's worth drawing 50 times!

olderskyblue · Oct 3, 2014

Maybe the council have received plans for a new stadium in the Coventry area....

duffer · Oct 3, 2014

Rob S said:
A few months back, the idea of CCFC back playing and renting at the Arena was a fantasy. Now we are back renting and have the chance of some stability. Every fan group and nearly every fan was happy and wanted to get on with settling down at the Ricoh, building trust back up and seeing how we could move forward. Some time to get back to focussing on the football and enjoying supporting CCFC once again. All we wanted was some time.

Most fans would rather CCFC stayed at the Ricoh so our next move would be to make sure that happens. Change minds about new stadiums, just like we changed minds about coming back to rent at the Ricoh.

By forcing this deal through, the council – whose leader Ann Lucas was one of the high-profile exponents of the 'come back and let's re-establish trust again' doctrine – are totally scuppering any chance of this.

And forgive me but based on the previous Weber Shandwick use of this forum and some of the multiple accounts and so forth, I'm going to be very suspicious of a new poster who is trying to back-peddle on behalf of the council and make this a 'it's all Sisu's fault' thread yet again when it's the f'in council that are having the secret meetings with a consortium we know very little about. If the Ray Ranson involvement rumours are true I'd be very, very worried.

Don't get me wrong mate, I'm dead set against this move as you know.

But I couldn't give a monkey's about who might or might not be behind it, what I want to see is for SISU to step up and say that they want to be involved too. At that point, the Council have a problem and people will start asking hard questions if they show themselves as unwilling to deal with CCFC. At the moment though, whether what they are doing is ethically (or financially) right or wrong, legally they are perfectly entitled to go down this road.

SISU will know a bit about this kind of approach. It's the 'my way or the highway' negotiating style that they themselves favour. It doesn't make it right, but SISU have got a clear choice now - step up and say we're interested in buying into ACL, or stand back and let Wasps do the deal (or hope that it fails for external reasons such as fan pressure or lack of funding). If they take the latter path then where that leaves the club is anyone's guess.

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 3, 2014

duffer said:
Don't get me wrong mate, I'm dead set against this move as you know.

But I couldn't give a monkey's about who might or might not be behind it, what I want to see is for SISU to step up and say that they want to be involved too. At that point, the Council have a problem and people will start asking hard questions if they show themselves as unwilling to deal with CCFC. At the moment though, whether what they are doing is ethically (or financially) right or wrong, legally they are perfectly entitled to go down this road.

SISU will know a bit about this kind of approach. It's the 'my way or the highway' negotiating style that they themselves favour. It doesn't make it right, but SISU have got a clear choice now - step up and say we're interested in buying into ACL, or stand back and let Wasps do the deal (or hope that it fails for external reasons such as fan pressure or lack of funding). If they take the latter path then where that leaves the club is anyone's guess.

The problem is, even if SISU do/did bog off, it doesn't sit well with me that the solution to a problem is to rip someone else's sports/leisure time away from where it should be. Wasps should be trying to get back *into* London, not move further away!

And I suspect we're actually singing from the same page, but it kind of shows up that it's not just SISU who show a complete lack of understanding of the emotions and attachments that sporting teams can make with people.

So even if nothing comes of this, who, *who* can we have faith in to take us into account going forward? I don't want a lot, I don't even care what division we're in... but I would like at least the pretence that we're all in it together, forever!

duffer · Oct 3, 2014

Deleted member 5849 said:
The problem is, even if SISU do/did bog off, it doesn't sit well with me that the solution to a problem is to rip someone else's sports/leisure time away from where it should be. Wasps should be trying to get back *into* London, not move further away!

And I suspect we're actually singing from the same page, but it kind of shows up that it's not just SISU who show a complete lack of understanding of the emotions and attachments that sporting teams can make with people.

So even if nothing comes of this, who, *who* can we have faith in to take us into account going forward? I don't want a lot, I don't even care what division we're in... but I would like at least the pretence that we're all in it together, forever!

I couldn't agree more. It's unbelieveable that Councillors and others who made so much of the outrage of moving Coventry to Northampton can now advocate doing the same to another club. For what it's worth I've made that point directly to Ann Lucas and my local councillors.

The simple fact is that we can't trust any of them, it seems. SISU are in it for the money, we've always known that. The council and ACL and even the Higgs Trust have shown that their morality is only offended by something that directly impacts them, otherwise they are ethically flexible it seems. To say I'm disappointed is a massive understatement. This is all so unnecessary.

Rusty Trombone · Oct 3, 2014

oldbloke said:
During the Ricoh return negotiations and related conversations sisu said they had no interest in buying the Ricoh and only wanted a short-term rental deal. sisu are continuing with the JR and have insinuated there might be more legal action against acl, ccc, higgs and individuals.

This is the bit of the post that I'd like confirmed or denied.

olderskyblue · Oct 3, 2014

duffer said:
what I want to see is for SISU to step up and say that they want to be involved too. At that point, the Council have a problem and people will start asking hard questions if they show themselves as unwilling to deal with CCFC.

I imagine the appeal of the JR and threats of further legal action may be a bit of an obstacle to discussions with SISU?

Sky Blue Dal · Oct 3, 2014

Rob S said:
A few months back, the idea of CCFC back playing and renting at the Arena was a fantasy. Now we are back renting and have the chance of some stability. Every fan group and nearly every fan was happy and wanted to get on with settling down at the Ricoh, building trust back up and seeing how we could move forward. Some time to get back to focussing on the football and enjoying supporting CCFC once again. All we wanted was some time.

Most fans would rather CCFC stayed at the Ricoh so our next move would be to make sure that happens. Change minds about new stadiums, just like we changed minds about coming back to rent at the Ricoh.

By forcing this deal through, the council – whose leader Ann Lucas was one of the high-profile exponents of the 'come back and let's re-establish trust again' doctrine – are totally scuppering any chance of this.

And forgive me but based on the previous Weber Shandwick use of this forum and some of the multiple accounts and so forth, I'm going to be very suspicious of a new poster who is trying to back-peddle on behalf of the council and make this a 'it's all Sisu's fault' thread yet again when it's the f'in council that are having the secret meetings with a consortium we know very little about. If the Ray Ranson involvement rumours are true I'd be very, very worried.

HEY!!!! What you doing here?? .. Thought you were having a meeting with Joy and Co???

duffer · Oct 3, 2014

olderskyblue said:
I imagine the appeal of the JR and threats of further legal action may be a bit of an obstacle to discussions with SISU?

Undoubtedly it is. However even with all of that going on, a clear request from SISU to be engaged if there is an opportunity to buy into ACL could not be easily denied by the council.

The council have a statutory duty to maximise their return from any assets that are sold, you can't do that by ignoring a willing bidder, even if it's one that you don't like.

Sick Boy · Oct 3, 2014

SkyblueBri said:
I really do not know what people expect the Council to do, they represent ALL of Coventry no just our fans and how many of them fall within the city.

The Council will do what is in the best interest of the majority and that is not us.

No other club's would come out with this of stuff. Fans of other clubs that i have spoken to about this are disgusted with ccc trying to get wasps in.

olderskyblue · Oct 3, 2014

I imagine "don't like" doesn't come into it. The JR and threat of further legal action, along with historical dealings with them, would be reason enough to not entertain them I would have thought.

If SISU came to the table and offered to drop all the legals, and put a bid forward. That maybe a different story.

olderskyblue · Oct 3, 2014

Sick Boy said:
No other club's would come out with this of stuff. Fans of other clubs that i have spoken to about this are disgusted with ccc trying to get wasps in.

Did those people sign our petition?

rupert_bear · Oct 3, 2014

Sick Boy said:
No other club's would come out with this of stuff. Fans of other clubs that i have spoken to about this are disgusted with ccc trying to get wasps in.

Bullshit, what fans are they then ?

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