dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
The taxman need to do his research get him to peruse these forums.
that is actually the plan.... But the taxman sees it differently. He says that the purchase price is that agreed between the buyer and seller. Where the finance comes from is irrelevant and how quickly it gets paid back has no effect on the original agreed price. The loan repayments are not running costs. I can only set the interest part of the repayments off against the tax as expenses.
140k. The price of the flat is 140k if you agreed on 130k cash and 10k in repayments on my behalf - total 140k. Otherwise why do you want to pay my loan off out of your wages? I could of course ask for the full 140k up front and pay my own loan off. Price is still 140k.
Look at it another way, instead of taking the initial YB loan ACL had the option to pay yearly for the lease, I think it was £1m a year. If they had taken that option and with Wasps having 250 years left to go on the lease would you say they had paid CCC £255.4m?
So on the deeds it would say I'd paid you £140K?
Yes and I would have you sign that you repay my loan as the balance between 130000 and 140000.
So on the deeds it would say I'd paid you £140K?
is a loan operating costs? Operating costs are things like electric and water, services etc.. Loan repayments are reducing a liability and will end some day. Running costs continue so long the business is running. ACL has to repay money borrowed - the same as if they had paid up front and taken out a loan to do so ( in effect that is what they have done, except the loan had been given to their predecessors for that reason and they just took it over - allbeit at new conditions ).
No that's not what I said, I said if I paid £130K for your flat and took on your loan. You're now changing that to manipulate it to suit your point of view. If you're going to do that I will pay you £120K plus the loan as the flat is valued at £130K.
There must be a contract between the council and wasps which names the purchase price as the amount in cash plus the value of the outstanding loan on the day the contract was signed. There is no way that the contract is only for the cash part and ACL pay off the loan because there's a standing order in place. Apart from anything else, the taxman will have to know as Wasps will be writing the interest off against the tax.
No. How long was the lease when the price was set at 1m? They had the choice, buy the lease outright or lease it paying on a yearly basis - which would be more expensive than taking out a loan and paying upfront. They paid up front and financed it with a loan from the yb - it was cheaper. I lease my car, but get taxed on the purchase price - regardless of the lease cost.
Yes. Exactly. Purchase price is then cash plus loan = 130,00. Same as ACL, cash plus loan = purchase price.
I said it was built into the operating costs. I.e monthly budgeted for, like gas, electric etc, in which their income from stadium operations will be budgeted for.
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Yes. Exactly. Purchase price is then cash plus loan = 130,00. Same as ACL, cash plus loan = purchase price.
If someone bought CCFC for £1 and took on the liabilities would you say they paid £1 or £70m?
Come on. The loan is already in place.
If CCFC had been successful in getting higgs share would you say they paid £2.77m or £10m?
If someone bought CCFC for £1 and took on the liabilities would you say they paid £1 or £70m?
I don't understand why you and others are so obsessively defending wasps. It's bizarre.
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The loan was in place and has to be repaid as a part of the purchase price.
We all know the answer to this, just look how everyone ripped into Hoffman when he offered £1.
But from the sounds of things it's not the same loan so it wasn't already in place.
I'll try again. I buy you flat for £130K. While I'm there I like the look of your car and offer to buy it off you, turns out you owe £5K on your car loan and the car is worth £10K. I offer to pay you £5K for the car and make you a payment every month to cover the loan. Have I purchased your flat for £130K or £140K?
If it is new or old it has to be repaid and is a liability. The contract will name the liability price as a part of the purchase price. How do you explain the liability on your balance otherwise?
You bought the flat for 130k. Done. I won't sell you my car. You are in effect offering to buy my car for 5k less than it is worth. What has that got to do with my house? Or do you want me to reduce my house price by 5k? Either way I ain't selling my car or house for 5k less than its worth. If I did the price of either the house or the car would be 5k less.
OSB has done a piece on this confirming that the purchase is £5.4 million - still don knows more than OSB don't you don?
Does it matter, if CCC loan ACL another £10m tomorrow will you then be saying Wasps have purchased ACL for £30m?
Bingo, at last. Your house = ACL, an asset your own in your car = an asset ACL own in the lease. You took out a loan to buy your car, ACL took out a loan to buy a lease.
OSB has done a piece on this confirming that the purchase is £5.4 million - still don knows more than OSB don't you don?
1. No. The deal has been finalised.
2. Wasps have bought ACL who own a lease. They have paid part up front and the rest over 20 years. Total 19 m. They have bought one object - ACL.
The deal is worth around £20 million
Unless you can convince me that ACL owned by Wasps have not inherited a liability for 12-14 million.
Wasps haven't inherited the liability, the liability still sits in ACL. It's ACL Ltd liability not LONDON Wasps Holdings Ltd liability.
If we CCFC took a loan out on further season ticket sales, that's CCFC's liability not Sisu's.
It's a it like CCFC Ltd being put into admin with debts - they weren't sisu's liabilities they were CCFC Ltd's.
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I would like OSB to explain how the purchase price is calculated for tax purposes.
Post 7.
http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/52194-Wasps-owner-reveals-motives-for-Ricoh-Arena-takeover
They haven't paid £19m.
Wasps pay £5.5m to ccc and higgs for 100% share in ACL.
Wasps pay £1m to ccc to extend loan
ACL Ltd borrowed £14m from ccc. It is ACL's debt, and again it will be budgeted for within ACL's operating costs. No new money.
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ok they have paid 5,5 and ACL will pay 13,5. Wasps own ACL. So wasps pay 5,5 in cash and their subsidiary pays 13,5 out of their profits. Total 19m over 20years. Only 5,5 in cash, but the 13,5 would have gone into ACLs pockets as profit - had they not had to pay it to CCC
One way or another CCC have 19m. The argument is, presumably, that ACL would have paid it anyway, whoever the owner was. As it now is ACL pays it as a Wasps subsidiary. So wasps do not get the 13,5m which would have gone to them as owners . Even if it is budgeted, Wasps have to earn it first through ACL. The council is well out of it. You will no doubt say, the council could have kept plodding along as long as ACL earned enough to pay back the loan. Which is true, but it isn't their job to run a stadium and Higgs wanted out from the start. The best case would have been SISU - but they insist on doing their own thing.
Everyone be careful what you say. Mart seems obsessed with tax, I think he's from the inland revenue!
It sort of is their job if they own a stadium management company isn't it?
Post 7.
http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/52194-Wasps-owner-reveals-motives-for-Ricoh-Arena-takeover
They haven't paid £19m.
Wasps pay £5.5m to ccc and higgs for 100% share in ACL.
Wasps pay £1m to ccc to extend loan
ACL Ltd borrowed £14m from ccc. It is ACL's debt, and again it will be budgeted for within ACL's operating costs. No new money.
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Post 7.
http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/52194-Wasps-owner-reveals-motives-for-Ricoh-Arena-takeover
They haven't paid £19m.
Wasps pay £5.5m to ccc and higgs for 100% share in ACL.
Wasps pay £1m to ccc to extend loan
ACL Ltd borrowed £14m from ccc. It is ACL's debt, and again it will be budgeted for within ACL's operating costs. No new money.
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If the wasp did not clear the existing loan are servicing the loan that was made to ACL then they have fell into SISU's web and the appeal they have made has groundsCan't answer for Grendel but I can make my own comments
If both these things that were oft repeated by CCC & Higgs are true then all the councillors who voted yes to the sale should be hung in Broadgate as they have sold ACL to Wasps for a bargain basement price.
The value of the business is £12 million with a loan outstanding, Wasps have paid less than half that and the loan is still outstanding. It can't be part of the purchase, it's money being loaned out being repaid not new money coming in. if you're going to factor in things happening in the future the main thing to factor in is the shortly due stadium naming rights renewal. There's a good chance this will bring in more than Wasps have paid meaning to all intents and purposes CCC have gifted the stadium to Wasps free of charge.
If the wasp did not clear the existing loan are servicing the loan that was made to ACL then they have fell into SISU's web and the appeal they have made has grounds
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