Gathering for Tommy / Discontent (18 Viewers)

Harry Krishner · Aug 3, 2024

Otis said:
Otis said:

Have you examples of where host countries have been swamped and then become predominantly Islamic?

Click to expand...

Are you serious??

Pretty much all of them.

A few to be going on with: Turkey (previously Byzantium - Eastern Orthodox), Egypt (Coptic Christian), Syria (Coptic, Jewish and others), Afghanistan (Buddhist for one, and others), Iraq (Christian and Jewish), Iran (Zoroastrian, Jewish and others), Armenia (ongoing - oldest Christain country in the world under pressure from Azerbaijan and Turkey), Sudan and South Sudan (Christian and indiginous belief systems - under pressure from Janjaweed Arab militias), Albania (ongoing, Christian now down to <20%), Kosovo (was Christian but the Serbs lost it under the Ottomans - now <4%), France (Christian - that one's a joke but probably not for much longer..). Saudi Arabia itself was not Muslim at one time but you're talking antiquity. It was home to nomadic Jewish tribes and others as your Muslim mates may be happy to explain. Iran and Iraq in particular had substantial non-Muslim populations into the last century, but they are minor now. Lebanon going the same way.

Then you can get into the Stans of Central Asia but I'm not sure what the earlier religions were - probably a mix. Just research the spread of Islam.

This is crucial background to ongoing conflicts such as Arab - Israeli. Jews were once widespread across much of the middle east, north Africa all the way into the Stans, but have been "forced out" so that Israel is the only remaining safe Jewish territory.

SIR ERNIE · Aug 3, 2024

CCFCSteve said:
There might be some genuine despair/helplessness from a small few (maybe those who’ve been desperately trying to get a job or on the housing ladder) but a very large majority of these rioters are just scumbags. There is no ‘aim’ or ‘goal’ in all this

If they had been targeting known hate preachers like choudary (before he was banged up) then maybe I could understand a bit more what they were up to but this is just mindless racism and clowns that just like smashing things up

They’re an embarrassment

The UK in the last 30 years has spawned an underclass of uneducated, feckless individuals who have few responsibilities and no respect for anyone or anything, including themselves.
They are from all racial and ethnic groups, male and female and feel entitled to abuse and attack any symbols of authority, politicians, police, teachers, even bus drivers.
They're free to rob, assault, attack anything or anyone without fear of consequence and are easily mobilised into a rioting mob by anyone with a motive.
To label them Far Right or Hard Left credits them with the ability to have an opinion. They haven't got one.

Grendel · Aug 3, 2024

Otis said:
You sure about that? Don't mean to nitpick, but £100 a night?

At the Allesley hotel?

It's a small point, but I never pay £100 a night for a hotel anywhere.

The holiday inn in Kenilworth was used at one point - it’s £180 a night

Otis · Aug 3, 2024

Nick said:
You keep going to the extremes.

"Doctors and nurses"
"close the borders"

I am not trying to do that. I am just repeating what some are actually saying and many ARE saying close the borders completely. Stop all migrants coming in.

I mention the NHS, because that is an area where migration has been vital

I am pointing out the huge disparity, that's all. Not trying to point score or make wild statements. I am just saying there are extremes of thought.

Nick · Aug 3, 2024

Otis said:
You sure about that? Don't mean to nitpick, but £100 a night?

At the Allesley hotel?

It's a small point, but I never pay £100 a night for a hotel anywhere.

Have you even read what I put?

Yes, well over £100 a night for the hotel I am referring to.

nicksar · Aug 3, 2024

Jamesimus said:
Nick Lowles or Matthew Collins? Both good speakers and interesting blokes.

Just checked and it was Matthew Collins

Sick Boy · Aug 3, 2024

Harry Krishner said:
Distressing scenes to be sure, but I feel there is genuine despair behind it all.

The rioters need to articulate what they are actually rioting about fairly quickly as they are already being dismissed as "far-right" thugs and racists by the MSM and the chronically insensitive.

This article possibly sums up a list of the legitimate grievances that many have: Britain is coming apart at the seams

Islam seems to be the de facto target, which really doesn't surprise me. I know there is no known connection to the Southport murders (yet), but the MO is a familiar one.

Previous generations have shed blood to keep Islam out of Europe. Yes, I am well aware that there are many decent Muslims, but collectively, they do have a habit of swamping any host countries that eventually become predominantly Islamic. Suffice to say this scares a lot of people.

Nice bit of dehumanisation for a Saturday morning.

Otis · Aug 3, 2024

Grendel said:
Sorry most on here will not even discuss controlled migration

Why do you think that is?

I am sure most would. I think the problem lies in HOW you do that. How do you control it?

And what do you do with those genuine people who are actually escaping persecution?

David O'Day · Aug 3, 2024

Nick said:
Do you honestly think there aren't people going into the hotels that "aren't" in the system?

Again, people can be refused asylum and still get benefits.

How would the someone be housed and fed an official immigration hotel if they were not part of the immigration system? Genuine question because it's impossible.

We have an obligation under international law not to let failed asylum seekers starve, why is it wrong that we do this until they are removed from the country?

Alan Dugdales Moustache · Aug 3, 2024

David O'Day said:
Also the "immigration" hotels are a symptom of an underfunded immigration system and the backlog it created.

And as said "illegal" immigrants get fuck all as they are the ones who aren't in the system.

Poor illegal migrants. You should let one share your bedsit .

Nick · Aug 3, 2024

Otis said:
I am not trying to do that. I am just repeating what some are actually saying and many ARE saying close the borders completely. Stop all migrants coming in.

I mention nthe NHS, because that is an area where migration has been vital

I am pointing out the huge disparity, that's all. Not trying to point score or make wild statements. I am just saying there are extremes of thought.

No what you are doing is focusing on what extreme people say while people who aren't extreme are discussing it with you.

It's like me keep quoting some far left terrorist in response to you when you aren't saying that.

Grendel · Aug 3, 2024

Otis said:
Why do you think that is?

I am sure most would. I think the problem lies in HOW you do that. How do you control it?

And what do you do with those genuine people who are actually escaping persecution?

No they won’t as they brand people as Tory nutters, far right extremists, islamaphobic (a term that makes zero sense), Nazis, gammons, ill educated.

Brighton Sky Blue · Aug 3, 2024

eastwoodsdustman said:
I’m sorry but the loss of industry isn’t the root cause of everything thats wrong in the UK.
Sunderland is a prime example with the Nissan plant making it very prosperous but they still aren’t happy are they.
Whether people like it or not people feel they’re not being listened too and are taking to the streets to protest.
They protested at the ballot box with the reform vote. There really arent 4 million far right thugs in the uk. Certainly not that are able to put a cross in a box anyhow.

One car factory in a city that once had many more plus shipbuilding and mining? Mass unemployment and the loss of local pride attached to those industries is pretty significant. Take away loads of jobs, don't replace them and then wonder why there's deprivation and a search for answers from somewhere. Just look at the state of Stoke-on-Trent for a more striking example.

Reform made a front and centre point of immigration being the bogeyman for the nation's problems.

Nick · Aug 3, 2024

David O'Day said:
How would the someone be housed and fed an official immigration hotel if they were not part of the immigration system? Genuine question because it's impossible.

Is it impossible for people to be housed, really? Are you really that naive / dim?

Liquid Gold · Aug 3, 2024

Nick said:
You are obsessing over spending money but missing what I actually said. People see them living in hotels that would cost you or me well over £100 a night, 3 meals a day, heating. They see the state of the hotels and the disrespect that "some" people in them are showing.

But if everybody was living comfortably and we had enough social housing to house British citizens and those granted asylum already then nobody would bat an eyelid.

I understand the perceived unfairness but we have to house those we’ve granted asylum and don’t have the facilities because the state has been gutted.

Nick · Aug 3, 2024

Otis said:
Why do you think that is?

There are perfect examples that people literally say they don't speak to people / mix with people with different political views. Completely unable to debate things properly, unwilling to in fact.

David O'Day · Aug 3, 2024

Nick said:
Is it impossible for people to be housed, really? Are you really that naive / dim?

No, it's impossible for someone who the government is paying to house and feed to be not know by the government thus they are part of of the immigration system.

It's not rocket science Nick.

Macca · Aug 3, 2024

Otis said:
You sure about that? Don't mean to nitpick, but £100 a night?

At the Allesley hotel?

It's a small point, but I never pay £100 a night for a hotel anywhere.

I wouldn't pay 10 pound a night for that hole

Grendel · Aug 3, 2024

Liquid Gold said:
But if everybody was living comfortably and we had enough social housing to house British citizens and those granted asylum already then nobody would bat an eyelid.

I understand the perceived unfairness but we have to house those we’ve granted asylum and don’t have the facilities because the state has been gutted.

It’s not a unique problem to us though is it? Ironically European countries would see these riots as fairly normal

Grendel · Aug 3, 2024

Macca said:
I wouldn't pay 10 pound a night for that hole

It’s been knocked down

Nick · Aug 3, 2024

David O'Day said:
No, it's impossible for someone who the government is paying to house and feed to be not know by the government thus they are part of of the immigration system.

It's not rocket science Nick.

Are you that thick? Using terms like "impossible".

In the real world where most people are, it's as simple as holding a door open for housing.

Liquid Gold · Aug 3, 2024

Grendel said:
It’s not a unique problem to us though is it? Ironically European countries would see these riots as fairly normal

No but I would rather us be the exceptional country we are capable of being and just sit back and laugh at the French having a riot every weekend.

David O'Day · Aug 3, 2024

Nick said:
Are you that thick? Using terms like "impossible".

In the real world where most people are, it's as simple as holding a door open for housing

They check who comes in and out, still if you can't talk without being abusive when you are wrong then so be it

Grendel · Aug 3, 2024

Otis said:
Why do you think that is?

I am sure most would. I think the problem lies in HOW you do that. How do you control it?

And what do you do with those genuine people who are actually escaping persecution?

You mentioned Allesley. It’s actually the Coventry Hill Hotel that houses asylum seekers.

The village has always been a sleepy village with school fetes, cardivals, a village hall with WI gatherings etc.

Now it’s a ghetto. The local shop is raided on a daily basis. They actually now remove items such as washing tablets from the store as they are pinched daily.

At one point the local pub was invaded by hotel residents and it turned into a drug den and had to be closed for a while.

Many of the hotel residents are frequently drunk and abusive. They target young females and make sexualised comments.

That for some people is the reality. How tolerant would you feel living there?

David O'Day · Aug 3, 2024

Nick said:
Are you that thick? Using terms like "impossible".

In the real world where most people are, it's as simple as holding a door open for housing.

Also if you are an illegal undocumented migrant you are not going to hang around where the current version of Border Force normally are.

Brighton Sky Blue · Aug 3, 2024

Otis said:
Woah!! You can't say that. You simply can't.

You are saying "the last 30 years has spawned an underclass of individuals, who have few responsibilities and no respect for anyone or anything, including themselves."

And that they are all from racial and ethnic groups?

Wow. That's unbelievable, not true and not acceptable.

A key wording difference Otis, 'from all', not 'all from', in his defence.

Nick · Aug 3, 2024

David O'Day said:
They check who comes in and out, still if you can't talk without being abusive when you are wrong then so be it

I agree, they should and some do.

Do you honestly think it isn't happening?

Grendel · Aug 3, 2024

Otis said:
Have tried to report that post, but it won't let me.

That needs removing..

It doesn’t

Nick · Aug 3, 2024

Otis said:
Have tried to report that post, but it won't let me.

That needs removing..

Why?

He says "to label them far right or hard left" and from all groups?

Again, this is part of the problem.

Otis · Aug 3, 2024

Brighton Sky Blue said:
A key wording difference Otis, 'from all', not 'all from', in his defence.

Okay, my bad. Misread it.

I know bloody loads of white, British feckless types.

David O'Day · Aug 3, 2024

Nick said:
I agree, they should and some do.

Do you honestly think it isn't happening?

No, not on any real scale because as I said they want to be as far away from somewhere the Border Authorities will check.

The vast, vast majority live in things HMO's etc.

Otis · Aug 3, 2024

Grendel said:
It doesn’t

I misread it. I will delete the post

Brighton Sky Blue · Aug 3, 2024

Otis said:
Okay, my bad. Misread it.

I know bloody loads of white, British feckless types.

Maybe because being an arsehole or not is pretty independent of race and nationality. Except for the French.

duffer · Aug 3, 2024

Harry Krishner said:
Distressing scenes to be sure, but I feel there is genuine despair behind it all.

The rioters need to articulate what they are actually rioting about fairly quickly as they are already being dismissed as "far-right" thugs and racists by the MSM and the chronically insensitive.

This article possibly sums up a list of the legitimate grievances that many have: Britain is coming apart at the seams

Islam seems to be the de facto target, which really doesn't surprise me. I know there is no known connection to the Southport murders (yet), but the MO is a familiar one.

Previous generations have shed blood to keep Islam out of Europe. Yes, I am well aware that there are many decent Muslims, but collectively, they do have a habit of swamping any host countries that eventually become predominantly Islamic. Suffice to say this scares a lot of people.

"Swamping" host countries? You're on the Great Replacement theory rhetoric again here, I'm afraid.

It is a fiction. It is a racist fiction. If you continue propound a racist fiction, here or elsewhere, then I'm sorry, but you are by definition, a racist.

It's the fiction and the unchallenged repeating of it that scares people, not the reality.

Name a European country that is in danger of being "swamped" by Muslims?

Without looking it up, what proportion of Muslims do you think live in the country now, and how long do you think it would take for them to become a majority of the population?

Nick · Aug 3, 2024

David O'Day said:
Also if you are an illegal undocumented migrant you are not going to hang around where the current version of Border Force normally are.

Yep, they are there 24/7.

It makes me wonder if people actually leave the house sometimes.

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