Gathering for Tommy / Discontent (24 Viewers)

[Deleted member 5849]

What I could imagine is Thatcher's response to this... and it'd be pretty brutal in its putdown.

 

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[eastwoodsdustman]

I’m sorry but the loss of industry isn’t the root cause of everything thats wrong in the UK.
Sunderland is a prime example with the Nissan plant making it very prosperous but they still aren’t happy are they.
Whether people like it or not people feel they’re not being listened too and are taking to the streets to protest.
They protested at the ballot box with the reform vote. There really arent 4 million far right thugs in the uk. Certainly not that are able to put a cross in a box anyhow.

 

[Adge]

“We’re doing it for you and we can’t do it without you-so like-subscribe and more importantly donate and here is the link. Do you like my Rolex watch by the way?”…………..,

 

[Nick]

“We’re doing it for you and we can’t do it without you-so like-subscribe and more importantly donate and here is the link. Do you like my Rolex watch by the way?”…………..,

Said it in the thread about him years ago, I have absolutely no idea what drives people to give him money.

 

[Boicey]

Agree completely on violent attacks- nobody should be doing that.

Do you think immigration at any point can be a problem? Or do you believe that the UK can allow an infinite number of people in?

If you do think there's a limit, or a point that it doesn't start to affect the population that's already here - can you give me a figure?

The Conservative free market was supposed to be the answer. Free movement of labour to meet flexible market demand.
There are issues, many are vastly exaggerated.
But then again
'Muslims, Islam, P****, burn a Mosque', Tommy, EDL, brick the police, burn a police station.
Isn't it, is it?

 

[Diogenes]

The Conservative free market was supposed to be the answer. Free movement of labour to meet flexible market demand.
There are issues, many are vastly exaggerated.
But then again
'Muslims, Islam, P****, burn a Mosque', Tommy, EDL, brick the police, burn a police station.
Isn't it, is it?

What's that got to do with the question I asked?

 

[Boicey]

What's that got to do with the question I asked?

Because the free market was supposed to manage immigration numbers to demand.
The rest is to counter your nonsense about this violence being somehow the British people 'rising against the establishment'.
It's thugs being led by far right idiots like Yaxley-Lennon to target Muslims.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Sunderland is a prime example with the Nissan plant making it very prosperous

You see I'd go with your argument but Sunderland's still got great poverty *despite* Nissan - it's been a fraction of what was lost and far more than around these parts, which is still well down on its heydey despite JLR and a couple of others. In a general sense it suffers a bit for being number two to Newcastle - it sees the investment go there, and Newcastle becoming fashionable and feels left behind. You get that in other places too - Swansea to Cardiff for example. Go outside a bit to the likes of Darlington and it gets worse... and it is fair to say that as with about the whole country, there's a feeling everything is London-centric. In many ways Johnson had the right idea with levelling up, but the fact it hasn't actually happens magnifies the issues.

So yeah, I'm not denying that feelings about immigration contribute, but if everything else were well there'd be no need to blame other groups or communities. You're right (assuming it was you! Apologies if not!) that people look for a reason and a target to make it easier to understand and explain, even if that target isn't a fair one.

At the same time, current disturbances are clearly being stirred by people who don't want to try and come up with the answers. To a degree it might be best to ignore them and focus on those who are vulnerable to their message, and what we can do to stop them being indoctrinated / radicalised.

 

[Otis]

Lots of ethnic minorities and migrants working in the NHS and care system, as doctors and nurses and carers etc

Nowt to stop a white British person from doing these same jobs.

I know there aren't that many right wing thugs, but the problem is, it doesn't take many to then fire everyone else up.

They turn up and cause trouble and it must be very easy to join in, throwing bricks, start overturning cars and setting fire to them and looting.

Doesn't take much to instigate things. Same with thuggy anarchists.

 

[torchomatic]

What I could imagine is Thatcher's response to this... and it'd be pretty brutal in its putdown.

Yep, you only have to look at Orgreave to see what she would have done.

 

[Harry Krishner]

Distressing scenes to be sure, but I feel there is genuine despair behind it all.

The rioters need to articulate what they are actually rioting about fairly quickly as they are already being dismissed as "far-right" thugs and racists by the MSM and the chronically insensitive.

This article possibly sums up a list of the legitimate grievances that many have: Britain is coming apart at the seams

Islam seems to be the de facto target, which really doesn't surprise me. I know there is no known connection to the Southport murders (yet), but the MO is a familiar one.

Previous generations have shed blood to keep Islam out of Europe. Yes, I am well aware that there are many decent Muslims, but collectively, they do have a habit of swamping any host countries that eventually become predominantly Islamic. Suffice to say this scares a lot of people.

 

[torchomatic]

Lots of ethnic minorities and migrants working in the NHS and care system, as doctors and nurses and carers etc

Nowt to stop a white British person from doing these same jobs.

I know there aren't that many right wing thugs, but the problem is, it doesn't take many to then fire everyone else up.

They turn up and cause trouble and it must be very easy to join in, throwing bricks, start overturning cars and setting fire to them and looting.

Doesn't take much to instigate things. Same with thuggy anarchists.

Yep, loads of videos on Twitter. Thugs surrounding a taxi. Another video of Kids kicking in the front door of a terraced house.

 

[Otis]

Distressing scenes to be sure, but I feel there is genuine despair behind it all.

The rioters need to articulate what they are actually rioting about fairly quickly as they are already being dismissed as "far-right" thugs and racists by the MSM and the chronically insensitive.

This article possibly sums up a list of the legitimate grievances that many have: Britain is coming apart at the seams

Islam seems to be the de facto target, which really doesn't surprise me. I know there is no known connection to the Southport murders (yet), but the MO is a familiar one.

Previous generations have shed blood to keep Islam out of Europe. Yes, I am well aware that there are many decent Muslims, but collectively, they do have a habit of swamping any host countries that eventually become predominantly Islamic. Suffice to say this scares a lot of people.

Does It not worry you that, like you say, there is no known connection to Islam to the Southport murders yet, but people target mosques anyway? Just because the MO is similar.

 

[Boicey]

Previous generations have shed blood to keep Islam out of Europe. Yes, I am well aware that there are many decent Muslims, but collectively, they do have a habit of swamping any host countries that eventually become predominantly Islamic. Suffice to say this scares a lot of people.

Any examples in that total nonsense?
Ps. Muslims are people, individuals.

 

[Nick]

Lots of ethnic minorities and migrants working in the NHS and care system, as doctors and nurses and carers etc

Nowt to stop a white British person from doing these same jobs.

I know there aren't that many right wing thugs, but the problem is, it doesn't take many to then fire everyone else up.

They turn up and cause trouble and it must be very easy to join in, throwing bricks, start overturning cars and setting fire to them and looting.

Doesn't take much to instigate things. Same with thuggy anarchists.

Again, people go straight to NHS workers if anybody mentions immigration concerns.

 

[Otis]

Distressing scenes to be sure, but I feel there is genuine despair behind it all.

The rioters need to articulate what they are actually rioting about fairly quickly as they are already being dismissed as "far-right" thugs and racists by the MSM and the chronically insensitive.

This article possibly sums up a list of the legitimate grievances that many have: Britain is coming apart at the seams

Islam seems to be the de facto target, which really doesn't surprise me. I know there is no known connection to the Southport murders (yet), but the MO is a familiar one.

Previous generations have shed blood to keep Islam out of Europe. Yes, I am well aware that there are many decent Muslims, but collectively, they do have a habit of swamping any host countries that eventually become predominantly Islamic. Suffice to say this scares a lot of people.

Have you examples of where host countries have been swamped and then become predominantly Islamic?

 

[Otis]

Again, people go straight to NHS workers if anybody mentions immigration concerns.

It's not that though is it. Just one of the arguments against migration always seems to be that they come over here, get benefits and take our jobs.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Any examples in that total nonsense?
Ps. Muslims are people, individuals.

You see what I see is an MO that's similar to people who've been rejected for a job / by a woman etc and go a little bit mental.

I'll probably end up totally wrong on that, which is why it's best not to speculate or come to judgement really isn't it!

 

[Boicey]

Do me a favour and please quote me where I have said that these riots are the British people "rising against the establishment".

Apologies that was meant for Eastwoodsdustman

 

[Nick]

Yep, loads of videos on Twitter. Thugs surrounding a taxi. Another video of Kids kicking in the front door of a terraced house.

There always will be, it was a couple of weeks ago you had kids in Leeds being encouraged to attack police cars by their parents but strangely you had nothing to say about it and police were running away.

If it's a different demographic you are sat finding as many videos about it as you can. Even when asked about it, just completely ignored.

Its literally no different to somebody sitting online looking for as much as they can find about Muslims or immigrants.

Its stuff like this that is part of the problem. Notice the "part" and not "all of".

 

[Nick]

You see what I see is an MO that's similar to people who've been rejected for a job / by a woman etc and go a little bit mental.

I'll probably end up totally wrong on that, which is why it's best not to speculate or come to judgement really isn't it!

I'd say there's more chance of him being a radical Muslim than him being turned down for a job at the nursery.

 

[Boicey]

There always will be, it was a couple of weeks ago you had kids in Leeds being encouraged to attack police cars by their parents but strangely you had nothing to say about it and police were running away.

If it's a different demographic you are sat finding as many videos about it as you can. Even when asked about it, just completely ignored.

Its literally no different to somebody sitting online looking for as much as they can find about Muslims or immigrants.

Its stuff like this that is part of the problem. Notice the "part" and not "all of".

Do you see anything different about individual Muslims being targeted in their homes, shops, taxis, mosques?
The fear they feel as individuals and for their families?

 

[Nick]

It's not that though is it. Just one of the arguments against migration always seems to be that they come over here, get benefits and take our jobs.

So clearly if they are working they aren't taking benefits?

 

[Grendel]

Lots of ethnic minorities and migrants working in the NHS and care system, as doctors and nurses and carers etc

Nowt to stop a white British person from doing these same jobs.

I know there aren't that many right wing thugs, but the problem is, it doesn't take many to then fire everyone else up.

They turn up and cause trouble and it must be very easy to join in, throwing bricks, start overturning cars and setting fire to them and looting.

Doesn't take much to instigate things. Same with thuggy anarchists.

Around 200,000 non uk nationals work in the health system

Net migration was 700,000 last year

 

[Otis]

So clearly if they are working they aren't taking benefits?

Yes.

One or the other. They are always accused. Either taking our jobs OR claiming benefits.

 

[Otis]

Around 200,000 non uk nationals work in the health system

Net migration was 700,000 last year

Do you have the figures for those working in other industries and fields, out of interest?

 

[Nick]

Have you examples of where host countries have been swamped and then become predominantly Islamic?

'Our system has collapsed. We are at the end. The main reason for this is the continuing influx of refugees,' he said. 'I'm calling for a freeze on refugee admissions, otherwise it would no longer be possible to provide help.'

 

[Otis]

Who's "he?"

 

[torchomatic]

Around 200,000 non uk nationals work in the health system

Net migration was 700,000 last year

So, why didn't Brexit allow us to "take control of our borders"? That's the lie they sold, wasn't it?

 

[clint van damme]

So clearly if they are working they aren't taking benefits?

No. But that's exactly the same contradictory tropes that used to be aimed at black people, mainly afro caribbean, back in the day.

 

[Nick]

Yes.

One or the other. They are always accused. Either taking our jobs OR claiming benefits.

I bet you will find that the vast majority of people with issues about immigration have no issue with people working in the NHS. Working and contributing, full stop.

It's just a go to argument about doctors, nurses and engineers.

 

[Grendel]

So, why didn't Brexit allow us to "take control of our borders"? That's the lie they sold, wasn't it?

Well it clearly does allow it

Mr Starmer says he will act. This isn’t a Tory issue - remember Blair considered shipping migrants to a deserted Scottish island

 

[Nick]

Who's "he?"

It's not a "far right thug" or somebody annoyed at doctors and nurses.

 

[Liquid Gold]

I think the issue is inequality and poverty.

We’ve had 40 years of free market trickle down and it hasn’t worked. People feel completely left behind and that has been used by nefarious actors to direct towards migrants.

The ruling class with be running their hands at us going against each other while they keep skimming everything of the top and sending it to the Caymans.

 

[Boicey]

I bet you will find that the vast majority of people with issues about immigration have no issue with people working in the NHS. Working and contributing, full stop.

It's just a go to argument about doctors, nurses and engineers.

I thought the 'go to' argument also included:
working in hotels, hospitality
carers
cleaners
food processing
Fruit pickers