Gathering for Tommy / Discontent (20 Viewers)

[Nick]

I'm not

Surprised at some of the comments on here though.

Not enough condemning and too much focus on supposed two facedness.

Surely everyone has to condemn all this. Some can't seemingly even bring themselves to do that and just want to justify WHY it has happened.

Even if there is justification for people to feel they are not listened to, this is not the answer

Maybe people are pissed off with the two facedness in general, not just on here so that's why it gets brought up?

You are saying not enough condemning, when I condemned some of the rioting previously it didn't go down too well. That's why I am bringing up the two facedness from particular people.

Not aimed at you by the way, whether I agree or disagree with you on stuff you are pretty much consistent throughout. Apart from Russians

 

---

[JAM See]

All riots are wrong.

Nope.

 

[torchomatic]

Lord Gower being a Tory c**t.

 

[Nick]

See now that's a very fair point.

And I don't think they want it to stop.

They likely want the state to escalate and go too far.

I almost sense a bit of pride on them, getting kicks from it. Like a kid "look at my painting".

They should be saying that they understand concerns and issues but that is the complete wrong way to go about it. Again, much like that Imam from Liverpool.

 

[Evo1883]

I'm not

Surprised at some of the comments on here though.

Not enough condemning and too much focus on supposed two facedness.

Surely everyone has to condemn all this. Some can't seemingly even bring themselves to do that and just want to justify WHY it has happened.

Even if there is justification for people to feel they are not listened to, this is not the answer

I think the government have repeatedly lied to the public about the ability to control immigration .. it's always been a hot topic and a thing many voters deem important ..

The country even voted leave pretty much because they were told (and lied to ) that uncontrolled immigration would be nipped in the bud .

What really needs to happen is a proper honest conversation about this , where politicians tell the public ( many who are not rioting but are at home and want action to tackle uncontrolled migration and their communities being changed without a care for what they think ) what they plan to do and if it's actually achievable , instead of lying for votes

And they don't want to be called far right for thinking it , I think uncontrolled immigration is a joke and out of control and I'm not "far right"

 

[Deleted member 5849]

What are they for anyway? The Middlesborough(sic. Clearly not locals organising then!) march was advertised thus:

So if I turned up reciting Tennyson and playing Handel (damn, he was an immigrant, best play some William Byrd) on my lute (damn, Muslim links. How about a viol?) would I have fitted in?

Pro-British? Great. So that's a tolerant open country who sees itself as treating people justly rather than resorting to violence? Great.

Bring flags? OK, a nice Rainbow flag.

Passion?

 

[djr8369]

Do you not understand the frustrations around this that have been growing over the last few years?

When you say “this” you mean immigration? Yeah, sure. I still don’t like people doing nazi salutes and attacking random mosques though.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

See now that's a very fair point.

And I don't think they want it to stop.

They likely want the state to escalate and go too far.

This is why talk of ‘send the army in’ concerns me. One miscalculation and the state kills one of its own.

 

[Otis]

Nope.

I say they are. Innocents always get hurt and businesses get caught up in it all and looting ensues etc.

I have no problem with protests. I do have a problem with violence.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Farage has called for violence to stop

Explicitly? Where?

 

[Ring Of Steel]

See, this is the problem. You want an explanation of the causes of these riots, but not prepared to give one for the BLM riots

i just did. BLM was institutional racism. If you want some kind of ‘verification’ look at the findings of the Met Police & the fact that the city of Bristol worked to remove all trace of Colston. The causes of Palestine are clear.

Here there is no link between what happened in Southport and what’s happening now. It’s an excuse for disgusting people to do disgusting things, end of.

And I condemn anything where protest turns to rioting. There is it, in black and white for you.

Would you say the same I wonder?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

There was no austerity at that time. He spent shitloads

In law breaking and dodgy contracts for his mates perhaps

 

[Nick]

I think the government have repeatedly lied to the public about the ability to control immigration .. it's always been a hot topic and a thing many voters deem important ..

The country even voted leave pretty much because they were told (and lied to ) that uncontrolled immigration would be nipped in the bud .

What really needs to happen is a proper honest conversation about this , where politicians tell the public ( many who are not rioting) but are at home and want action to tackle uncontrolled migration and their communities being changed without a care for what they think .

And they don't want to be called far right for thinking it , I think uncontrolled immigration is a joke and out of control and I'm not "far right"

Exactly this.

People are worried that they get branded the same as the pricks rioting for raising concerns if they speak about them. You only need to look in this thread to see people are unwilling to discuss it and will just jump all over and try and pretend.

 

[chiefdave]

What law would that be?

Nationality and Borders Act or llegal Migration Act I would imagine. You'd have entered the country under deception, unless you're talking about Sur-place applications but those are a tiny percentage.

And of course you have the issue of who is issuing tourist visa's to potential asylum seekers. I can't imagine that's easy.

 

[bigfatronssba]

When you say “this” you mean immigration? Yeah, sure. I still don’t like people doing nazi salutes and attacking random mosques though.

Immigration is one thing (the level, not necessarily the principle)

But more importantly the two tier justice system we seem to have. That applies to the likes of Just Stop Oil blocking roads as well

 

[Nick]

i just did. BLM was institutional racism. If you want some kind of ‘verification’ look at the findings of the Met Police & the fact that the city of Bristol worked to remove all trace of Colston. The causes of Palestine are clear.

Here there is no link between what happened in Southport and what’s happening now. It’s an excuse for disgusting people to do disgusting things, end of.

And I condemn anything where protest turns to rioting. There is it, in black and white for you.

Would you say the same I wonder?

In all instances it's disgusting people behaving in disgusting ways when people are looting, causing criminal damage, attacking the police etc.

Whether it's about racism, immigration or anything and there is pointless violence it's exactly the same.

 

[bigfatronssba]

i just did. BLM was institutional racism. If you want some kind of ‘verification’ look at the findings of the Met Police & the fact that the city of Bristol worked to remove all trace of Colston. The causes of Palestine are clear.

Here there is no link between what happened in Southport and what’s happening now. It’s an excuse for disgusting people to do disgusting things, end of.

And I condemn anything where protest turns to rioting. There is it, in black and white for you.

Would you say the same I wonder?

Yes I would. What is happening here and now is wrong.

What happened in Bristol in 2021 was wrong

Agree?

Also, if you think these riots are all about Southport then you aren't listening. One of our soldiers was stabbed multiple times in the street last week and it barely made the news

 

[wingy]

Be fair- they're only doing that/looting vape shops/burning libraries cos...checks notes...they cant get a dentists appointment

Your right about that TBF ,all I want is a prescription for an abscess!

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Yes I would. What is happening here and now is wrong.

What happened in Bristol in 2021 was wrong

Agree?

Also, if you think these riots are all about Southport then you aren't listening. One of our soldiers was stabbed multiple times in the street last week and it barely made the news

So articulate what it is about then?

 

[bigfatronssba]

In law breaking and dodgy contracts for his mates perhaps

He basically nationalised the economy during lockdown

Hence all the inflation

 

[wingy]

Must be like when I pointed out the trouble in BLM or Palestine threads where everybody just agreed that some people were being cunts? Oh, wait.

They haven't been riot's have they?

 

[chiefdave]

What really needs to happen is a proper honest conversation about this , where politicians tell the public ( many who are not rioting but are at home and want action to tackle uncontrolled migration and their communities being changed without a care for what they think ) what they plan to do and if it's actually achievable , instead of lying for votes

Absolutely agree with this but I fear that the type of people out rioting don't really want to engage in those conversations. I've asked the question on here, what would you do from the point we are at now, and been met with nothing but laughing emojis.

Unfortunately there is a group of people for whom 'solving' immigration means not just not letting anyone in but removing people who don't conform to their ideal. That's just not going to be possible on any level.

 

[duffer]

They do have legitimate channels. They buy a plane ticket, and then at arrival on the border they request asylum

The small boats lot are the equivalent of someone who kicks your door in and then asks to use your phone because they need help. The answer from most normal people would be f. off.

Do you seriously think people would take all of the risk and expense of travelling across Europe and then jumping on an overloaded small inflatable to cross the busiest shipping lane in the world if they could just hop on a plane and do it?

C'mon mate, try harder.

 

[bigfatronssba]

Explicitly? Where?

22 seconds in

 

[Nick]

They haven't been riot's have they?

On about the trouble or when I said stuff about mindless behaviour in America as well.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Yes I would. What is happening here and now is wrong.

What happened in Bristol in 2021 was wrong

Agree?

Also, if you think these riots are all about Southport then you aren't listening. One of our soldiers was stabbed multiple times in the street last week and it barely made the news

in the interests of openness I heard about it but I know very little of the facts. So these questions are genuine as opposed to anything else… who stabbed him, was he an immigrant and/or Muslim?

 

[wingy]

He basically nationalised the economy during lockdown

Hence all the inflation

Which has filtered up the chain and got back to the elite?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Must be like when I pointed out the trouble in BLM or Palestine threads where everybody just agreed that some people were being cunts? Oh, wait.

Shame you were deliberately disengenuous and obstructive over them, looked for the ah but, and wouldn't accept it was a minority while the majority actually protested peacefully. Meanwhile, people are quite happy to condemn those who caused violence but they were *not* the rallies. If there was actually a minority here it would be the minority, but it's the sodding whole point of them!

Still, anything to deflect eh? Bit pathetic I'd call it, bit underhand... sly, you might say in fact. Maybe even a spot of sly shit stirring from you?

 

[JAM See]

I say they are. Innocents always get hurt and businesses get caught up in it all and looting ensues etc.

I have no problem with protests. I do have a problem with violence.

How else are the working class supposed to express disaffection with the owners of production?

Twee flag waving and protest songs?

Protests are good, but mainly the voice of us, the middle class.

Riots are the true anger of the proletariat.

Don't condemn them out of hand, seek the true source of their anger.

Trust me, it's not immigrants.

 

[wingy]

On about the trouble or when I said stuff about mindless behaviour in America as well.

Oh no sorry if I've been misconstrued,the Palestine marches!

 

[Deleted member 5849]

It was exactly the same in BLM. All people had to do was nod and agree that Black Lives do indeed Matter. End of thread.

 

[Otis]

Yes I would. What is happening here and now is wrong.

What happened in Bristol in 2021 was wrong

Agree?

Also, if you think these riots are all about Southport then you aren't listening. One of our soldiers was stabbed multiple times in the street last week and it barely made the news

Enough is enough and the rioting, started as a result of the Southport stabbing.

That was the catalyst and people clearly thought the guy was a Muslim. Definitely a huge factor.

It was one murder spree that tipped the scale, but hand on heart, had it be immediately announced that the bloke was born here and was a Christian, I don't think the riots would have happened.

I am certain of it actually.

It would have been the next Muslim led attack that would have tipped it

 

[bigfatronssba]

So articulate what it is about then?

1. 20 years of concerns about immigration being ignored
2. 20 years of branding anyone who points of the problem of high level immigration as "racist"
3. Two tier policing where the Met go out of their way to condone calls for Jihad on the streets of London whilst at the same time a man who sold anti immigration stickers got 2 years inside
4. An absolute denial in all media, govt, and the legal system that immigration has downsides as well as up.

Maybe for a start stop calling people names if they suggest not everything about large scale immigration isn't good?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

22 seconds in

Saying ‘I don’t support street violence’ is not the same as saying ‘get off the streets’ or some other directive statement.

 

[bigfatronssba]

Do you seriously think people would take all of the risk and expense of travelling across Europe and then jumping on an overloaded small inflatable to cross the busiest shipping lane in the world if they could just hop on a plane and do it?

C'mon mate, try harder.

If your life was legitimately in danger in your home country, why, after finding safety in France would you then once again risk your life in the English Channel?