General Election 2019 thread (68 Viewers)

[Sick Boy]

Didn't catch her name...but a Labour MP/ex-MP was saying yesterday that Corbynism looked attractive initially with austerity a genuine target in 2017. Since, it got found out & the voters turned against it in droves & hence we have this result. Went on to say that we (Labour) have to move away from Corbyn & Momentum ideals. We have to be more open-minded to people & listen to them & properly consider what they are saying. We cannot just keep telling people they are wrong because they disagree with us & then just shout them down every time they voice their opinion.

I think she was talking to you Tony/Schmmeee/Mart/BSB/Claude/SickBoy & one or two others on here

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Don’t bring me into it, I can’t stand Monentum and couldn’t bring myself to vote for Corbyn.

Both sides are also good at shouting down the others. Until the country stops being Londoncentric the country is going to have problems, nothing about the Tories or Brexit is going to change that though.

 

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[Ian1779]

The problem was that people just like yourself couldn't bring yourself to see the facts.it was much easier to insult someone than consider the truth.

Corbyn was an absolute disaster for Labour. But too many constantly made excuses for him. And anyone who disagreed was there to be insulted. But the bloke just wasn't electable in any way.

We need to move along. We need to find a leader that is likeable. We need someone strong yet who doesn't want to demolish everything. Someone without skeletons in the closet stretching back 40 years or more.

At least the discussion on Corbyn being the right person to lead Labour should now be finished.

I believed in him because I was sick of champagne politics by people that didn’t give a fuck. He had a different style - a compassion that you rarely see. I make no apologies for supporting and defending him. Was that naive in the cold light of day? Yes because sadly that style didn’t work for the people of this country. We clearly are not ready to be led by decent human beings - ideology is too important a thing.

But the next leader should beware. The lies will follow in the same way. Just take a look at this....

 

[tisza]

I believed in him because I was sick of champagne politics by people that didn’t give a fuck. He had a different style - a compassion that you rarely see. I make no apologies for supporting and defending him. Was that naive in the cold light of day? Yes because sadly that style didn’t work for the people of this country. We clearly are not ready to be led by decent human beings - ideology is too important a thing.

But the next leader should beware. The lies will follow in the same way. Just take a look at this....

View attachment 13678

My fear is we end up down the American road. Have people seen how they run their campaigns (at all levels)?
The TV/multi media ads literally libelling each other and not caring as they know the election will be done and the supposed organizations making the libellous claims wound up before anything can be done about it.

 

[mark82]

The problem was that people just like yourself couldn't bring yourself to see the facts.it was much easier to insult someone than consider the truth.

Corbyn was an absolute disaster for Labour. But too many constantly made excuses for him. And anyone who disagreed was there to be insulted. But the bloke just wasn't electable in any way.

We need to move along. We need to find a leader that is likeable. We need someone strong yet who doesn't want to demolish everything. Someone without skeletons in the closet stretching back 40 years or more.

At least the discussion on Corbyn being the right person to lead Labour should now be finished.

He wasn't electable because the press made it so. His big issue was he wasn't strong enough to stand up to it. That was his downfall. I didn't agree with all his policies but he's a principled man who deserves a lot of credit for not getting into the usual lies and deception common in politics - even though this was eventually to his detriment. Was destroyed by the press from day one and never really stood a chance. Was never really the right man for the job in all honesty, almost need him behind the scenes pulling the strings with a more media friendly face up front (without being cynical, probably need someone who can lie & deceive to Boris levels. Someone to appeal to the majority who don't look beyond soundbites and headlines - they are the ones that win elections, not the smaller minority who actually care about substance, regardless of political persuasion).

 

[tisza]

How about some of these Labour MPs who lost their seats in Leave areas stop blaming Corbyn and put their hands up and say "my fault I didn't follow my constituents wishes".
Corbyn is well-known for following his own views and defying the party whip in the past (and probably in the future) - so couldn't object to MPs doing what their constituents wanted.

 

[covmark]

An IQ test isn’t a test of gullibility it’s a measurement of how good you are at doing IQ tests, nothing else.

That's great. Keep looking down your nose at people, you're as bad as those that throw around the leftie snowflake comments.
In your opinion those who believe differently to you are plebs. They're entitled to their, beliefs, opinions and votes, however much you or I disagree with them.
Voters put differing levels of importance to certain issues when voting. Some find Brexit the the most important issue.
I tend to disagree, but I dont feel the need to brand them thick, or plebs.

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[Astute]

So many Labour voters said they just couldn't come out an put an X on their ballot paper because of Corbyn.

Correct. And I was one of them.

Remember how wrong I was supposed to have been for saying so? But never mind. If the truth doesn't sound good it can always be ignored. All sides are good at it.

 

[tisza]

He wasn't electable because the press made it so. His big issue was he wasn't strong enough to stand up to it. That was his downfall. I didn't agree with all his policies but he's a principled man who deserves a lot of credit for not getting into the usual lies and deception common in politics - even though this was eventually to his detriment. Was destroyed by the press from day one and never really stood a chance. Was never really the right man for the job in all honesty, almost need him behind the scenes pulling the strings with a more media friendly face up front (without being cynical, probably need someone who can lie & deceive to Boris levels. Someone to appeal to the majority who don't look beyond soundbites and headlines - they are the ones that win elections, not the smaller minority who actually care about substance, regardless of political persuasion).

I admire politicians with firm principles (of any political hue) that aren't based on offensive -isms.
The media may have given him a rough ride but a fair bit was fed from inside the Labour Party. Nobody from the Tory side was leaking Andrew Fisher's email for example.
His association with Momentum hasn't helped - time and time again their loutish behaviour has been over all forms of the media - from older voters I've heard that they remind them of Militant and their toxicity.
The left-wing media tried push the dirt on Johnson (wasn't hard to find) but for some reason it failed to take off.
Labour party needs a clean break from Corbyn. The media isn't going to let a candidate backed by Corbyn have a free ride as they'll just be accused of being a Corbyn and Momentum puppet. Already it looks like Corbyn staying on is so that he can influence who his successor is.
Think Corbyn also suffers from appearing mild-mannered (almost school masterly) which gives an appearance of indecisiveness and'or weakness. Johnson's loudness gives a visual appearance of confidence and strength (regardless of what he maybe waffling on about). People don't read "anymore" they are hooked by visual media. The Americans fell for it with Trump and the UK has done so with Johnson - I think almost any other current Tory would have struggled leading their party to a majority in this election.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

The left-wing media tried push the dirt on Johnson (wasn't hard to find) but for some reason it failed to take off.

It never has!

Think Corbyn also suffers from appearing mild-mannered (almost school masterly) which gives an appearance of indecisiveness and'or weakness.

There are times when Corbyn's nuanced answer is the 'right' answer, but you can see what the newspaper headline will be in advance because he won't give a two or three word quotable answer.

 

[Grendel]

He wasn't electable because the press made it so. His big issue was he wasn't strong enough to stand up to it. That was his downfall. I didn't agree with all his policies but he's a principled man who deserves a lot of credit for not getting into the usual lies and deception common in politics - even though this was eventually to his detriment. Was destroyed by the press from day one and never really stood a chance. Was never really the right man for the job in all honesty, almost need him behind the scenes pulling the strings with a more media friendly face up front (without being cynical, probably need someone who can lie & deceive to Boris levels. Someone to appeal to the majority who don't look beyond soundbites and headlines - they are the ones that win elections, not the smaller minority who actually care about substance, regardless of political persuasion).

Utter shite

Corbyn a man of principle? He’s a dinosaur rabble rouser out of his depth. Even people with talent in his own party viewed him with contempt

He is like a bloke who sells computer games for a living and says he’s got the latest think gets everyone excited and pulls out his Atari. His brand of socialism was condemned to the rubbish bin decades ago

Unlike Jeremy Corbyn Alan Johnson is a comprehensive educated man with a working class background. Read his comments on Corbyn

This man of principle can’t even bring himself to apologise or resign. He’s clinging on to his salary for as long as he can - any other leader whose led a car crash would have gone

Stoo blaming these press and oh so thick Sun readers - you sound like that whining bitch Owen Jones

 

[tisza]

We now live in an era of total denial

People like Caroline Lucas frantically posting everywhere that the conservatives lost, there is no mandate to leave the EU lets protest - it’s just a joke

Lucas wants a referendum now on the voting system - that’s odd - we had one and she lost - oh have another so I win.

Labour are kidding themselves it was not Corbyn that lost the election but one policy and they really won on policy - keep the policy and keep Jeremy then

Her screeching acceptance speech was just embarrassing.
I do get amused with these Labour candidates/TV talking heads that are saying the manifesto was the same as the one that "nearly" won them the last election. They were 55 seats behind the Tories and 64 off a majority in 2017.

 

[Astute]

All hail him! He can do no wrong and will bring prosperity to all!

Too late. Need to change your tune. Your messiah Corbyn is finished

 

[tisza]

It never has!


There are times when Corbyn's nuanced answer is the 'right' answer, but you can see what the newspaper headline will be in advance because he won't give a two or three word quotable answer.

You make it sound like there's only one newspaper. Mirror, Guardian and Independent have all given Corbyn support.
All these papers have carried columnists and stories that have attacked Johnson's character - whether it be on his changeable support for Brexit, his personal life or other issues. All have made hay with relationship with his brother and tried to flame the story about that American girlfriend for example.
I fail to see how Corbyn and the people around him are so naive about how modern vote-gathering works (rightly or wrongly that's the "game"). It is about sound bytes etc.
People aren't going to sit there trying to figure out nuances.

 

[Grendel]

An IQ test isn’t a test of gullibility it’s a measurement of how good you are at doing IQ tests, nothing else.

You voted for UKIP you utter doughnut and even defended them in here

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

Lefties are hilarious on this thread, an embarrassment.... cheer up ya commie leader will never be in charge

 

[skybluetony176]

You voted for UKIP you utter doughnut and even defended them in here

You voted for “the man” and endorsed him verbally constantly on here. I used my vote in a European Election as a protest to the EU to take the risk of the U.K. voting leave seriously and take David Cameron’s negotiations with them seriously ahead of the referendum. You now criticise me for voting someone you waxed lyrical over and for defending people like you who voted for him as an endorsement of policy. You also brag about having a high IQ as if it validates your opinion on anything over other people you believe to be less intelligent than you. The many ironies of your post certainly proves that a high IQ score is only a measurement of an ability to do an IQ test and nothing else as there’s nothing intellectual about your post.

 

[Grendel]

You voted for “the man” and endorsed him verbally constantly on here. I used my vote in a European Election as a protest to the EU to take the risk of the U.K. voting leave seriously and take David Cameron’s negotiations with them seriously ahead of the referendum. You now criticise me for voting someone you waxed lyrical over and for defending people like you who voted for him as an endorsement of policy. You also brag about having a high IQ as if it validates your opinion on anything over other people you believe to be less intelligent than you. The many ironies of your post certainly proves that a high IQ score is only a measurement of an ability to do an IQ test and nothing else as there’s nothing intellectual about your post.

I’ve never mentioned my IQ and I never have called people plebs or thickos - I’ve never voted UKIP and I’ve never defended them against charges of racism - that’s you Tony

 

[skybluetony176]

That's great. Keep looking down your nose at people, you're as bad as those that throw around the leftie snowflake comments.
In your opinion those who believe differently to you are plebs. They're entitled to their, beliefs, opinions and votes, however much you or I disagree with them.
Voters put differing levels of importance to certain issues when voting. Some find Brexit the the most important issue.
I tend to disagree, but I dont feel the need to brand them thick, or plebs.

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I think a lot of traditional labour voters who voted Tory hold the same opinions and values as me so I don’t actually think they do believe different to me on a lot of the issues of not most of the issues that this country face. They have however allowed themselves to be blindsided on a single issue and manipulated by someone who shares non of their values and opinions into voting for them. Sorry but that’s the very definition of a pleb.

 

[fatso]

The only Labour politician who has impressed me over the last couple of years is Steven Kinnock. Makes a lot of sense and could do well if given the chance. Am surprised his name does not get mentioned at all with regard to future leadership of the Labour party. Mind you, thought his old man was a right wind bag!!!

His families total abuse of the EU parliaments gravy train will ensure that Steven Kinnock will never get a sniff of a chance of party leadership.

 

[fatso]

I think a lot of traditional labour voters who voted Tory hold the same opinions and values as me so I don’t actually think they do believe different to me on a lot of the issues of not most of the issues that this country face. They have however allowed themselves to be blindsided on a single issue and manipulated by someone who shares non of their values and opinions into voting for them. Sorry but that’s the very definition of a pleb.

Totally wrong.
Your convincing yourself that labour voters don’t understand policy,
All those I work with, (who expressed an opinion) new that Corbyn’s policies just didn’t add up financially.
You can only tax the rich so much before they leave the country, You can only tax businesses so much before they stop investing in the uk, and take the jobs elsewhere.
The plan to nationalise power, rail, etc was just plain laughable.
Free broadband for all was just a pathetic policy.
Labour voters could see through Corbyn’s bullshit, and gave up on him on mass.
But if you want to kid yourself that Brexit was the only reason they lost, then you carry on my friend, But you couldn’t possibly be more deluded.

 

[skybluetony176]

I’ve never mentioned my IQ and I never have called people plebs or thickos

Ha ha ha. Yeah OK.

 

[skybluetony176]

Totally wrong.
Your convincing yourself that labour voters don’t understand policy,
All those I work with, (who expressed an opinion) new that Corbyn’s policies just didn’t add up financially.
You can only tax the rich so much before they leave the country, You can only tax businesses so much before they stop investing in the uk, and take the jobs elsewhere.
The plan to nationalise power, rail, etc was just plain laughable.
Free broadband for all was just a pathetic policy.
Labour voters could see through Corbyn’s bullshit, and gave up on him on mass.
But if you want to kid yourself that Brexit was the only reason they lost, then you carry on my friend, But you couldn’t possibly be more deluded.

So traditional labour voters have voted for a continuation of austerity deliberately? They truly are lost. For starters the Tory manifesto didn’t add up either and a long way further than Labour’s too.

 

[Grendel]

I think a lot of traditional labour voters who voted Tory hold the same opinions and values as me so I don’t actually think they do believe different to me on a lot of the issues of not most of the issues that this country face. They have however allowed themselves to be blindsided on a single issue and manipulated by someone who shares non of their values and opinions into voting for them. Sorry but that’s the very definition of a pleb.

How many times have you voted Tory Tony?

Who did you vote for this time?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

You make it sound like there's only one newspaper. Mirror, Guardian and Independent have all given Corbyn support.
All these papers have carried columnists and stories that have attacked Johnson's character - whether it be on his changeable support for Brexit, his personal life or other issues. All have made hay with relationship with his brother and tried to flame the story about that American girlfriend for example.
I fail to see how Corbyn and the people around him are so naive about how modern vote-gathering works (rightly or wrongly that's the "game"). It is about sound bytes etc.
People aren't going to sit there trying to figure out nuances.

Where did you decide my post wasn't a criticism of Corbyn's approach to such answers?

 

[skybluetony176]

How many times have you voted Tory Tony?

Who did you vote for this time?

Bluekip Brexit cult Tory? Never. The Tories no longer contains any of the values of the Tory Party I voted for. Apparent Marxist communist Corbyn is more traditional Tory than the current “Tory” Party.

 

[Grendel]

Bluekip Brexit cult Tory? Never. The Tories no longer contains any of the values of the Tory Party I voted for. Apparent Marxist communist Corbyn is more traditional Tory than the current “Tory” Party.

So when did you last vote Tory Tony? Who did you vote on Thursday

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

Losers protesting in London last night/today about Boris haha what a bunch of sad wankers

 

[skybluetony176]

So when did you last vote Tory Tony? Who did you vote on Thursday

If you’ve got a point make it. This game playing trap laying is below your IQ level. Apparently.

 

[tisza]

Where did you decide my post wasn't a criticism of Corbyn's approach to such answers?

Reread I wasn't addressing your comment on Corbyn's approach. More a continuation of my earlier post on the different media approaches of Corbyn and Johnson.

 

[tisza]

Bluekip Brexit cult Tory? Never. The Tories no longer contains any of the values of the Tory Party I voted for. Apparent Marxist communist Corbyn is more traditional Tory than the current “Tory” Party.

I think there are plenty of traditional Tories in there just drowned out by the noisy ERG clique much the same as more moderate parts of the Labour Party have been by overshadowed noisier groups in their party.

 

[Astute]

I believed in him because I was sick of champagne politics by people that didn’t give a fuck. He had a different style - a compassion that you rarely see. I make no apologies for supporting and defending him. Was that naive in the cold light of day? Yes because sadly that style didn’t work for the people of this country. We clearly are not ready to be led by decent human beings - ideology is too important a thing.

But the next leader should beware. The lies will follow in the same way. Just take a look at this....

View attachment 13678

What hadn't been seen before?

Corbyn was so bad that someone as bad as Boris got back in by saying nothing that mattered. Keeping Corbyn as leader handed it to the Tories. And people like yourself refused to listen until the very end. If you hadn't defended his first defeat that you tried to make sound like a victory we could have had someone in place that had a chance. But you and many others didn't want the truth to be heard.

Such is life.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Too late. Need to change your tune. Your messiah Corbyn is finished

Yawn criticised him most of the year but you know this.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

How about some of these Labour MPs who lost their seats in Leave areas stop blaming Corbyn and put their hands up and say "my fault I didn't follow my constituents wishes".
Corbyn is well-known for following his own views and defying the party whip in the past (and probably in the future) - so couldn't object to MPs doing what their constituents wanted.

Dennis Skinner did and lost after serving his seat for 49 years. Doesn’t matter because a charlatan used some sound bites

 

[Astute]

He wasn't electable because the press made it so. His big issue was he wasn't strong enough to stand up to it. That was his downfall. I didn't agree with all his policies but he's a principled man who deserves a lot of credit for not getting into the usual lies and deception common in politics - even though this was eventually to his detriment. Was destroyed by the press from day one and never really stood a chance. Was never really the right man for the job in all honesty, almost need him behind the scenes pulling the strings with a more media friendly face up front (without being cynical, probably need someone who can lie & deceive to Boris levels. Someone to appeal to the majority who don't look beyond soundbites and headlines - they are the ones that win elections, not the smaller minority who actually care about substance, regardless of political persuasion).

Correct. He wasn't strong enough. The rest was just excuses.

The press have always destroyed those not strong enough. Even Maggie nearly got destroyed by the press. She was even given speech lessons to lower her tone of voice as the press hammered her for it.

 

[Ian1779]

What hadn't been seen before?

Corbyn was so bad that someone as bad as Boris got back in by saying nothing that mattered. Keeping Corbyn as leader handed it to the Tories. And people like yourself refused to listen until the very end. If you hadn't defended his first defeat that you tried to make sound like a victory we could have had someone in place that had a chance. But you and many others didn't want the truth to be heard.

Such is life.

This is where you are wrong. Boris’ message did matter to the electorate (no matter how much we do or do not like it)
If you had got your wish then a new leader with the same PV message would have been defeated.

In a way you should be happy - Corbyn is gone, a new leader won’t have to deal with the Brexit conundrum. They can focus on progressive policy and thrive later down the line, or we can go for Blair 2.0 and spend a generation more in the wilderness.