General Election 2019 thread (20 Viewers)

[Astute]

I think Miliband may have removed from her cabinet position because of comments that were unacceptable.

But she has also had occasions where she has legitimate cause because she has been harassed and abused because of both her her gender and race. That doesn't make her comments OK, because she is essentially tarring everyone with the same brush. This wouldn't be acceptable if a white person was attacked by a black person and made comments towards black people because of it, so it shouldn't be acceptable the other way round either. There are times where she has seemingly bought into the lazy stereotype of men and white male privilege especially.

That is the point. She lets everyone know when someone else says something. But she holds a position where she should be above it.

 

---

[Deleted member 5849]

And what else? There is much more than left, right and middle. That is just a base.

I'll bore you and me if I list every nuance. We both know that they share a left leaning ideology that's more in harmony than most (not all) in the parliamentary party and, in answer to your question, that is it.

 

[Grendel]

Putting people first is a pretty generic phrase, used for all kinds of things. Putting pensioners first, putting students first, putting the ill and the disabled first - all shorthand used for saying that their interests will be looked after.

It's a poor example here, tbh.

so if you substituted the word black for white and Farage was on the picture it’s fine - wow

 

[Astute]

Putting people first is a pretty generic phrase, used for all kinds of things. Putting pensioners first, putting students first, putting the ill and the disabled first - all shorthand used for saying that their interests will be looked after.

It's a poor example here, tbh.

Not really. She will put black and ethnic people first. That is her statement. Could you imagine if Boris said he will put white people first? He would be hounded out of the country.

Everyone should be equal. Everyone should be treated the same. Nothing to do with gender or colour of skin. Nothing to do with sexual orientation. Giving preference to anyone causes problems.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

so if you substituted the word black for white and Farage was on the picture it’s fine - wow

That shows a remarkable lack of sensitivity for the subjugated position of Blacks, and the need for somebody to fight their corner in an increasingly intolerant country, in order to preserve a multicultural and diverse society of which we can all be proud. If Mr. Farage were to put such a poster up in Syria, say, then no I'd have no problem.

 

[Grendel]

That shows a remarkable lack of sensitivity for the subjugated position of Blacks, and the need for somebody to fight their corner in an increasingly intolerant country, in order to preserve a multicultural and diverse society of which we can all be proud. If Mr. Farage were to put such a poster up in Syria, say, then no I'd have no problem.

How is focussing on the actual colour of the person showing diversity exactly?

How does sending your child to a private school and sharing a classroom with Michael Portillo have any resonance with her black community?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

How is focussing on the actual colour of the person showing diversity exactly?

How does sending your child to a private school and sharing a classroom with Michael Portillo have any resonance with her black community?

I don't agree with her sending her child to private school, but that's not relevant to that poster and is shifting things on.

Mind you, would I expect anything else...?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

So what is the similar ideology and what was her previous position in the shadow cabinet?

Left. Socialist. In simplified terms more traditional Labour than New Labour

She was Shadow Health Minister under Miliband.

Surely someone as capable, talented and independent minded as yourself is capable of finding information by yourself? Or are you the type that gets everyone else to do the work, you take the credit and the money and then when it comes to actually being accountable for anything blame someone else?

 

[Grendel]

I don't agree with her sending her child to private school, but that's not relevant to that poster and is shifting things on.

Mind you, would I expect anything else...?

Abbot is a racist and divisive - she’s an odious individual - keep digging

 

[Astute]

That shows a remarkable lack of sensitivity for the subjugated position of Blacks, and the need for somebody to fight their corner in an increasingly intolerant country, in order to preserve a multicultural and diverse society of which we can all be proud. If Mr. Farage were to put such a poster up in Syria, say, then no I'd have no problem.

Increasingly intolerant country? We are moving forward constantly. You will always have some racists. And we shouldn't make excuses for any of them. This includes racism against white people.

If it shouldn't be said to a black person it also shouldn't be said to a white person. It shouldn't be one rule for one. We are all equal and as long as it is allowed like you want or say you don't have a problem with it will cause problems.

 

[Grendel]

Left. Socialist. In simplified terms more traditional Labour than New Labour

She was Shadow Health Minister under Miliband.

Surely someone as capable, talented and independent minded as yourself is capable of finding information by yourself? Or are you the type that gets everyone else to do the work, you take the credit and the money and then when it comes to actually being accountable for anything blame someone else?

She was sacked and out of the shadow cabinet for 3 years

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Abbot is a racist and divisive - she’s an odious individual - keep digging

So I did a bit of searching... and the only thing I can find is Diane Abbot saying it is a fake poster. Here's the actual poster.

 

[shmmeee]

Increasingly intolerant country? We are moving forward constantly. You will always have some racists. And we shouldn't make excuses for any of them. This includes racism against white people.

If it shouldn't be said to a black person it also shouldn't be said to a white person. It shouldn't be one rule for one. We are all equal and as long as it is allowed like you want or say you don't have a problem with it will cause problems.

I agree entirely and do not like the particular brand of social justice activism that produces tweets like Abbott’s,

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I agree that is unacceptable. Maybe her constituency has a high percentage of black voters but that is still unacceptable. A white person doing the same in very white areas like the Home Counties or South West would be unacceptable.

EDIT: Just seen the thing about it being fake

 

[shmmeee]

So I did a bit of searching... and the only thing I can find is Diane Abbot saying it is a fake poster. Here's the actual poster.

What I said above aside. You’ve got to wonder why someone has taken the time to Photoshop that image.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

She was sacked and out of the shadow cabinet for 3 years

Trying to change the question again I see. So what if she was sacked (which I said she had been) and out of cabinet for three years - she was in a shadow cabinet and thus quite high profile in the Labour party before Corbyn. That was the point. It's not like she was brought in out of nowhere by Corbyn

 

[Deleted member 5849]

What I said above aside. You’ve got to wonder why someone has taken the time to Photoshop that image.

I assume it's a quote somewhere, and that's why I'd love to know the context of said quote. I have no issue at all with people 'putting LGBT rights first' 'putting the elderly first' etc. as that's just shorthand. If you're talking to a Black organisation, it would not be unreasonable any more than 'putting the people of Sheffield first'.

But... by doing said mash-up, it kind of removes any credibility for the actual argument, whatever it may be (and one where I'm the minority, it seems )

 

[Grendel]

Trying to change the question again I see. So what if she was sacked (which I said she had been) and out of cabinet for three years - she was in a shadow cabinet and thus quite high profile in the Labour party before Corbyn. That was the point. It's not like she was brought in out of nowhere by Corbyn

I’m not changing anything. Chris Grayling has been in the cabinet - I’d suggest after 3 years in exile due to his utter failings at every post he did - and he was bought back out from the cold by a former friend who used to shag him on camper van holidays then questions would be asked

 

[shmmeee]

Trying to change the question again I see. So what if she was sacked (which I said she had been) and out of cabinet for three years - she was in a shadow cabinet and thus quite high profile in the Labour party before Corbyn. That was the point. It's not like she was brought in out of nowhere by Corbyn

I suppose she was sleeping with the Oxford admissions team when she got accepted when black women rarely did, or the entire electorate when she became the first black female MP.

Tired misogyny.

 

[Astute]

What I said above aside. You’ve got to wonder why someone has taken the time to Photoshop that image.

Welcome to the bullshit world of politics these days.

 

[Astute]

Trying to change the question again I see. So what if she was sacked (which I said she had been) and out of cabinet for three years - she was in a shadow cabinet and thus quite high profile in the Labour party before Corbyn. That was the point. It's not like she was brought in out of nowhere by Corbyn

Brought in from the cold?

Her comments have continued. Why doesn't Corbyn do anything to stop them?

 

[shmmeee]

I assume it's a quote somewhere, and that's why I'd love to know the context of said quote. I have no issue at all with people 'putting LGBT rights first' 'putting the elderly first' etc. as that's just shorthand. If you're talking to a Black organisation, it would not be unreasonable any more than 'putting the people of Sheffield first'.

But... by doing said mash-up, it kind of removes any credibility for the actual argument, whatever it may be (and one where I'm the minority, it seems )

MEh. I don’t like the rhetoric but I can see how it’s different from “traditional” racism (for want of a better phrase)

edit: to be clear talking about the “white people” comments not the black community one.

 

[shmmeee]

To be honest if you want a left wing female black Labour front bencher to vilify I don’t understand why Dawn “gay giraffes” Butler gets let off.

 

[Astute]

To be honest if you want a left wing female black Labour front bencher to vilify I don’t understand why Dawn “gay giraffes” Butler gets let off.

What has she done? What has she said?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Brought in from the cold?

Her comments have continued. Why doesn't Corbyn do anything to stop them?

I didn't use that term, Grendel did. As for why doesn't Corbyn do anything - he should. But we all know if he can shy away from conflict he will.

 

[shmmeee]

What has she done? What has she said?

Accused Jamie Oliver of cultural appropriation for making jerk rice, said 90% of giraffes are gay, spending expenses on whirlpool baths.

Actually got her mixed up with Kate Osamor who had the drug dealer son.

 

[Grendel]

I didn't use that term, Grendel did. As for why doesn't Corbyn do anything - he should. But we all know if he can shy away from conflict he will.

Chris Grayling

 

[Astute]

I didn't use that term, Grendel did. As for why doesn't Corbyn do anything - he should. But we all know if he can shy away from conflict he will.

I used the term.

Corbyn needs to get a grip. Otherwise this crap will continue.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I’m not changing anything. Chris Grayling has been in the cabinet - I’d suggest after 3 years in exile due to his utter failings at every post he did - and he was bought back out from the cold by a former friend who used to shag him on camper van holidays then questions would be asked

Deflection using hypothetical scenario. It's not like Diane Abbott was hiding in a cupboard during that time - she was still very prominent in the party, parliament and in the media during that time. People will have others they feel they work well with and have a similar mindset to. I believe this to be the predominant reason Corbyn picked her not because of their previous relationship.

Or are you suggesting she blackmailed him so she didn't reveal details?

 

[Grendel]

Deflection using hypothetical scenario. It's not like Diane Abbott was hiding in a cupboard during that time - she was still very prominent in the party, parliament and in the media during that time. People will have others they feel they work well with and have a similar mindset to. I believe this to be the predominant reason Corbyn picked her not because of their previous relationship.

Or are you suggesting she blackmailed him so she didn't reveal details?

How is it a deflection to substitute Abbot with Failing Grayling?

be honest deflection is an excuse to be unable to answer the question posed.

you started this drivel by suggesting Boris Johnson has sexual impropriety and get Corbyn is worse as he’s given a former shag partner a job in his senior team and has had as many wives as Bakayoko has had league goals this season

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Brought in from the cold?

I used the term..

Why did you put the question mark then? Only makes sense if you're questioning my use of the term.

I think you'd seen Grendel's post and used the term mistakenly, which is fine. I was just pointing out I hadn't used that term

 

[Astute]

Why did you put the question mark then? Only makes sense if you're questioning my use of the term.

I think you'd seen Grendel's post and used the term mistakenly, which is fine. I was just pointing out I hadn't used that term

You asked the question where had she come from. I asked you the question if she had come in from the cold. Question mark was because I asked you the question.

Simple really.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

How is it a deflection to substitute Abbot with Failing Grayling?

be honest deflection is an excuse to be unable to answer the question posed.

you started this drivel by suggesting Boris Johnson has sexual impropriety and get Corbyn is worse as he’s given a former shag partner a job in his senior team and has had as many wives as Bakayoko has had league goals this season

Because you're making an assumption Abbott only got the job because of that relationship, despite the fact she wasstill prominent throughout her non Shadow cabinet years and has clearly had a similar thinking to Corbyn more to the left which in a Labour party that had moved to the right and had a large number of Blairites were rather thin on the ground. As for why you then bring in Grayling in some hypothetical scenario fuck only knows.

Why has Gove get brought back by May after getting rid of him? Ditto Raab? Why was Alexander kept on despite so many gaffes (and ones with much worse consequences)? Seems like May's a bit of a nympho!

As I said before the question was not one of a comparison between Corbyn and Alexander. It was Dom asking if he could trust Alexander on Brexit so I brought up just a few of the people who he'd betrayed the trust of. Tell me where in that I said Corbyn was more trustworthy on the subject?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

You asked the question where had she come from. I asked you the question if she had come in from the cold. Question mark was because I asked you the question.

Simple really.

Just co-incidence you used the same term as Grendel then?

She wasn't out in the cold. She may have been loitering in the corner but she was always in the room.

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

I didn't use that term, Grendel did. As for why doesn't Corbyn do anything - he should. But we all know if he can shy away from conflict he will.

Except when he and his lapdog are sucking up to people hell bent on conflict with the country he wants to govern. He’s happy to support that conflict.