General Election 2019 thread (22 Viewers)

rob9872 · Nov 12, 2019

The whole notion that him pulling candidates helps Brexit is laughable. They've pulled them in seats they were unlikely to make a difference to, yet we'll have one in Warwick & Leam. Last time Matt Western (Labour & remain) won with 25k votes. Chris White (Tory - not sure if leave or remain) lost with 24k, minority parties polled small. Not sure of the turnout, but suspect if anything this will be lower.

As we know the general public are not too bright and some will undoubtedly vote Brexit, without any realistic hope of them winning, Sure Labour might lose a few similar votes to the Lib Dums, but without a huge swing required, a Brexit candidate will only harm the chances of putting the new Conservative candidate (who is a confirmed leaver) into power allowing MW to retain his seat. It's ludicrous and these are the type of seats Brexit should have pulled, not ones with a 20k Tory majority.

SkyBlueDom26 · Nov 12, 2019

WATCH: Caroline Lucas - 'If the Lib Dems don't give a f**k what 17.4m people said, just say so'

Sly digs starting already, so much for the remain alliance... always knew Caroline was a brexiteer deep down:smuggrin::smuggrin::smuggrin:

shmmeee · Nov 12, 2019

SkyBlueDom26 said:
WATCH: Caroline Lucas - 'If the Lib Dems don't give a f**k what 17.4m people said, just say so'

Sly digs starting already, so much for the remain alliance... always knew Caroline was a brexiteer deep down:smuggrin::smuggrin::smuggrin:

Green position has always been second referendum, but they get let off cos they’re the cuddly Greens. Lucas went on a tour of Leave areas after the first one to talk to people. Only “remain” leader to do so I think (OK not technically leader but let’s be honest who TF are Sian Berry and the other bloke?)

Lib Dem’s being exposed for what they are. Think it’s pure fantasy but saw someone speculate they want to be kingmakers to the Tories and push for a second ref that way. Can’t see the Tories agreeing but it wouldn’t be the first time Johnson has u-turned.

shmmeee · Nov 12, 2019

skybluetony176 said:
How is the Brexit Party going to take remainer votes?

Theory goes there’s a non insignificant chunk of Labour Leave voters that won’t vote Tory but might vote Farage.

I can’t see it myself. I think remaining Labour Leavers are lexiters and “shake things up a bit”ers and “fuck Cameron”ers. Who aren’t Brexit ultras.

SkyBlueDom26 · Nov 12, 2019

shmmeee said:
Think it’s pure fantasy but saw someone speculate they want to be kingmakers to the Tories and push for a second ref that way. Can’t see the Tories agreeing but it wouldn’t be the first time Johnson has u-turned.

You make stuff up as you go along, oh yeahhh Boris is really going to want a second referendum... deluded

Liquid Gold · Nov 12, 2019

SkyBlueDom26 said:
You make stuff up as you go along, oh yeahhh Boris is really going to want a second referendum... deluded

Johnson wants to be prime minister, he doesn't give a shit about anything else. Brexit included.

Deleted member 5849 · Nov 12, 2019

Liquid Gold said:
Johnson wants to be prime minister, he doesn't give a shit about anything else. Brexit included.

Yup. He's already shown himself happy to dump the DUP when they were of no use to him, he'd do the same for all manner of other people too.

Grendel · Nov 12, 2019

Deleted member 5849 said:
Yup. He's already shown himself happy to dump the DUP when they were of no use to him, he'd do the same for all manner of other people too.

So he’s the same as all leaders then - shock

shmmeee · Nov 12, 2019

SkyBlueDom26 said:
You make stuff up as you go along, oh yeahhh Boris is really going to want a second referendum... deluded

I know reading is hard but at least make an effort. I said it’s pure fantasy.

shmmeee · Nov 12, 2019

Deleted member 5849 said:
Yup. He's already shown himself happy to dump the DUP when they were of no use to him, he'd do the same for all manner of other people too.

That was the reasoning of the person I saw. Flaw in that is you can only dump someone if you’ve got someone else to run to. Boris has purged all the moderate MPs and even if he’s not a Brexit Ultra, his PCP will be stuffed with them and they’ll just kick him out and install Rees Mogg or something.

rob9872 · Nov 12, 2019

shmmeee said:
That was the reasoning of the person I saw. Flaw in that is you can only dump someone if you’ve got someone else to run to. Boris has purged all the moderate MPs and even if he’s not a Brexit Ultra, his PCP will be stuffed with them and they’ll just kick him out and install Rees Mogg or something.

That wont happen. JRM is actually very astute and would make a much better PM. Regardless of whether you agree with him or not, I'm sure you'll concede that he's very much the politician and he's unwavering in his beliefs. However he's unelectable as a Lord Haw Haw type caricature of himself.

I believe Labour suffered similarly for too long with Kinnock who was similar (although of course opposite lol!) but you understand what I mean. Boris for all his fumbling and mistake laden clumsiness that forms part of his persona, has character and charisma and that (again whether you like him or not) makes him electable. Blair had personality, Brown didn't. Thatcher had personality, Major didn't. Who can forget Clegg mania but he had no party. Labour chose the wrong Milliband and they could still be suffering a little bit similarly in the black and white option they have in Corbyn.

Astute · Nov 12, 2019

chiefdave said:
Bloke on this morning. Has spent £10K so far and hasn’t even had a call to say he’s no longer standing. Found out off the TV.

Certainly more money than sense.

SkyBlueCharlie9 · Nov 12, 2019

Astute said:
In what way?

And 1m won't go that far these days. Everything will come down to what the message is and how it is put across. We could do without like what Abbott did a couple of days ago when she twisted the truth si it ended up as a lie everyone could see. Good for the voters that will vote Labour whatever. But for those who are undecided it puts more doubts into their minds.

Another dig at Diane Abbott, with no context provided!

Astute · Nov 12, 2019

rob9872 said:
The whole notion that him pulling candidates helps Brexit is laughable. They've pulled them in seats they were unlikely to make a difference to, yet we'll have one in Warwick & Leam. Last time Matt Western (Labour & remain) won with 25k votes. Chris White (Tory - not sure if leave or remain) lost with 24k, minority parties polled small. Not sure of the turnout, but suspect if anything this will be lower.

As we know the general public are not too bright and some will undoubtedly vote Brexit, without any realistic hope of them winning, Sure Labour might lose a few similar votes to the Lib Dums, but without a huge swing required, a Brexit candidate will only harm the chances of putting the new Conservative candidate (who is a confirmed leaver) into power allowing MW to retain his seat. It's ludicrous and these are the type of seats Brexit should have pulled, not ones with a 20k Tory majority.

You seem to be missing the point. Many will vote Tory or Labour because it is the party they always vote for. And whatever happens they wouldn't vote for the other one. But Labour voters who want out have the choice of voting Brexit party.

SkyBlueCharlie9 · Nov 12, 2019

SkyBlueDom26 said:
WATCH: Caroline Lucas - 'If the Lib Dems don't give a f**k what 17.4m people said, just say so'

Sly digs starting already, so much for the remain alliance... always knew Caroline was a brexiteer deep down:smuggrin::smuggrin::smuggrin:

There we go with the mysoginistic comments again. Do you have any respect for any woman politician?

Astute · Nov 12, 2019

shmmeee said:
Green position has always been second referendum, but they get let off cos they’re the cuddly Greens. Lucas went on a tour of Leave areas after the first one to talk to people. Only “remain” leader to do so I think (OK not technically leader but let’s be honest who TF are Sian Berry and the other bloke?)

Lib Dem’s being exposed for what they are. Think it’s pure fantasy but saw someone speculate they want to be kingmakers to the Tories and push for a second ref that way. Can’t see the Tories agreeing but it wouldn’t be the first time Johnson has u-turned.

Greens say they want another referendum. They have not said they will cancel Brexit like the Lib Dems have. The Greens are in the middle of the Lib Dems and Labour. It took ages for the official party line from Labour.

SkyBlueDom26 · Nov 12, 2019

SkyBlueCharlie9 said:
Do you have any respect for any woman politician?

Where is anything to do with her being a Woman? Its to do with the Remain alliance

Astute · Nov 12, 2019

SkyBlueCharlie9 said:
Another dig at Diane Abbott, with no context provided!

You want proof?

I don't have to keep posting links. It is only when questioned like now or someone says it isn't true. There is enough bullshit on here already.

'Misleading' Abbott tweet used in Labour campaign

Astute · Nov 12, 2019

SkyBlueCharlie9 said:
There we go with the mysoginistic comments again. Do you have any respect for any woman politician?

Should women be left alone because they are women? They should all get the same treatment if they deserve it. Most of it is pointed at Boris, Corbyn and Farage. And rightly so.

Grendel · Nov 12, 2019

SkyBlueCharlie9 said:
There we go with the mysoginistic comments again. Do you have any respect for any woman politician?

I have huge respect for Lucianna Berger who bravely stood against abuse and bullying in her organisation and saw no support from her bosses

westcountry_skyblue · Nov 12, 2019

I see Thornberry could be ousted in her seat by the lib dums,Mind you her and hubby are millionaires so won’t have to look for work will she? Oh the Irony.
She’s had a car crash interview on GMB and says she hopes to leave the EU.
You couldn’t make it up,She’s doing the torys job for them!!!

SkyBlueCharlie9 · Nov 12, 2019

OK she been an idiot and she helps no-one sending out crap like that. Its the relentless picking on her and other women MP's from a few on here and especially by the right wing media, that I question. Diane Abbott, Jo Swinson and Nicola Sturgeon are disproportionately criticised and mocked for their politics and often for the way they look and what they wear. I am trying to teach my kids respect and tolerance towards others and to respect people's views - just sad that people take it way too far. I'm not saying the left wing media are totally clean in this respect (Anne Widdicombe) but they are generally more tolerant of difference in society than nasty Tory's and the fruitcakes in The Brexit Party.

rob9872 · Nov 12, 2019

Astute said:
You seem to be missing the point. Many will vote Tory or Labour because it is the party they always vote for. And whatever happens they wouldn't vote for the other one. But Labour voters who want out have the choice of voting Brexit party.

I'm not missing the point at all! I agree many will vote like that, but some won't. Let's not pretend we know what every voters intentions are or indeed if they will vote, but I think in a marginal seat putting a Brexit candidate in is Brexit suicide. Time will tell, I hope that I'm wrong!

rob9872 · Nov 12, 2019

SkyBlueCharlie9 said:
OK she been an idiot and she helps no-one sending out crap like that. Its the relentless picking on her and other women MP's from a few on here and especially by the right wing media, that I question. Diane Abbott, Jo Swinson and Nicola Sturgeon are disproportionately criticised and mocked for their politics and often for the way they look and what they wear. I am trying to teach my kids respect and tolerance towards others and to respect people's views - just sad that people take it way too far. I'm not saying the left wing media are totally clean in this respect (Anne Widdicombe) but they are generally more tolerant of difference in society than nasty Tory's and the fruitcakes in The Brexit Party.

Sturgeon in particular deserves all she gets and more! Horrible wretched thing and it's nothing to do with her gender, in fact only equalled really by her predecessor Salmond, also abhorrent and yes he was a man!

Abbott it can go too far, she doesn't help herself and tbh much of it is quite funny (I particularly loved the 190 at the darts). Swinson only been newsworthy recently and trying hard to raise her profile will undoubtedly bring both sides of the coin. She'll soon fade into the background post election.

rob9872 · Nov 12, 2019

Grendel said:
I have huge respect for Lucianna Berger who bravely stood against abuse and bullying in her organisation and saw no support from her bosses

I don't.
Not personal to her, but to all MP's elected under a party that then leave the party, should trigger a by-election. If she did that and was re-elected as an independent I'd have enormous respect for her. Umunna, Soubry all the same. Hanging on only for personal gain. I believe almost everyone votes for the party not the person in their constituency.

SkyBlueDom26 · Nov 12, 2019

SkyBlueCharlie9 said:
I'm not saying the left wing media are totally clean in this respect (Anne Widdicombe) but they are generally more tolerant of difference in society than nasty Tory's and the fruitcakes in The Brexit Party.

Just not true is it

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Nov 12, 2019

skybluetony176 said:
They should start up a breakaway Brexit Party. Something catchy like the Provisional Brexit Party or the Continuity Brexit Party

English Brexit Tea Party

SkyBlueDom26 · Nov 12, 2019

Lib Dem MP Cuka Umunna says "an approach was made" through the Unite to Remain organisation about whether Labour would be interested in an alliance with other parties that support another EU referendum.

Mr Umunna - a former Labour politician, of course - tells Politics Live it was "totally dismissed out of hand".

He emphasised the alliances that had been made with the Green Party and Plaid Cymru.

The Women's Equality Party has agreed to stand aside in the Cities of London and Westminster seat to give Mr Umunna a clearer run at things.

shmmeee · Nov 12, 2019

Astute said:
You seem to be missing the point. Many will vote Tory or Labour because it is the party they always vote for. And whatever happens they wouldn't vote for the other one. But Labour voters who want out have the choice of voting Brexit party.

Yep. Ditto the Libs for pissed off Tories and Corbynphobics.

I will say you seem to be quite dismissive of people with clear left or right wing politics. Many people have thought about how they’d like the world organised and vote accordingly as such they’d never switch from right to left or visa versa.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Nov 12, 2019

rob9872 said:
The whole notion that him pulling candidates helps Brexit is laughable. They've pulled them in seats they were unlikely to make a difference to, yet we'll have one in Warwick & Leam. Last time Matt Western (Labour & remain) won with 25k votes. Chris White (Tory - not sure if leave or remain) lost with 24k, minority parties polled small. Not sure of the turnout, but suspect if anything this will be lower.

As we know the general public are not too bright and some will undoubtedly vote Brexit, without any realistic hope of them winning, Sure Labour might lose a few similar votes to the Lib Dums, but without a huge swing required, a Brexit candidate will only harm the chances of putting the new Conservative candidate (who is a confirmed leaver) into power allowing MW to retain his seat. It's ludicrous and these are the type of seats Brexit should have pulled, not ones with a 20k Tory majority.

I do agree the strategy seems a bit odd in the respect that it on the whole gives the Tories a free run at many seats they'd win anyway.

Although there will be some marginals they're pulling out of the main ones they should have looked to pull out of IF their intention is to help the Tories are ones that Lab/LD etc won by smaller majorities. They should have said "any seat with a required swing of say 5% either way we'll stand down in" if they wanted to make a difference.

Not to be cynical about Farage, but it does seem like he's trying to reduce Brexit Ltd expenses in places he thinks they might not get the deposit back.....

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Nov 12, 2019

SkyBlueDom26 said:
Lib Dem MP Cuka Umunna says "an approach was made" through the Unite to Remain organisation about whether Labour would be interested in an alliance with other parties that support another EU referendum.

Mr Umunna - a former Labour politician, of course - tells Politics Live it was "totally dismissed out of hand".

He emphasised the alliances that had been made with the Green Party and Plaid Cymru.

The Women's Equality Party has agreed to stand aside in the Cities of London and Westminster seat to give Mr Umunna a clearer run at things.

Women standing aside to let a man run things......doesn't send out a particularly great message.

Although it does tell us who Chukka will be joining next on his political party tour.

shmmeee · Nov 12, 2019

rob9872 said:
I don't.
Not personal to her, but to all MP's elected under a party that then leave the party, should trigger a by-election. If she did that and was re-elected as an independent I'd have enormous respect for her. Umunna, Soubry all the same. Hanging on only for personal gain. I believe almost everyone votes for the party not the person in their constituency.

Then we need to move away from constituencies to a national PR vote. Currently the party is a total irrelevance democratically. You vote for the person.

I agree that most think like you and act as if we have a national system, in which case we should probably actually have one.

shmmeee · Nov 12, 2019

SkyBlueDom26 said:
Just not true is it

You don’t think the Guardian with it’s “is rice racist” crap isn’t more tolerant of diversity than say The Sun??

shmmeee · Nov 12, 2019

Astute said:
Should women be left alone because they are women? They should all get the same treatment if they deserve it. Most of it is pointed at Boris, Corbyn and Farage. And rightly so.

There’s a difference between leaving women alone entirely and only making digs based on their sex. Look at the comments Joy gets on the football side. All “I would/wouldn’t shag her” and shit about handbags. You don’t see that about Fisher. That’s misogyny. Same as I can criticise a black person without being racist.

skybluetony176 · Nov 12, 2019

I see Nigel is moaning that the Tories haven’t offered to stand aside for the Brexit Party in any seats.

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