General Election 2019 thread (47 Viewers)

[clint van damme]

I’d be more concerned that the last chancellor got some his deficit/spending calculations out by more than £20bn - you know the guy that was actually in charge of the money - with a crack team of financial experts at his disposal.

Yet you’re all beside yourself because Diane messed up a few police numbers for an interview.

He got his HS2 figures wrong by tens of billions as well.

 

---

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Should I just blindly vote Labour as I always have?

The Lib Dems would have got my vote if they hadn't jumped into bed with the Tories.

Although I'm probably a bit sad I go through the manifesto and look at all the policies and give each one a score out of 5. I then put them into categories like economy/jobs, education, healthcare, governance, sport/culture etc and these also get weighted out of 5 so things like economy, education and healthcare are given greater importance than things like arts etc.

The leader and candidate also get scores but they're actually weighted very low. I then look to see how each party scores.

Last time the LD actually came top in my analysis, which came as a slight surprise to me. I expected Greens but while they had a number of top ranked policies they also had a lot of very low scoring ones that I considered just silly which brought their score down. I was surprised because UKIP managed to outscore the Tories for me, and were only just beaten by Lab because they had so many middle scoring policies.

 

[Liquid Gold]

Although I'm probably a bit sad I go through the manifesto and look at all the policies and give each one a score out of 5. I then put them into categories like economy/jobs, education, healthcare, governance, sport/culture etc and these also get weighted out of 5 so things like economy, education and healthcare are given greater importance than things like arts etc.

The leader and candidate also get scores but they're actually weighted very low. I then look to see how each party scores.

Last time the LD actually came top in my analysis, which came as a slight surprise to me. I expected Greens but while they had a number of top ranked policies they also had a lot of very low scoring ones that I considered just silly which brought their score down. I was surprised because UKIP managed to outscore the Tories for me, and were only just beaten by Lab because they had so many middle scoring policies.

That's actually a really interesting system. Did you vote LD in the end?

 

[Philosoraptor]

First bow tie of the election!

 

[skybluetony176]

Out of pure curiosity I thought I’d check the Brexit parties website to see what they have to say about the up and coming general election and nothing. It’s like a just giving page, hand over money for this, hand over money for that. Join the Brexit club for £100 a month!

 

[westcountry_skyblue]

Why do others try and make out it was the fault of the Tories and Labour was innocent of everything?

A bit like when you said Labour had nothing to do with privatisation of the NHS. I showed you the evidence. Why didn't you make a comment on the subject?

You would think a general election is close.......

It’s never Labours fault,Like when they go on about zero hours contracts,It suits some people and Labour invented it!!!

 

[shmmeee]

Although I'm probably a bit sad I go through the manifesto and look at all the policies and give each one a score out of 5. I then put them into categories like economy/jobs, education, healthcare, governance, sport/culture etc and these also get weighted out of 5 so things like economy, education and healthcare are given greater importance than things like arts etc.

The leader and candidate also get scores but they're actually weighted very low. I then look to see how each party scores.

Last time the LD actually came top in my analysis, which came as a slight surprise to me. I expected Greens but while they had a number of top ranked policies they also had a lot of very low scoring ones that I considered just silly which brought their score down. I was surprised because UKIP managed to outscore the Tories for me, and were only just beaten by Lab because they had so many middle scoring policies.

Greens policy making process really produces some shockers.

UKIP has a lot of ex “Blue Labour” voters so that doesn’t surprise me too much. It was always a unholy alliance of weirdo Tories like Farage and old school socially conservative Labour types.

BXP being Farages baby will be more to the weirdo side I expect.

 

[shmmeee]

It’s never Labours fault,Like when they go on about zero hours contracts,It suits some people and Labour invented it!!!

This should be a laugh.

Source for Labour “inventing” ZHC?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

That's actually a really interesting system. Did you vote LD in the end?

I did. I have to admit that being in a Labour stronghold did mean I didn't need to consider a tactical vote so I went with the analysis. I do also try to take into account what manifesto's DON'T say. That was why the Con one last time didn't score well - it was just obvious that stuff that was being put down as job creation/economic growth was predominantly going to benefit the rich.

I'd be a bit pushed to do so this time as although I do believe remain would be the best thing for the country I don't think it should just be done without renewed consent of the public (although if the LD got a majority I think you could argue that would constitute consent!)

Again I'd expect the Greens to score well for me but they always ruin it with some mad 'right on' shit. They've already done the 'Ministry for Sanctuary'....

One thing I can be sure of is the leaders will be getting low scores all round!

 

[skybluetony176]

This should be a laugh.

Source for Labour “inventing” ZHC?

I seem to remember Blair promising to end them and then clearly never did so if Labour did, it must predate the Blair years.

 

[shmmeee]

I seem to remember Blair promising to end them and then clearly never did so if Labour did, it must predate the Blair years.

They predate the Labour Party. Dockers in the 1800s were brought in with no guarantee of work each day.

 

[Astute]

not saying you should... but stop making it all about Corbyn and look at the policies that fit best with your qualities.

All about Corbyn?

Open your eyes. It is all about Boris being shit and vote Labour. All the lies/untruths are out already. All I want is a truthful debate. But there us a lack of truth and no debate.

Look at the last day.

Labour never sold off social housing. Yes they did at a much faster rate than the Tories.

Bliar didn't privatise the NHS. Yes he did. He speeded the process up by far.

Labour don't put the national debt up. Yes they do each time. When Bliar took over last time it went from the equivalent of 7.8 billion a year to over 140 billion a year.

Corbyn isn't the person to take us forward. The same people that have admitted so now say get him in.

Yes shoot Boris down. But don't walk blindly into this.

 

[Astute]

I'm convinced the tories will win without a workable majority and we'll be no further forward

I can't see it being good whatever the result. All I can see is another shitfest on Friday the 13th.

 

[Astute]

I did say I was a dreamer. Most of them are lobby fodder anyway. But I would like a house filled with intelligent thoughtful MPs of all sides.

You would struggle to do that even if it was a 1 bed house.

 

[Astute]

He got his HS2 figures wrong by tens of billions as well.

And the rest. Doubling it brought it nowhere near the proper cost. So they started ripping off property owners to try and get some back.

Shows why you can't trust a Tory.

 

[Astute]

Although I'm probably a bit sad I go through the manifesto and look at all the policies and give each one a score out of 5. I then put them into categories like economy/jobs, education, healthcare, governance, sport/culture etc and these also get weighted out of 5 so things like economy, education and healthcare are given greater importance than things like arts etc.

The leader and candidate also get scores but they're actually weighted very low. I then look to see how each party scores.

Last time the LD actually came top in my analysis, which came as a slight surprise to me. I expected Greens but while they had a number of top ranked policies they also had a lot of very low scoring ones that I considered just silly which brought their score down. I was surprised because UKIP managed to outscore the Tories for me, and were only just beaten by Lab because they had so many middle scoring policies.

But what use is a manifesto if you don't trust the person putting it forward?

 

[Liquid Gold]

All about Corbyn?

Open your eyes. It is all about Boris being shit and vote Labour. All the lies/untruths are out already. All I want is a truthful debate. But there us a lack of truth and no debate.

Look at the last day.

Labour never sold off social housing. Yes they did at a much faster rate than the Tories.

Bliar didn't privatise the NHS. Yes he did. He speeded the process up by far.

Labour don't put the national debt up. Yes they do each time. When Bliar took over last time it went from the equivalent of 7.8 billion a year to over 140 billion a year.

Corbyn isn't the person to take us forward. The same people that have admitted so now say get him in.

Yes shoot Boris down. But don't walk blindly into this.

Why you so keep to say Labour did x under Blair? We can all see they're a completely different party under Corbyn. May as well be saying the Tories did x under Peel

 

[Astute]

Why you so keep to say Labour did x under Blair? We can all see they're a completely different party under Corbyn. May as well be saying the Tories did x under Peel

Have you seen me give any sort of praise to the Tories? Tell me who does deserve praise.

But strangely enough nobody has a go at me for saying anything about the Tories. But if I dare point out false information about Labour.......

 

[Liquid Gold]

Have you seen me give any sort of praise to the Tories? Tell me who does deserve praise.

But strangely enough nobody has a go at me for saying anything about the Tories. But if I dare point out false information about Labour.......

???
I say - why are you not acknowledging that Labour have changed?
You hear - Why are you praising Tories?
???

 

[Ian1779]

All about Corbyn?

Open your eyes. It is all about Boris being shit and vote Labour. All the lies/untruths are out already. All I want is a truthful debate. But there us a lack of truth and no debate.

Look at the last day.

Labour never sold off social housing. Yes they did at a much faster rate than the Tories.

Bliar didn't privatise the NHS. Yes he did. He speeded the process up by far.

Labour don't put the national debt up. Yes they do each time. When Bliar took over last time it went from the equivalent of 7.8 billion a year to over 140 billion a year.

Corbyn isn't the person to take us forward. The same people that have admitted so now say get him in.

Yes shoot Boris down. But don't walk blindly into this.

You ask for truthful debate - yet you know facts can be stretched, manipulated, presented on all manner of ways. Look at what shmeeee was saying on debt levels by government - and you were happy to dismiss his facts.

What you’ve said about Labour is true - but this is not the same party anymore. You know that their won’t be privatisation and council house sell offs under this version of the Party.. I’m assuming you have gripes with this.

As I and others have said before - present another leader with the same domestic vision and commitment to the changes that have been talked about and they will get my support - Corbyn will not be around forever. But take the party back to the neoliberal nonsense and we are dead.

 

[Astute]

???
I say - why are you not acknowledging that Labour have changed?
You hear - Why are you praising Tories?
???

What are you going on about?

 

[Astute]

You ask for truthful debate - yet you know facts can be stretched, manipulated, presented on all manner of ways. Look at what shmeeee was saying on debt levels by government - and you were happy to dismiss his facts.

What you’ve said about Labour is true - but this is not the same party anymore. You know that their won’t be privatisation and council house sell offs under this version of the Party.. I’m assuming you have gripes with this.

As I and others have said before - present another leader with the same domestic vision and commitment to the changes that have been talked about and they will get my support - Corbyn will not be around forever. But take the party back to the neoliberal nonsense and we are dead.

Dismiss his facts? I dismissed what he said with facts. Did you notice nobody questioned the facts I linked to?

But no. Let's question them when not put in front of everyone.

So what facts am I wrong about?

 

[Astute]

I have been having a think. Yes my head hurts.

I have decided to vote with my hopes and not with my fears. Otherwise I wouldn't have voted.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Classic compassionate Conservatives.



We had one of the slowest recoveries post crash thanks to the Tory mismanagement of the economy IIRC.

I’m not sure what the conflict between saying Labour didn’t cause the sub-prime crisis and the Tories didn’t handle the aftermath well is TBH, can you expand?

It was a worldwide financial ‘crisis’....labour had left nothing in reserve to deal with it and as I’ve said if there hadn’t been attempts to control public expenditure (which was by then out of control - see Liam Byrne ‘there’s no money left’) you could forget borrowing at sensible rates. This would had led to immediate and far deeper cuts (see Ireland and Greece)

what did you expect them to do in 2010 ? If you say spend their way out of it...I’ll give up now ; )

 

[shmmeee]

Dismiss his facts? I dismissed what he said with facts. Did you notice nobody questioned the facts I linked to?

But no. Let's question them when not put in front of everyone.

So what facts am I wrong about?

Come on. You posted random one off articles. I gave you the full data from the last several decades. I also gave you the data on social housing showing that Labour sold at a lower rate than the Tories yet here you are a few posts later claiming you’ve proved the opposite.

 

[shmmeee]

It was a worldwide financial ‘crisis’....labour had left nothing in reserve to deal with it and as I’ve said if there hadn’t been attempts to control public expenditure (which was by then out of control - see Liam Byrne ‘there’s no money left’) you could forget borrowing at sensible rates. This would had led to immediate and far deeper cuts (see Ireland and Greece)

what did you expect them to do in 2010 ? If you say spend their way out of it...I’ll give up now ; )

Carry on the sensible Keynesian policies that Brown and Darling started that had lead to the economy growing again and not throw that growth into reverse with ideological cuts.

Frankly I’d have preferred the bailouts to go to homeowners rather than the banks at the time. Giving working people money always leads to growth. Markets only work with customers. Government spending creates growth. If you want to reduce borrowing quickly it should’ve been done through targeted tax rises aimed at wealth.

We had a credit crunch remember. Banks weren’t lending and consumers weren’t spending. That’s what needed support. A bunch of teachers and nurses didn’t cause the GFC.

And I’ve addressed Byrnes note. Pure political propaganda from the Tories. I’m surprised to see a sensible poster like yourself bring it up.

Look, we obviously have different views on the economy. You won’t convince me that trickle down economics works better than trickle up is the long and the short of it and I suspect I won’t convince you of the opposite. That’s why we vote the way we do.

 

[Astute]

Come on. You posted random one off articles. I gave you the full data from the last several decades. I also gave you the data on social housing showing that Labour sold at a lower rate than the Tories yet here you are a few posts later claiming you’ve proved the opposite.

Bring up data that is unbiased then. Not just an opinion piece like you usually find.

What is telling is that nobody has tried to dispute the evidence I have linked. Why don't you quote the evidence I have put up and say what us wrong with it? Then I know which part you are saying about instead of the normal of having to try and defend myself for no reason.

 

[shmmeee]

Bring up data that is unbiased then. Not just an opinion piece like you usually find.

What is telling is that nobody has tried to dispute the evidence I have linked. Why don't you quote the evidence I have put up and say what us wrong with it? Then I know which part you are saying about instead of the normal of having to try and defend myself for no reason.

The ONS is biased now?

Ive heard it all.

And I’ll do that when you do for me

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

But what use is a manifesto if you don't trust the person putting it forward?

That is always a risk and some might argue rather hopeful or even naive of me. In mine I'd like to think it is accounted for slightly with scores for the leader/candidate but again you could quite like those individuals but felt the party as a whole was untrustworthy.

There never will be a foolproof way to decide how to vote. But it can add an extra level of thinking into it and bring about realisations I wouldn't have had I just gone with overall gut instinct of the policies.

However, it can take a while to do so finding that time esp if you're a busy family man may well make it impossible.

 

[Astute]

Carry on the sensible Keynesian policies that Brown and Darling started that had lead to the economy growing again and not throw that growth into reverse with ideological cuts.

Frankly I’d have preferred the bailouts to go to homeowners rather than the banks at the time. Giving working people money always leads to growth. Markets only work with customers. Government spending creates growth. If you want to reduce borrowing quickly it should’ve been done through targeted tax rises aimed at wealth.

We had a credit crunch remember. Banks weren’t lending and consumers weren’t spending. That’s what needed support. A bunch of teachers and nurses didn’t cause the GFC.

And I’ve addressed Byrnes note. Pure political propaganda from the Tories. I’m surprised to see a sensible poster like yourself bring it up.

Look, we obviously have different views on the economy. You won’t convince me that trickle down economics works better than trickle up is the long and the short of it and I suspect I won’t convince you of the opposite. That’s why we vote the way we do.

Here we go again. You call the Brown policies sensible. Yet if I bring up anything wrong I will be picking on Brown. It is though he was perfect.

 

[Astute]

The ONS is biased now?

Ive heard it all.

And I’ll do that when you do for me

Do what?

Have asked you to show what you are going on about. But you won't. You just continue to make more comments.

So what evidence that I linked was wrong?

 

[shmmeee]

Here we go again. You call the Brown policies sensible. Yet if I bring up anything wrong I will be picking on Brown. It is though he was perfect.

...

...Brown ...
wasn’t perfect ...
He wasn’t perfect by any stretch...

...

You were saying?

 

[CCFCSteve]

Carry on the sensible Keynesian policies that Brown and Darling started that had lead to the economy growing again and not throw that growth into reverse with ideological cuts.

Frankly I’d have preferred the bailouts to go to homeowners rather than the banks at the time. Giving working people money always leads to growth. Markets only work with customers. Government spending creates growth. If you want to reduce borrowing quickly it should’ve been done through targeted tax rises aimed at wealth.

And I’ve addressed Byrnes note. Pure political propaganda from the Tories. I’m surprised to see a sensible poster like yourself bring it up.

G7 growth rates compared to UK (I suppose the G7s performance was the Tories fault)

UK economic growth within the G7

Also, was Keynes around when there was a global financial crisis caused by a sub prime lending which nearly bust a significant
number of banks (that we’re holding all of our money) ?!

ps As I mentioned earlier investing in infrastructure projects etc is sensible during a normal recession. I also mentioned the fact that if you are willing to encourage significant borrowing during recession, how can you condone significant borrowing during strong growth periods ?! When would you ever pay anything back ?!

 

[shmmeee]

Do what?

Have asked you to show what you are going on about. But you won't. You just continue to make more comments.

So what evidence that I linked was wrong?

Literally posted graphs from the ONS in my replies dude. Try harder.

 

[Astute]

...



...

You were saying?

I was saying to show what evidence I came out with was wrong. And I say it yet again.

You just make comments and accusations though.