General Election (22 Viewers)

Captain Dart · Jun 28, 2017

One minute there is outrage about spending £1Bn on N.I the next there is outrage about not spending £5Bn on public service workers and increasing their future pension entitlements.
If money is to be spent I say use it to build houses, roads & hospitals and restore the bursary for nurses to encourage better UK recruitment.

Brylowes · Jun 28, 2017

Captain Dart said:
One minute there is outrage about spending £1Bn on N.I the next there is outrage about not spending £5Bn on public service workers and increasing their future pension entitlements.
If money is to be spent I say use it to build houses, roads & hospitals and restore the bursary for nurses to encourage better UK recruitment.

The money to NI is an outrage, had the Torys won a majority would this money be
Winging its way to NI as we speak, it's an outrage because it's a bribe for votes.
Everybody knows it's a bribe, whatever anyone's political allegiance 'they should
Be outraged by this.

Captain Dart · Jun 28, 2017

Brylowes said:
The money to NI is an outrage, had the Torys won a majority would this money be
Winging its way to NI as we speak, it's an outrage because it's a bribe for votes.
Everybody knows it's a bribe, whatever anyone's political allegiance 'they should
Be outraged by this.

So I'm sure you understand that the Labour party manifesto was one big electoral bribe.

Ian1779 · Jun 28, 2017

Captain Dart said:
So I'm sure you understand that the Labour party manifesto was one big electoral bribe.

Deflector shields set to maximum Captain...

Brylowes · Jun 28, 2017

Captain Dart said:
So I'm sure you understand that the Labour party manifesto was one big electoral bribe.

Im not even going to bother engaging with you, as I know from your posting history that
You are far more savvy than that, therefore you know you are talking shit:emoji_smirk:

chiefdave · Jun 28, 2017

Captain Dart said:
So I'm sure you understand that the Labour party manifesto was one big electoral bribe.

On that basis every manifest by every political party is a bribe.

The deal with the DUP was very different. It was a direct payment in return for votes.

It also clearly breaches the Good Friday agreement, which potentially has very serious consequences.

“whatever choice is freely exercised by a majority of the people of Northern Ireland, the power of the sovereign government with jurisdiction there shall be exercised with rigorous impartiality on behalf of all the people in the diversity of their identities and traditions and shall be founded on the principles of full respect for, and equality of, civil, political, social and cultural rights, of freedom from discrimination for all citizens, and of parity of esteem and of just and equal treatment for the identity, ethos, and aspirations of both communities” (Good Friday Agreement – Constitutional Isssues, 1998).

The £2bn, which it has already been said won't be a final payment, should mean £70bn in extra spending according to the Barnett Formula but that is also being ignored which could also have repercussions.

All for Theresa May and the Conservatives to desperately cling on to power.

dutchman · Jun 28, 2017

Sick Boy said:
I've never been asked my doctor? I was referring more with regards to A&E.

So how does your doctor know what treatment you've received in A&E?

Nick · Jun 28, 2017

So they have actively blocked the chances of emergency services etc getting pay rises?

Liquid Gold · Jun 28, 2017

Nick said:
So they have actively blocked the chances of emergency services etc getting pay rises?

Brylowes · Jun 29, 2017

Nick said:
So they have actively blocked the chances of emergency services etc getting pay rises?

There's been a public sector pay freeze capped at 1% for the last 7 years, following
The disastrous results in the GE May implied she had heard the electorate and would
Put a halt to it.
She then did what she does best 'she u-turned " following discussions with Chancellor
Phil Hammond she caved in, meaning public sector workers face another 4 years of
'In real terms" having a pay cut every year as a reward for their hard work.

Sick Boy · Jun 29, 2017

dutchman said:
So how does your doctor know what treatment you've received in A&E?

I went to A&E the other month and wasn't asked for details of my doctor. Regardless, it wouldn't be difficult to do a quick search for a nearby doctor and provide false details.

Sick Boy · Jun 29, 2017

Nick said:
So they have actively blocked the chances of emergency services etc getting pay rises?

No doubt it was cheered by their MPs as well, despicable people.

clint van damme · Jun 29, 2017

Captain Dart said:
So I'm sure you understand that the Labour party manifesto was one big electoral bribe.

there's a difference between putting policies in your manifesto to win votes and funnelling money which you previously stated wasn't available into NI so a minority party can prop up your government.

Terry Gibson's perm · Jun 29, 2017

Sick Boy said:
No doubt it was cheered by their MPs as well, despicable people.

It was they are a disgusting group of people and next time our local mp knocks on the door I will let my wife get at him. The money that May has given out to prop up her failing government isn't hers to give out its ours but the people had the chance to rid ourselves of the greedy fat pigs but instead chose to allow the disgusting Hunt to continue his dismantling of the NHS.

SIR ERNIE · Jun 29, 2017

clint van damme said:
there's a difference between putting policies in your manifesto to win votes and funnelling money which you previously stated wasn't available into NI so a minority party can prop up your government.

Was Comrade Corbyn's offer to write off student debt at a cost to the taxpayer of £30bn in the Labour manifesto?

Or did he throw it into the ring a few days before the election, post-manifesto and uncosted, as a bribe to win young votes?

lifeskyblue · Jun 29, 2017

SIR ERNIE said:
Was Comrade Corbyn's offer to write off student debt at a cost to the taxpayer of £30bn in the Labour manifesto?

Or did he throw it into the ring a few days before the election, post-manifesto and uncosted, as a bribe to win young votes?

You had a chance to vote for it or against it. With the £1billion + to the DUP you have no say whatsoever. That is the crucial difference in a democracy.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Captain Dart · Jun 29, 2017

clint van damme said:
there's a difference between putting policies in your manifesto to win votes and funnelling money which you previously stated wasn't available into NI so a minority party can prop up your government.

Absolutely, vote bribery will destroy the country's economy and compromising with a minority party to form a government is necessary as the largest party is constitutionally obliged to try and form a government, pity it cost so much but rock & a hard place, Labour couldn't form a government.

SIR ERNIE · Jun 29, 2017

lifeskyblue said:
You had a chance to vote for it or against it. With the £1billion + to the DUP you have no say whatsoever. That is the crucial difference in a democracy.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So, was the £30bn expenditure written into the Labour manifesto and fully costed?

clint van damme · Jun 29, 2017

SIR ERNIE said:
Was Comrade Corbyn's offer to write off student debt at a cost to the taxpayer of £30bn in the Labour manifesto?

Or did he throw it into the ring a few days before the election, post-manifesto and uncosted, as a bribe to win young votes?

all manifestos are bribes going by your logic. This isn't an offer to the electorate it's a deliberate change of policy to cling to number 10.

chiefdave · Jun 29, 2017

SIR ERNIE said:
Was Comrade Corbyn's offer to write off student debt at a cost to the taxpayer of £30bn in the Labour manifesto?

What do you think of the Tories selling off the student debt book at a fraction of its value?

chiefdave · Jun 29, 2017

SIR ERNIE said:
So, was the £30bn expenditure written into the Labour manifesto and fully costed?

How would it be expenditure. Were they going to hand over more money to the students who hadn't repaid their loans?

SIR ERNIE · Jun 29, 2017

clint van damme said:
all manifestos are bribes going by your logic. This isn't an offer to the electorate it's a deliberate change of policy to cling to number 10.

Are you saying that the £30bn expenditure wasn't written into the Labour manifesto and fully costed?

chiefdave · Jun 29, 2017

Terry Gibson's perm said:
It was they are a disgusting group of people and next time our local mp knocks on the door I will let my wife get at him. The money that May has given out to prop up her failing government isn't hers to give out its ours but the people had the chance to rid ourselves of the greedy fat pigs but instead chose to allow the disgusting Hunt to continue his dismantling of the NHS.

The cheering was absolutely disgusting. Didn't take long after the praise being given after the terror attacks and Grenfell for the Tories to revert to type.

Follows the news a few days ago that the children's ward at St John's Hospital in Livingston is to close for the summer as they can't get enough staff in. A combination of low wages and EU workers not wanting to come in following Brexit. Won't be the last place to suffer that fate.

clint van damme · Jun 29, 2017

SIR ERNIE said:
Are you saying that the £30bn expenditure wasn't written into the Labour manifesto and fully costed?

it was just under 6 billion paid for by the increase in corporation tax. You probably got the 30 million figure from the daily mail.

But just to be clear, as you seem to be struggling, whether you agree with it or not:

We'll scrap tuiton fees and pay for it by raising corporation tax - Policy (as laid out in manifesto)

We can't form a government, what will it take for your 10 MPs to prop us up, 1 billion, OK then - not policy, wasn't in manifesto, just a desperate attempt to cling to power.

SIR ERNIE · Jun 29, 2017

clint van damme said:
it was just under 6 billion paid for by the increase in corporation tax. You probably got the 30 million figure from the daily mail.

But just to be clear, as you seem to be struggling, whether you agree with it or not:

We'll scrap tuiton fees and pay for it by raising corporation tax - Policy (as laid out in manifesto)

We can't form a government, what will it take for your 10 MPs to prop us up, 1 billion, OK then - not policy, wasn't in manifesto, just a desperate attempt to cling to power.

It's clearly you who's struggling here, you're confused.

No one apart from you is talking about tuition fees. The £30bn offer relates to wiping out historical student loan debt.

Was that £30bn expenditure written into the Labour manifesto and fully costed?

chiefdave · Jun 29, 2017

SIR ERNIE said:
No one apart from you is talking about tuition fees. The £30bn offer relates to wiping out historical student debt.

Was that £30bn expenditure written into the Labour manifesto and fully costed?

How is it £30bn expenditure if its historical debt?

clint van damme · Jun 29, 2017

SIR ERNIE said:
It's clearly you who's struggling here, you're confused.

No one apart from you is talking about tuition fees. The £30bn offer relates to wiping out historical student loan debt.

Was that £30bn expenditure written into the Labour manifesto and fully costed?

Labour didn't say it would write off historical debt as part of it's manifesto. It said they were abolish tuition fees from Autumn 2017.
Corbyn said he would like to abolish historical debt.

But good attempt at deflecting from the original point about the tories getting into bed with the DUP thanks to a 1 billion (for starters) bung. But as I said, one is policy, 1 is a clearly a bribe.

Captain Dart · Jun 29, 2017

SIR ERNIE said:
So, was the £30bn expenditure written into the Labour manifesto and fully costed?

There was a guy on radio this morning who reckoned they'd raise £19bn from corporation tax & £6bn from increasing highest rate of income tax, however these assumptions fly in the face of actual experience, they are flawed because they are based on the premise that company & high earners behaviour will not change in response to taxation changes, they will react & the take would be far lower than predicted.

clint van damme · Jun 29, 2017

Captain Dart said:
There was a guy on radio this morning who reckoned they'd raise £19bn from corporation tax & £6bn from increasing highest rate of income tax, however these assumptions fly in the face of actual experience, they are flawed because they are based on the premise that company & high earners behaviour will not change in response to taxation changes, they will react & the take would be far lower than predicted.

so why are there are countries with higher corporation tax than the UK whose economies are performing much better than ours?
Why are so many banks looking to move to Germany?

SIR ERNIE · Jun 29, 2017

clint van damme said:
Labour didn't say it would write off historical debt as part of it's manifesto. It said they were abolish tuition fees from Autumn 2017.
Corbyn said he would like to abolish historical debt.

But good attempt at deflecting from the original point about the tories getting into bed with the DUP thanks to a 1 billion (for starters) bung. But as I said, one is policy, 1 is a clearly a bribe.

Nope, not deflecting at all, merely pointing out the rank hypocrisy of you and your mates:

On the one hand we have a £1bn deal by struck by the largest party to fulfil their constitutional obligation.

-You say that’s a disgusting bribe.

On the other hand we have an un-costed £30bn ‘offer’ from Corbyn a week before an election, clearly designed to win more young votes:

‘Hey you’re a 25 year old with a £20k debt, if I get to be PM I’ll wipe that debt out for you’

-But that’s not a bribe.

Come off it, you really don’t have any grounds for whingeing about the DUP deal other than it keeps Labour in opposition a bit longer do you?

SIR ERNIE · Jun 29, 2017

Captain Dart said:
There was a guy on radio this morning who reckoned they'd raise £19bn from corporation tax & £6bn from increasing highest rate of income tax, however these assumptions fly in the face of actual experience, they are flawed because they are based on the premise that company & high earners behaviour will not change in response to taxation changes, they will react & the take would be far lower than predicted.

Precisely.

chiefdave · Jun 29, 2017

But again on your logic every single thing in every parties manifesto or mentioned before an election is a bribe. That's clearly not the case.

The deal with the DUP is very simple. They have been given £2bn, with it seems more to follow, solely on the basis that they vote in line with the Conservatives. That is cash for votes, clearly a bribe. If its not a bribe then presumably we can not give that money to Northern Ireland and the DUP will still vote the same way. That's good news as it will save us some money and mean they Good Friday agreement isn't being breached.

chiefdave · Jun 29, 2017

Captain Dart said:
There was a guy on radio

Who was it?

clint van damme · Jun 29, 2017

SIR ERNIE said:
Nope, not deflecting at all, merely pointing out the rank hypocrisy of you and your mates:

On the one hand we have a £1bn deal by struck by the largest party to fulfil their constitutional obligation.

-You say that’s a disgusting bribe.

On the other hand we have an un-costed £30bn ‘offer’ from Corbyn a week before an election, clearly designed to win more young votes:

‘Hey you’re a 25 year old with a £20k debt, if I get to be PM I’ll wipe that debt out for you’

-But that’s not a bribe.

Come off it, you really don’t have any grounds for whingeing about the DUP deal other than it keeps Labour in opposition a bit longer do you?

A) it wasn't uncosted, you might think it was realistic, you might think it was undeliverable, fair enough, but it wasn't uncosted.

B) A policy isn't a bribe, same as if the tories offered tax cuts in their manifesto, not a bribe.

I'm moaning about the DUP deal because it gives to much leverage to a bunch of swivel eyed creationists and takes the per capita spend well above any other area of the UK, and it won't be the end of it.

chiefdave · Jun 29, 2017

Those that don't have a problem with the deal with the DUP would you also be fine if Labour had got the most votes and did a deal with Sinn Fein involving £2bn of taxpayers money?

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