General Election (24 Viewers)

[Sick Boy]

The Tories are running scared and will do anything to avoid another election. Their 'born to rule' attitude they have stinks, as well.

 

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[hill83]

I know a guy who runs a very successful business in a service sector who voted leave expecting leave to mean remaining in the single market. His business relies heavily on employing EU migrants. He found himself in a position in the general election where he couldn't vote Tory because they aren't willing to guarantee the rights of EU workers currently living in the UK but also couldn't vote labour because his business relies on zero hours contracts and couldn't afford the hike in the minimum wage that labour had pledged. I wonder how many more voters found themselves in this political wilderness and didn't vote?

Sounds like a bit of a plonker.

Edit: Actually, is this even true? Apologies in advance if I'm wrong, but you have got to be making this up.

 

[Grendel]

The Tories are running scared and will do anything to avoid another election. Their 'born to rule' attitude they have stinks, as well.

Can you explain how there can be another election?

 

[Sick Boy]

Can you explain how there can be another election?

The Tory and DUP deal won't last and no confidence will be called in the current government.

I appreciate that you are one of May's biggest fans, but she won't last until the end of the summer.

 

[Grendel]

The Tory and DUP deal won't last and no confidence will be called in the current government.

I appreciate that you are one of May's biggest fans, but she won't last until the end of the summer.

You seem rather ignorant on British legislation.

 

[Sick Boy]

£20 charity bet says that there is another election before the end of 2017.

 

[Grendel]

£20 charity bet says that there is another election before the end of 2017.

But then you are saying Mr Corbyn is a liar.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

I know that we are not going to see it the same way.

But the way I see it is Labour should have won. Two elections ago the Tories had to jump into bed with the Lib Dems. And that was with Labour having a leader that wasn't trusted by anyone. Brown couldn't even smile in a nice way. The Bliar days were over. He knew that so walked before he was pushed. So bye bye Brown......

So then we got Ed Miliband. Not much better than a wet fart. No charisma. No idea. But the Tories still only just crossed the line with a majority. Lots of Lib Dems had deserted their party for getting into bed with the Tories. They are not Tory voters. But we didn't have a leader to take advantage. Close call but the Tories scraped home.

So somehow we end up with Corbyn. He only got put forward at the last minute to make the leadership race look competitive. He was a 200/1 shot. But there was a call on the internet to pay £3 so you could vote him in. Corbyn becomes leader.

Labour support goes downhill after Corbyn becomes leader. But as the election comes closer reality hits home. And to help a lot of younger voters register and vote for Labour. But the Tories still nearly made the majority. There has been years of austerity which is the norm with a Tory government. They were ready for the taking. Labour wasn't ready with a strong leader yet again though.

I can't see this coalition working. May should walk. But if she does they will put someone in place that will do a better job. They will turn up next time on TV. They will put more effort in. They will have a manifesto that people will vote for. Whereas Labour will have Corbyn. He tried his best. But it only reduced the Tories seats by 12. Yet Corbyn celebrated a victory. I don't want a leader that celebrates losing. I want a leader that can celebrate a win.

What is needed is a leader like Starmer. Someone honest and likeable. Someone with a lot of experience in life. He didn't become an MP for the money. He is respected away from politics. No skeletons in the closet. Labour should get a landslide victory with him. A proper victory to celebrate.

I agree with some of what you say. But the £3/vote whilst flawed in some ways - for me it showed that people at the coalface want something different, the UKIP experience showed that too.
May's failure to achieve her objective of a landslide is down to everything hut strong, stable leadership - more about weak, nervous dithering changing stance according to the headlines & polls.
That £3/vote is much more palatable to me - the people at grassroots had more say in the choice...& when they were asked to, they backed him at the election. Much better than the unions choosing, or big business!
Starmer...no skeletons? Has anyone yet been able to open his closet enough to take a close look I wonder? Everyone has them imo. The media will go into overdrive whoever is labour leader to fund something!

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[Deleted member 5849]

I agree with most of what you are saying about tuition fees. I'd go further and say that free tuition for all would devalue having a degree as 'everyone' would have one. But my point was it's totally wrong and insulting to call it a bribe but allow policies directed at other age groups a free pass.

Disagree with the last point. If government funded the tuition costs they could have more control over universities then at present. It could mean they actually tighten up the criteria to study, make it harder to enter university, and encourage more work-based training for jobs such as electricians, plumbers etc.

Removing tuition fees could actually make a degree of more value.

 

[hill83]

Disagree with the last point. If government funded the tuition costs they could have more control over universities then at present. It could mean they actually tighten up the criteria to study, make it harder to enter university, and encourage more work-based training for jobs such as electricians, plumbers etc.

Removing tuition fees could actually make a degree of more value.

Interesting. Not thought of it like that.

 

[Sick Boy]

But then you are saying Mr Corbyn is a liar.

Are you going to accept or not?

 

[SkyblueBazza]

What makes you think Labour would win in a re-election?

Corbyn wasn't up against anyone or anything. He has already offered everything he can. The Tories have much more they can offer as they offered us nothing. They had a faceless leader that nobody would know if it wasn't for Brexit. There also isn't a massive amount of young voters ready to register so they can vote Labour this time.

There could be a fair few more prepared to vote Labour instead of a Tory party that is led by a weak, wavering in the wind wheatsheaf.
May came in styling her public approach on Maggie's. Obviously she can't cut it behind the scenes & there are a lot of quiet senior Tories out there atm deciding & plotting her inevitable fate & the course her replacement shall follow.
Yes the same is happening in the Labour Party but with nothing like the same urgency

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[Grendel]

Disagree with the last point. If government funded the tuition costs they could have more control over universities then at present. It could mean they actually tighten up the criteria to study, make it harder to enter university, and encourage more work-based training for jobs such as electricians, plumbers etc.

Removing tuition fees could actually make a degree of more value.

That's not the intention though the target is still to increase university attendances.

The promise in practice is undeliverable anyway. Also given the mess in Scotland it would have a negative impact on low earners attending. It was a big focus in Scotland.

 

[Captain Dart]

£20 charity bet says that there is another election before the end of 2017.

I doubt it, the government will limp on till the Tories think they can construct a winning position. I can't see them committing political suicide again!

 

[SkyblueBazza]

The Tories are becoming more and more toxic. As a lifelong Labour voter, you must be able to see how a Labour government is far better than the current Tory government? I understand your concerns on JC as I have had them myself but the current government has to be stopped before they completely destroy the country.

Ordinary people are getting tired of the lies and hypocrisy from those at the top and are demanding an alternative, Labour's day will soon come.

Some would argue the the Blair years WERE Labour's day...& look at some of the mess that left us with?

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[Grendel]

Are you going to accept or not?

I find it extraordinary you think the great leader would renage on his promise.

Do you think he's lying?

 

[skybluetony176]

Must have been lucky in business then.

TBF I think he's just called it completely wrong. I did point out to him at the time that there's no guarantee that out means remain in the single market but he was of the opinion that big business and banking would never allow a serving government to take us out. He didn't bargain on May. Even BoJo was talking in his article on the Monday after the referendum about free movement of people, free trade and passporting for the financial sectors remaining. Funnily enough this was when Gove turned on him.

I think we actually had a remainer running the leave campaign and the next PM who was really a leaver being in the remain camp. Both were trying to feather there own nests. Boris was appeasing the back benches ahead of a future leadership election and May was towing the leaders line hoping to retain her position in government after the referendum. With the referendum result going the way it did May was then given the opportunity to show her true colours and capitalise on the situation, whereas Boris showed his true colours and paid the price with Gove turning on him and losing the chance to run for leader. Funny how things work out.

 

[skybluetony176]

£20 charity bet says that there is another election before the end of 2017.

Careful. He'll accuse you of trying to extort money of him and block you.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Unless Mr Corbyn is lying there cannot be another election.

He has just said on TV he thinks later this year or early next year

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[Sick Boy]

I doubt it, the government will limp on till the Tories think they can construct a winning position. I can't see them committing political suicide again!

They seem to have a habit for it at the moment! I'm just trying to make a bet for charity, somebody is running scared though.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

I think if the Tories take an approach of soft brexit, even if that means remaining in the single market and remember to look after their core supporters with a different leader and a different approach it may well be a Tory landslide.

I know a guy who runs a very successful business in a service sector who voted leave expecting leave to mean remaining in the single market. His business relies heavily on employing EU migrants. He found himself in a position in the general election where he couldn't vote Tory because they aren't willing to guarantee the rights of EU workers currently living in the UK but also couldn't vote labour because his business relies on zero hours contracts and couldn't afford the hike in the minimum wage that labour had pledged. I wonder how many more voters found themselves in this political wilderness and didn't vote?

A guy that runs a successful business that you make sound as only successful because it imports cheaper workers from the EU. On that basis I could run it successfully. And he certainly didn't do his homework very well before casting his vote in the Referendum.


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[skybluetony176]

Sounds like a bit of a plonker.

Edit: Actually, is this even true? Apologies in advance if I'm wrong, but you have got to be making this up.

It is true. See my reply to astute where I explain his thinking. I think he knows he fucked up voting leave. Truth is that it's probably a good reflection of both campaigns. Tbf to Cameron he said plenty of times in the campaign what does out mean. Pointing out that it could mean a half in half out scenario much like Norway but the message largely got lost with bollocks about the EU stopping world wars and emergency budgets etc. There was always more than one connotation of what out meant. Problem was that no one on the out campaign was ever going to clarify what those connotations might me so long as they didn't have to and with the remain campaign being took over by the bollocks rather than the facts the out campaign got away with never being challenged on what out actually meant. Also for the record when UKIP first started making noises in the political world it was Norway that they were holding up as an example of how we would leave the EU. I don't think that changed until Cameron caught on to this long before the referendum (might have actually been when him and Davis were vying for the tory leadership) and spelt it out at which point UKIP changed tact, so when UKIP and Farage talk about out meaning out they are being very disingenuous because they've had more than one version of what out means themselves.

 

[skybluetony176]

But then you are saying Mr Corbyn is a liar.

Bottled it.

 

[Philosoraptor]

Not only do I think the Conservatives are running scared of another election. I think there is a consensus now that there will be another election by the end of the year.

I can see a awful lot of Labour MPs being deselected by their local party if the grassroots are given the chance to choose their own candidates.

Its as good as over now for many Labour MPs and councillors on the right of the party with this result.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Can you explain how there can be another election?

May called the GE because she said Britain needed certainty, stability and strong leadership following the EU referendum. We have now got none of those things.

Labour &, once the suits decide who they want to lead the party instead, Tory leaning media will constantly remind her of it...hounding her into resigning or calling another

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[SkyblueBazza]

You seem rather ignorant on British legislation.

Supercilious sod

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[skybluetony176]

But then you are saying Mr Corbyn is a liar.

You do know people aren't always liars. Sometimes they just get things wrong?

Plus you keep saying this instead of just spitting out why it would make him a liar.

Still playing your little games of asking a leading question so you can trip someone up and feel all clever about yourself.

Grow up and just spit it out.

 

[Grendel]

He has just said on TV he thinks later this year or early next year

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So he's done a u turn after 1 week. Power corrupts eh?

 

[Captain Dart]

Interesting. Not thought of it like that.

The UK Higher Education (HE) sector has undergone several major expansions over the past
50 years. Student volumes have more than quadrupled, rising from around 400,000 full time
HE students at UK institutions in the 1960s to over 2 million by 2007
Pre-1963 Participation Rate: 5%
2004 – Higher Education Act Participation Rate: 40%
2005 – The Rees Review Participation Rate: 42%
Higher degree participation requires higher taxes, I got a grant but when I went to Uni in the mid 70's participation rates were around 9%.

 

[Astute]

Tony....if May steps down like she should I can't see anything past Boris becoming their next leader.

He may be a buffoon. But a lot of the public like him.

 

[skybluetony176]

I find it extraordinary you think the great leader would renage on his promise.

Do you think he's lying?

Bottled it again.

 

[skybluetony176]

A guy that runs a successful business that you make sound as only successful because it imports cheaper workers from the EU. On that basis I could run it successfully. And he certainly didn't do his homework very well before casting his vote in the Referendum.


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He doesn't import cheaper workers. His business just so happens to be in a sector that over the years has had more and more trouble employing people from the UK for the wages that sector traditionally pays and that gap has been filled by EU workers who will.

No doubt he made a mistake with his referendum vote.

 

[skybluetony176]

Tony....if May steps down like she should I can't see anything past Boris becoming their next leader.

He may be a buffoon. But a lot of the public like him.

It is a bit hard to see past that scenario. What that means god only knows.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

What makes you think Labour would win in a re-election?

Corbyn wasn't up against anyone or anything. He has already offered everything he can. The Tories have much more they can offer as they offered us nothing. They had a faceless leader that nobody would know if it wasn't for Brexit. There also isn't a massive amount of young voters ready to register so they can vote Labour this time.

Because the cat is out of the bag. When the election was called Corbyn was down 20-25 points in the polls and in 6 weeks reduced that to 3. The polls also showed very large numbers of the public having a more positive opinion of him than before as they saw him campaigning on a national stage and liked it. Give this election another few weeks and we may well have won it.

Then we also have an electorate that by now is likely fed up of elections and referendums.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Said this in another thread but worth saying again on this one.

The only hope for the Tories is a new leader, a new manifesto that remembers their core values i.e. not shitting on the elderly, drop the out means out hard brexit bollocks and take a sensible approach to brexit that everyone can compromise enough to live with. She's split the country right down the middle with her rhetoric and become a PM of division. She's the poorest excuse for a PM I've ever seen.

As a regular Tory voter anything less than this and I'm afraid that I'll be voting labour again.

What are core Tory values, out of interest?

 

[Sick Boy]

So he's done a u turn after 1 week. Power corrupts eh?

Not going to accept then?