Cameron tried number 2 and returned with his tail between his legs.
That's why we had the referendum.
Oh and number 3 is impossible.
Some of us who voted for remain would have quite happily gone for the second option there, too.
It's what's utterly ridiculous. There are the hardcore on either end of the extreme, but most people are not *that* moved by whether we're in Europe or not.
Personally I think we'll see a second referendum when negotiations to leave don't go as hoped. It'd be appropriate then, too. The only issue would be, whether there'd be a rebellious 'fuck 'em' vote which'd say for us to bog off regardless, leaving us in an even worse position!
I do think the mood of the country will change, however, when the detail becomes apparent, as opposed to the wishy-washy populist phrases.
Agreed. I'd quite happily have voted to leave the EU and join the EEU (think that's correct) which is what Norway are a member of.
Which is likely to be the final outcome.
Lol.
Are you seriously telling me that the prospect of a government committed to raising business taxes, mass capital expenditure, borrowing against a GDP that's borrowed out would have zero impact on business confidence and the exchange?
As for rising costs - that's odd - you keep blathering on about debt levels not mattering and labours borrowing record but ignore the impact it always has on inflation, interest rates and costs. Inflation rose 20% above wage growth the last time we had a real labour government.
You are clueless.
But the job of the British Government is primarily to look after the interests of British Citizens wherever they may be in the world. So to protect the Brits living elsewhere in the EU - why would the Gov't throw away a bargaining chip like some gesture of goodwill which might come back to haunt them later in negotiations. You cannot give assurances o anyone for anything at this early stage without weakening your position. And you cannot negotiate if you have nothing to barter with!Perhaps they don't count as much! I think we're starting to get a good idea of the sub text to this argument from certain people.
Nothing is impossible...everyone and everything has a priceCameron tried number 2 and returned with his tail between his legs.
That's why we had the referendum.
Oh and number 3 is impossible.
Hopefully. Always thought leaving the EU and joining the EEU was a good idea years and years before brexit was even mentioned so we could take back control of things like fishing (because the EU regulations for fishing are completely mental and detrimental to fishing stocks rather than protect them like they're supposed to), farming etc. etc.
That was a single term administration that started life as a minority Government resultinginterest rates and costs. Inflation rose 20% above wage growth the last time we had a real labour government.
.
why do you keep going on about what would have happened? It's all conjecture.
Look at what has happened? An absolute mess created by politicians putting their own careers before the national interest.
Uncertainty surrounds almost every facet of British life from well being in old age to the economy to national security.
At some point you're going to have to stop worrying about what might have happened under Corbyn and face up to the mess we're in and the charlatans and opportunists we unfortunately have to rely on to get us out of it.
Do you and the others who are predominantly left wing believe in a proportional representation voting system or would rather have largest party leads?
But the job of the British Government is primarily to look after the interests of British Citizens wherever they may be in the world. So to protect the Brits living elsewhere in the EU - why would the Gov't throw away a bargaining chip like some gesture of goodwill which might come back to haunt them later in negotiations. You cannot give assurances o anyone for anything at this early stage without weakening your position. And you cannot negotiate if you have nothing to barter with!
Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
Do you and the others who are predominantly left wing believe in a proportional representation voting system or would rather have largest party leads?
If you move to Italy and haven't found employment, then you are not legally allowed to remain, I believe this is EU law for all states. However, due to Britain's own fault it has no way of knowing any of this due to not having residency cards. I had to get one in Italy and without that I wouldn't have been allowed access to free healthcare and other services.
Don't forget that I was the UK's own decision to allow such large migration from Eastern Europe when other countries enforced restrictions.
Do you and the others who are predominantly left wing believe in a proportional representation voting system or would rather have largest party leads?
I am not left wing, or wasn't until Britain shifted to right wing whilst I was living abroad. Proportional representation with a 5% hurdle to keep the nuts out seems to be very fair. It means more coalitions. Depending on the country, coalitions can be good because more viewpoints are represented and deals can be done before parliament starts again. Our state has just agreed a CDU ( conservative), FDP ( liberal ) and Green coalition. Much more representative than a single party and many arguments have been settled in the coalition contract.
I do get it. I know Brexit has a danger to collapse and be a complete load of shit. The thing is, it doesn't have to be that way if it is done properly. You may say you are worried about the future of your children, but the way most (not all) remainers come across on here is that you are just determined to see the project fail. You don't believe in it. You think we should be ruled by the EU for eternity and anything else is not an option.
I for one do not agree with the current way things are being done, but I also think soft Brexit is nonsense. It's in or out, none of this 'seeing each other' or 'mildly flirting' horseshit.
I know it is in a lot of trouble, it always has been because so many people could not accept the result. That is the first hurdle, which by the looks of the election we are slowly getting over, has been a massive issue. Now we are leaving and there is nothing anyone can do about it, the best thing to do is unite and come together and try and get the best future for everyone as possible.
That does mean putting us first if we have to, although it would be better if all parties could be mature and adult and mutually sort it. We might actually get somewhere that way. That includes Merkel who has been exempt from any criticism from most on here, which is completely ridiculous. With that I am not saying May doesn't deserve any because she is a fucking nightmare too.
Fantastic post. :emoji_clap::emoji_clap::emoji_clap:I'm like you, I don't really consider myself that left wing.
I just believe that the wealth needs to be distributed a little more evenly than it is now and that we need the safety net of the welfare state to protect the vulnerable.
The OBR have actually said that they think austerity has stifled growth.
Personally I don't think austerity is an economic policy but an ideology to keep the wealth grab going by the small percent of mega rich.
How can austerity be justified when working people are using food banks - to think that's wrong isn't left wing, it just humane.
Strange how last week there was no magic money tree but this week May has said austerity to end. It's been bullshit all along.
Personally I don'tso why expect the EU to do the same?
I'm like you, I don't really consider myself that left wing.
I just believe that the wealth needs to be distributed a little more evenly than it is now and that we need the safety net of the welfare state to protect the vulnerable.
The OBR have actually said that they think austerity has stifled growth.
Personally I don't think austerity is an economic policy but an ideology to keep the wealth grab going by the small percent of mega rich.
How can austerity be justified when working people are using food banks - to think that's wrong isn't left wing, it just humane.
Strange how last week there was no magic money tree but this week May has said austerity to end. It's been bullshit all along.
What is mega-rich nowadays though?I'm like you, I don't really consider myself that left wing.
I just believe that the wealth needs to be distributed a little more evenly than it is now and that we need the safety net of the welfare state to protect the vulnerable.
The OBR have actually said that they think austerity has stifled growth.
Personally I don't think austerity is an economic policy but an ideology to keep the wealth grab going by the small percent of mega rich.
How can austerity be justified when working people are using food banks - to think that's wrong isn't left wing, it just humane.
Strange how last week there was no magic money tree but this week May has said austerity to end. It's been bullshit all along.
Excellent post and highlights perfectly how far to the right the country has gone.
Merkel was against Brexit, but has accepted it. Merkel wants the negotiations to go ahead to reduce the uncertainty. Merkel is mature and sensible- yes I know she allowed refugees from a war zone to seek refuge.
Neither Merkel nor the EU is calling the shots in the UK. We're leaving.
The Conservative party cancelled ID cards, called a referendum, the consequences of which no one has yet properly understood - although many amazingly believe they know what they voted for, and called a snap election to significantly increase their majority whilst claiming there is no money tree and wanting to bring back grammar schools and fox hunting......
May could have added compulsory long bow training as in the Middle Ages - so far behind in her thinking....
You have accused people of bashing Britain and letting Merkel off the hook. Merkel is the "baddy" for the right wing media along with Juncker and the EU in general.
If you put the Mail down for a minute, you will see that the Tory government of the last few years is largely responsible for the way the country is run. The Merkel is blocking our citizens' rights crap is a classic deflection. The article 50 had not been triggered and Merkel said no deals before the procedure has started.
She is the blocker. No. If you went to a pub before opening time, the gaffer would say no service until opening time. He is blocking you from getting a pint, but you should know better than to ask before the pub is open. Same with the Brexit negotiations.
It's the other way round, Thatcher came along in 1979 and immediately set about destroyingIt's gone right due to the ridiculous policies and attitudes from the left.
A bit like turning yourself deliberately gay because you are sick of women.
It's the other way round, Thatcher came along in 1979 and immediately set about destroying
The trade unions, to accomplish this they would break the will of the working man.
Divide and Conquer, as a nation we quickly changed from a tolerant, compassionate, giving,
Community based society, to a selfish, uncaring, greedy, step on your neighbor society.
The Left no longer had an organised platform, this was her aim.
Her administration was based on fleecing the nation through privatisation, council house
Sales etc, to enable her to reward just enough people with tax cuts. This Country 'is now"
And will suffer her legacy for decades to come, for a start it convinced upcoming Tory
Politicians "and more importantly Tory Grandees" that the people at the bottom are so
Fragmented and weak you can treat them as you please.
What's changed is they got to greedy, the wealth grab has gone to far, we now live in a
Country where hard working families have to rely on working tax credits to pay their bills
And food banks to feed their kids. Basically people they once had convinced we're Part
of things, no longer feel the fruits of their labour, people are no longer convinced that
Large companies syphoning off all the profits, while leaving their employees on the
Breadline is "just the way it is.
Small to midsize companies 'that in many cases are struggling' to survive tend to pay fair
Wages and holiday and sickness packages, it's the large multinational corporations that
Do not, whilst amassing vast fortunes for billionaire and millionaire shareholders.
Banks were so deregulated they had free reign to do as they please, so they did and
Through their own greed almost bankrupt entire Countries.
People are waking up, people have had enough, it really does not have to be this way,
Hence the rise of the Left.
I'm sure a Left wing uprising in America isn't far away either, after all you can only push
People so far, the wealthiest country on earth with huge sections of its population living
In 3rd world conditions, something has to give.
So you are saying society is going more left?
I think if you look at the election of Trump and Brexit. Macron and Wilders coming close too. Also, in Sweden the SD (Swedish Democrats) are at least the second favourite party now and they were absolutely nowhere before. This all proves otherwise.
Before people start shouting that it's the media's fault, Sweden for example have very little national media. Certainly nothing right wing whatsoever. It isn't a conspiracy, people are sick of some of the lunatic policies that have been implemented by leftists.
Thing is, I don't think you can draw political lines with such a heavy pencil anymore,So you are saying society is going more left?
I think if you look at the election of Trump and Brexit. Macron and Wilders coming close too. Also, in Sweden the SD (Swedish Democrats) are at least the second favourite party now and they were absolutely nowhere before. This all proves otherwise.
Before people start shouting that it's the media's fault, Sweden for example have very little national media. Certainly nothing right wing whatsoever. It isn't a conspiracy, people are sick of some of the lunatic policies that have been implemented by leftists.
As is your elitist, poor hating, greed is good attitude to life.His whole distortion of history and facts is beyond belief to be honest.
So you are saying society is going more left?
I think if you look at the election of Trump and Brexit. Macron and Wilders coming close too. Also, in Sweden the SD (Swedish Democrats) are at least the second favourite party now and they were absolutely nowhere before. This all proves otherwise.
Before people start shouting that it's the media's fault, Sweden for example have very little national media. Certainly nothing right wing whatsoever. It isn't a conspiracy, people are sick of some of the lunatic policies that have been implemented by leftists.
Which why they voted against Le Pen, against May, against AFD,and will undoubetly try and stop Trump in his tracks. Oh... and bye bye UKIP....
Totally wrong.
Le Pen got closer than she should have done and got a lot of leftists quaking, as did Wilders. May still won (not that she is that right wing anyway). AFD is not done yet. Trump still won, and just because a bunch of cry babies are smashing up coffee shops doesn't mean anything. He still got into power, unbelievably.
UKIP did their job and that was it really.
Put the The Independent down.
Which why they voted against Le Pen, against May, against AFD,and will undoubetly try and stop Trump in his tracks. Oh... and bye bye UKIP....
Totally wrong.
Le Pen got closer than she should have done and got a lot of leftists quaking, as did Wilders.
The primary reason Le Pen got as close as she did to the presidency is that the left essentially split their vote between Melenchon and Hamon. If they had united for a common cause she would have never made it to the second round.
Don't agree with this at all. Le pen got into the last two of a french election and got a third of the vote. This was unthinkable before. 5 years of more EU might sway the french people more in 5 years time. Wilders shouldn't be even in a conversation in Dutch potlitcs but became a prominent figure. Why?
Trump won in Usa fair and square and if you ignore the press his voters actually like trump and what he is doing. The democrats need to name something and they seem blaming trump and Russia should do it.
As for Ukip, you say bye bye but they have single handedly got us an eu referendum and achieved a leave result. Of course they were going to have a come down. If they don't get the brexit we voted for Ukip will be bigger than it ever was before so it's best days may even lie ahead.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?